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Witchmen of the Reach

Tags: #Races  #Reachmen 
  • January 29, 2018

    ProfessorChaz said:

    The forsworn is a reachmen group, full of traditional militants. They are brutal, barbaric and animalistic but other reachmen can be different in many ways e.g. animalistic but peaceful. Not all reachmen are forsworn. Have a look at Ainethach. He doesn't wear a forsworn outfit but who knows. We can't just assume, that is hate crime.

     

    Agreed. I'm actually 'writing' a character for my next playthrough who falls into that category herself. She's a Reachwoman but despises the Forsworn and everything they stand for (she also has a huge personal beef with 'em). 

    Today I was also reflecting about the relationship Hargravens and Witches have with the Forsworn (especially the latter). There ain't much info on Witches in TES lore - they are Hargravens' apprentices, and that's all we know. Since Witches and Hags are always hanging out with them Hargravens it makes me wonder if by extension they're also pals with the Forsworn. They share similar beliefs I suppose, but since Witches are not necessarily Reachwomen I wonder if they share the same values or are at least sympathetic with the Forsworns' goals. At the same time the Forsworn worship Hargravens, and they retribute that worshipness by turning Forsworn into ÜberSoldiers.

    So yeah, there's a lot of mystery in this relationship, and I don't know if I can assume that all Witches are in cohort with the Forsworn...? I ask that because I still don't know how my character would react in case she runs into a Witch (specifically Anise, since her shack is an important plot point in my character's journey).

     

  • January 29, 2018

    Sarah Lannister said:

    ProfessorChaz said:

    The forsworn is a reachmen group, full of traditional militants. They are brutal, barbaric and animalistic but other reachmen can be different in many ways e.g. animalistic but peaceful. Not all reachmen are forsworn. Have a look at Ainethach. He doesn't wear a forsworn outfit but who knows. We can't just assume, that is hate crime.

     

    Agreed. I'm actually 'writing' a character for my next playthrough who falls into that category herself. She's a Reachwoman but despises the Forsworn and everything they stand for (she also has a huge personal beef with 'em). 

    Today I was also reflecting about the relationship Hargravens and Witches have with the Forsworn (especially the latter). There ain't much info on Witches in TES lore - they are Hargravens' apprentices, and that's all we know. Since Witches and Hags are always hanging out with them Hargravens it makes me wonder if by extension they're also pals with the Forsworn. They share similar beliefs I suppose, but since Witches are not necessarily Reachwomen I wonder if they share the same values or are at least sympathetic with the Forsworns' goals. At the same time the Forsworn worship Hargravens, and they retribute that worshipness by turning Forsworn into ÜberSoldiers.

    So yeah, there's a lot of mystery in this relationship, and I don't know if I can assume that all Witches are in cohort with the Forsworn...? I ask that because I still don't know how my character would react in case she runs into a Witch (specifically Anise, since her shack is an important plot point in my character's journey).

     

    Forsword ARE Reachmen. Do you think they are different from other Reachmen, or that they are some rogue faction? Sources say otherwise. It doesn´t matter on which side of Druadachs you are, Reachmen have been raiding, enslaving, growing Briar Trees out of the bodies of their captives, creating zombie-warriors, practicing vile magic and rituals, doing blood sacrifices, screwing around with Hagravens, Hags, Harpies and gods no what else, worshipping Daedric Princes such as Namira, Molag Bal, Mehrunes Dagon (as if anything good could come from worshipping these three), for most of the known history. Forsworn is just a name of the recent time used on the eastern side of Druadachs.

    This pretty much summs it up the best:

    When I wrote the story of my enslavement at the hands of the Crow-Wives, “A Life Barbaric and Brutal," I didn't expect anyone would read or care. It caught me quite off guard when I started receiving letters—and even visits—from scholars, historians, mages, and others of that sort. It seems that the tome I left with the Master of Incunabula at the Mages Guild in Wayrest had been requested frequently, and that several copies were created.

    Apparently there is a shortage of information about the Reachmen and their practices. As you can imagine, most people they enslave aren't as resourceful (or lucky) as I was, and the clans aren't exactly keen on letting outsiders visit for a sip of tea and a little chat about their wicked magics or Daedra-worship. While I'm happy to help preserve knowledge and the like, I have to admit that I'm getting a little tired of all the intrusions, so let me clear the air on some of the silly speculations I've heard (as if my first book wasn't clear enough).

    If you want to know about Reachmen, know that they most certainly are not a misunderstood and secretly noble people. They don't even want to be left alone—they want to attack, enslave, and conquer. Has everyone already forgotten the slaughter committed by Durcorach as he cut his way through High Rock, murdering and defiling as he went? Sometimes the history books do not lie, and I can assure you they don't exaggerate the cruelty of the Reachmen.

