Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


What makes a slave a slave?

Tags: #Discussion 
  • February 15, 2017

    I have no doubt many of you either played or at least know something about Morrowind, especially the fact that Dunmer are owning slaves, mostly Khajiit and Argonians, with an Orc here and there. While it is quite a morally debatable topic it is not what I´m really after. There´s one thing that always bugged me. House Telvanni, alright? They of the three Great Houses of Vvardenfell are the ones that use slaves the most of them. But...

    For example, since the Telvanni vigorously defend the right to own slaves, and since they keep many Argonian and Khajiit as slaves, many Argonians and Khajiit assume they would not be accepted for service with House Telvanni.

    Not true. Telvanni accept all races as candidates for membership.

    What makes one Khajiit a slave in their eyes and other Khajiit not? Maybe only Beast-races caught by Dres are considered slaves - like, if they´re weak enough to get caught they deserve to be slaves - and the others not?

    What´s your opinion?

  • February 15, 2017
    It's basically how you phrased it. House Telvanni is infamous for being an amoral meritocracy. The strongest make the rules, and the weak can serve, die, or run. Telvanni mages are so notorious for feuding amongst one another that the members of lower castes largely see it as an inconvenience on par with bad weather.

    In a House like that, a strong slave would be a definite asset if it could remain safely collared. If not, a strong slave might be best used by arranging to have it gifted to a rival...With bonds just loose enough to leave room for an escape and a magical 'suggestion' that killing the new master on the way out the door should be part of the plan.

    Likewise, developing a reputation for enslaving those who try and join their ranks for work would make for fewer recruits. Far better to simply buy good slave stock from a reputable merchant than go into slaving for yourself.
  • February 15, 2017
    Oh, I absolutely love the way you think, mate. You must have been a Telvanni Magister in a previous life. :) What if we put the Dunmer famous xenophobia? I mean, Telvanni are known to not give a horse shit about lot of things, but one could say their megalomania is probably the strongest on Tamriel. Would they feel superior to every member of House Telvanni that is not Dunmer? Well, they feel superior even to each other, so...?
  • February 15, 2017

    Dude, I think they'd feel superior to anybody in the house that is not higher ranked than they are, regardless of race. 

  • Member
    February 15, 2017

    Lissette Long-Chapper said:

    Dude, I think they'd feel superior to anybody in the house that is not higher ranked than they are, regardless of race. 

    Yep and they're probably jealous of anyone who doesn't fit those criteria. Those silly silk robe wearing dunmer wizards might just have a lot of confidence issues.

    As to the topic at hand...

    In general Slavery needs two things to work (apart from the basic logistics and slaves of course). The first of those is that a system that relies on slavery needs a reason to remain unquestioned. For the greeks in Athens this was the idea that thanks to slaves the citizenry had the time to invest in political affairs. For the slavery that came with the creation of plantations after the discovery of the "new" world it was the idea that a slave was no better than a dog or a mule and as such it wasn't wrong. There's many more but let's keep it at these.

    I originally thought the Telvanni would be inclined to use the second excuse, it's the easiest one to perform in Nirn. As there are clear differences between the different sentient species (or races as we know them) and while it is most certainly the excuse the Dres must be using, I doubt the Telvanni follow the same ruleset. I think it follows the greek example a lot more.

    If Neloth has a slave to make Canis root tea for him it means less time lost by making tea, time he could be using to further his research. This is also the problem Telvanni might have with hired help; funds are also important for research and the more you have the better.

    As to what makes a slave... I don't know a whole lot about Romans but from my understanding they would enslave the people they conquered. This meant they enslaved the people they saw as weak, they deserved their enslavement. This didn't mean the entire people was destined for slavery, far from it. Especially those who showed signs of greatness had plenty of possibilities to make a life for themselves in Roman society. Were they seen as rome-born romans?

    Maybe not, but does it matter? I'm pretty much sure the Telvanni are similar, they respect magical prowess and see strength in it, they see it as a challenge and are clearly quite prideful of their prowess. As Mercurial says they are a meritocracy:

    Mercurias said:

    It's basically how you phrased it. House Telvanni is infamous for being an amoral meritocracy. The strongest make the rules, and the weak can serve, die, or run. Telvanni mages are so notorious for feuding amongst one another that the members of lower castes largely see it as an inconvenience on par with bad weather.

    What better way to prove your superiority (and merit) over everyone else than to allow said others to shine in your field of expertise and to then show them how much you outshine them?

    So, those were my two cents (and a shit ton of rambling) what do you guys think?

  • Member
    February 15, 2017

    Funnily enough, I was actually just reading up on ES slavery today.

    Anyway, I've always pictured Morrowind's slave trade to be more-or-less centred around House Dres, where they'd just find and capture whoever they could, then sell them off to the Telvanni and Indoril (For some reason, I've never thought of Hlaalu as being very friendly with the Dres, so they would get slaves by their own means). I've also thought that, while they still very much practice slavery, House Hlaalu would tend to enslave the beast races more often than other races, seeing as though they have closer ties with the Empire. Keeping only beast-folk as slaves could be seen as sort of a "middle ground", I suppose.

    I believe there was also a Dunmer slave in Morrowind, who you had to "purchase" as a bride for of the Ashlanders, if I remember it correctly. So maybe Dunmer just enslave anyone they deem to be "inferior"? Or perhaps, it's similar to how the real-life Vikings used to capture "thralls" on their raids, in which case Falura Llervu could have been captured during a skirmish with another House?

    If I may ask my own slavery-related question as well; Does anyone know if the Nords practice/d slavery at all? Perhaps more like a serfdom sort of slavery? I vaguely remember reading about how early Nords enslaved Falmer in Skyrim, but is there any possibility that a few Nords may still practice it (Say, as of Morrowind's time period), even though it's illegal?

  • Member
    February 15, 2017
    The Volkihar clan has slaves, pretty much.
  • Member
    February 16, 2017

    Gollum said: The Volkihar clan has slaves, pretty much.

    They do indeed. They're not the only faction we interact with in Skyrim that has slaves though. The falmer in Blackreach also have slaves, but I don't think I've seen any non-vampire nords with slaves. That being said I have a strong suspicion bandits would be perfectly capable of capturing people to keep as slaves, I doubt there would be an organized slave market.

    Would you consider the Silverblood's prison a form of slavery?

  • Member
    February 16, 2017

    Teineeva said:

    Gollum said: The Volkihar clan has slaves, pretty much.

    They do indeed. They're not the only faction we interact with in Skyrim that has slaves though. The falmer in Blackreach also have slaves, but I don't think I've seen any non-vampire nords with slaves. That being said I have a strong suspicion bandits would be perfectly capable of capturing people to keep as slaves, I doubt there would be an organized slave market.

    Would you consider the Silverblood's prison a form of slavery?

    I know about the Volkihar, but I hadn't actually thought of the Silver-Blood's, and I suppose their mine's could be seen as a form of slavery. Thanks for that!

  • Member
    February 16, 2017

    Caesar said:

    I know about the Volkihar, but I hadn't actually thought of the Silver-Blood's, and I suppose their mine's could be seen as a form of slavery. Thanks for that!

    Well technically it's a labour camp, but seeing it's in the hands of a private organization that gets quite a lot of profit out of those mines and worse of all frames people if they need some extra hands, I would say it could certainly be considered as such.