Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Shadowghost Theories

  • Member
    October 4

    KaiserSoSay said:

    You know, I always assumed darkness is associated to Nocturnal. It's strange to see the Khajiit associating darkness with Namira who's more commonly associated with all things icky yucky and creepy crawly.

    I haven't read much about the dro-m'Athra. What are they really? Mortal Khajiits 'corrupted' by the Void/Lorkhan?

    Apparently according to the UESP and the wiki, Namira is the Prince of the 'Ancient Darkness' which might be why she is associated with the Dro-m'athra, the edgy teens of Elswyer. 

  • Member
    October 4
    This makes me want to do a Shadowghost build
  • Member
    October 4

    KaiserSoSay said:

    You know, I always assumed darkness is associated to Nocturnal. It's strange to see the Khajiit associating darkness with Namira who's more commonly associated with all things icky yucky and creepy crawly.

    I haven't read much about the dro-m'Athra. What are they really? Mortal Khajiits 'corrupted' by the Void/Lorkhan?

    I haven't had the chance to run into the Dro-M'athra in the game yet but I did read a few tidbits on them that are interesting. I'll let you draw your own conclusions:

    Litter Mates of Darkness: https://www.imperial-library.info/content/litter-mates-darkness

    Trail and Tides Questions: https://www.imperial-library.info/content/trail-and-tide-questions

    Twilight rites and hymns: https://www.imperial-library.info/content/twilight-rites-and-hymns

    Words of clan mother Ahnissi to her favored daughter: https://www.imperial-library.info/content/words-clan-mother-ahnissi-her-favored-daughter

    There are some really fun and strange metaphysical things going on there. But yes, in essence, that's what the Dro-M'athra are. They are Khajit that were corrupted by Namiira and now dance the Doom Drum's dance (also known as the bent dance).

  • Member
    October 4

    Tanuki said:

    KaiserSoSay said:

    You know, I always assumed darkness is associated to Nocturnal. It's strange to see the Khajiit associating darkness with Namira who's more commonly associated with all things icky yucky and creepy crawly.

    I haven't read much about the dro-m'Athra. What are they really? Mortal Khajiits 'corrupted' by the Void/Lorkhan?

    Apparently according to the UESP and the wiki, Namira is the Prince of the 'Ancient Darkness' which might be why she is associated with the Dro-m'athra, the edgy teens of Elswyer. 

    What the dro-m'Athra are is couched in Khajiiti cultural outlooks and myth. Described variously as "bent cats" or "dark spirits", the dro-m'Athra are hard to pin down when looked at through their cultural lens. Because the Lunar Clergy of kitty faith warn against anything that would lead their people away from the right path, it could be asserted that dro-m'Athra are those Khajiit who did become corrupted, as you say. That then could mean that they went to their aligned AE upon death, in this case the Great Darkness asscociated with Namira and Lorkhaj. The creature that remains after this process could be the dro-m'Athra. We'd call them Daedra, but to the cats they are uniquely wrapped in their own metaphors.

    Nocturnal doesn't exist within Khajiit faith, but her sphere of influence - her place in the Wheel - remains. I'd say that it is most likely that Nocturnal's and Namira's spheres overlap for the Khajiit. Dark, night, shadows... those things still exist but they have no goddess to personify them, so Namira takes those as her own from their pov. Namira for the Khajiit, then, is not the Namira we recognise most. As above with the m'Athra, she is coloured and shaped with very Khajiiti memes.

    This is not new, though, as we have seen before how goddesses overlap or get replaced or absorbed by others. Kyne, for example, is a real and tangible concept. Yet for Bosmer she doesn't exist. That cannot be as the Bones need representation. So they have another who represents it. Names and categories are sometimes meaningless. Emotions and feelings - those are what the gods and demons are. To the khajiit, it could be said that Namira also resonates with the same feelings as Nocturnal. To us they are two, for them they are as one.

    Chris said: This makes me want to do a Shadowghost build

    Awesome, do it! :D

  • Member
    October 4

    Ninja'd by Tein :D

  • October 4

    Gah, don´t get me started on Namira and Nocturnal...

    Alright, you did. Eat this:

    Namira. Ancient Darkness. Remember her quest in Oblivion? About darkness, about people living in it. Complete and utter darkness. LACK of light. 

    Nocturnal. Mystery. Shadow. Unknowable. Always obscuring, hiding. And whenever she is mentioned she is described as "mistress of night and darkness". I think the word night is very important because no night is completely dark, not without a light. A tiny bit of light creates shadows that might even look like a darkness. But give it a time, let your eyes adjust and it´s not a complete darkness. 

    So let´s add Namira to Drom'bratva or what the buggers are called. Khajiit are all about moons right? Lunar Lattice bla bla bla. Take that away, take the light of moons. You get Void Nights, yeah, but take away all the light in the night. Darkness. No moons showing the path. Drom'bratva.

  • Member
    October 4

    The Lorc of Flowers said:

    Gah, don´t get me started on Namira and Nocturnal...

    Alright, you did. Eat this:

    Namira. Ancient Darkness. Remember her quest in Oblivion? About darkness, about people living in it. Complete and utter darkness. LACK of light. 

    Nocturnal. Mystery. Shadow. Unknowable. Always obscuring, hiding. And whenever she is mentioned she is described as "mistress of night and darkness". I think the word night is very important because no night is completely dark, not without a light. A tiny bit of light creates shadows that might even look like a darkness. But give it a time, let your eyes adjust and it´s not a complete darkness. 

    So let´s add Namira to Drom'bratva or what the buggers are called. Khajiit are all about moons right? Lunar Lattice bla bla bla. Take that away, take the light of moons. You get Void Nights, yeah, but take away all the light in the night. Darkness. No moons showing the path. Drom'bratva.

    Haha! I'll interpret that thought as I see it:

    Namira is a vast and ancient darkness for the Khajiit, she is the Great Darkness and an aspect of the Void.

    Nocturnal is the Ur-Dra, a title " accorded her by nearly all the Royalty of Oblivion. As the mother of night, she claims to be an aspect of the original Void itself."

    When no moons shine, and the Void Nights arrive, Namira's and Nocturnal's realm are in utter dominance and dro-m'Athra are created.

    To live a life away from the light of the moons, to turn one's back upon that light, means living as though it is a perpetual Void Night. Khajiit are warned of that consequence, and the dro-m'Athra are the bogey-man poster cats.

  • Member
    October 4
    Plus, without the Moon, like during the Void Nights, weren't almost, if not all, Khajiit infants stillborn
  • Member
    October 4
    Somehow this pops more theories about what happened during the Void Nights.
  • Member
    October 5

    Info is really scarce on that time and again down to interpretation.

    What were the Void Nights? (03/02/12)

    Eugenics experiment. With a side dish of "don't [censored] with us." MK's Posts

    In terms of projects for RP,, stories and the like, I think there's room for these Shadowghost or dro-m'Athra creatures to emerge from that time.

    Aside from the Khajiit-related animals, there is little else to indicate where they came from. They likely aren't native to Nirn, but they're here now and behave like their Tamrielic counterparts in that they don't seem to be inherently aggressive or demonic.