    Many mages I've spoken to ask me about the magic of the Reachmen. I can't say I know much about it, but I can say with authority that it is not the “mostly benign form of nature magic" suggested by a few of these individuals. I tried to avoid the tribe's shamans as much as possible. They were constantly covered in spiders and other filthy creatures, muttering to themselves as they squatted over foul alchemical brews. And it's an obvious fact that the gravesingers are necromancers!

    I don't know how typical the Crow-Wives were of Reachmen clans. I do know that they were deeply involved in Daedra-worship of the foulest kind. I was forced to witness horrible rituals, from live burnings and literal blood baths to raucous dismemberments, all in the presence of that horrible Ever-Oozing Altar. I'll never be able to forget the writhing masses of centipedes, roaches, and squirming horrors that formed a thick carpet on the ritual hut's floor when the tribe called out to Namira. The clan often ate these, still alive, right off the ground during worship.

    Besides the evil magic and abominable Daedric rituals, the Crow-Wives engaged in plenty of run-of-the-mill barbarism. Kloavdra, the hagraven, seemed to think pranks (especially those that ended in someone getting hurt) were hilarious, and encouraged all sorts of bullying. She rewarded the clever and nasty and punished the meek. Children deemed too weak were sacrificed to Namira in addition to regular random sacrifices. And, of course, there were the raids. Whether they were on other tribes or small villages, they were always brutally violent affairs, sneak attacks designed to catch the targets off-guard and completely dominate them.

    So, there, my second book, with as much as I can remember about their horrid practices. Now I'd appreciate it if you'd all let me continue with my life! - On the Nature of Reachmen

    Conclusion? If there are peaceful Reachmen they are so reclusive no has seen them yet. Actually, funnily enough the only example of peaceful Reachmen so far are Forsworn, and that is when they took over Markarth and ruled it for few years and apparently they ruled it well.

  • Member
    January 29, 2018

    Sarah Lannister said:


    Today I was also reflecting about the relationship Hargravens and Witches have with the Forsworn (especially the latter). There ain't much info on Witches in TES lore - they are Hargravens' apprentices, and that's all we know. Since Witches and Hags are always hanging out with them Hargravens it makes me wonder if by extension they're also pals with the Forsworn. They share similar beliefs I suppose, but since Witches are not necessarily Reachwomen I wonder if they share the same values or are at least sympathetic with the Forsworns' goals. At the same time the Forsworn worship Hargravens, and they retribute that worshipness by turning Forsworn into ÜberSoldiers.

    So yeah, there's a lot of mystery in this relationship, and I don't know if I can assume that all Witches are in cohort with the Forsworn...? I ask that because I still don't know how my character would react in case she runs into a Witch (specifically Anise, since her shack is an important plot point in my character's journey).

     

    If you felt up for it, Sarah and Lorc, I've had an article about Nocturnal and witchcraft sat in the WS for months. I think I lost faith in it after getting too bogged down with divine femininity and the possible pain of Nocturnal. But there is a bit of detail about witches and where they fit in Reach culture that may hold trace value to those brave enough to parse through my waffle.

  • January 29, 2018

     

    Lorc, there's definitely no question that the Forsworn are Reachmen, but what about the other way around? Is every Reachperson a Forsworn? Not really. With my character I'm more like making a case about the distinction of Forsworn/Reachfolk as a culture and Reachfolk as a race of its own (which from my limited knowledge of lore is not very well estabilished, and they seem to be looked down upon by other races). I mean, it makes little sense to believe that every Breton from the Reach (sorry, I mean, every Reachperson) in the 4th era abides to the pillage/looting and heavy mushroom intake lifestyle of the Forsworn. Many of them just gotta be ordinary people trying to make ends meet, right?! They are members of the same race and share the same beliefs as the Forsworn, but not the same values*^.

    My character for example, she is a Reachwoman and shares the same blood with the Forsworn, but she doesn't share the same culture or beliefs, in fact she despises their beliefs (especially their veneration of tradition/old and their enormous sense of self-righteousness) so much that she makes destroying the Forsworn culture her lifetime goal. She simply thinks it's time for that lifestyle of pillaging, looting, raping, living in tents, etc. to end, since it's outdated and has cost her race too much already (her motivations are much more egoistic than heroic though).

    *and how would the Forsworn treat these people btw? As traitors? See them as weak? Would they simply not care about these people and leave them alone? It's something to think about.... since I believe that humanity is mostly petty and selfish, I think the Forsworn would bloody despise them and treat them like shit, worse than the Nords. 

    ^and btw, this topic is helping me a lot to answer my questions and understand these people better, it gives a lot more depth and authenticity to my character xD

  • January 29, 2018

    Sarah Lannister said:

    Lorc, there's definitely no question that the Forsworn are Reachmen, but what about the other way around? Is every Reachperson a Forsworn? With my character I'm more like making a case about the distinction of Forsworn/Reachfolk as a culture and Reachfolk as a race. I mean, it makes little sense to believe that every Breton from the Reach (sorry, I mean, every Reachperson) abides to the pillage/looting and heavy mushroom intake lifestyle of the Forsworn. Many of them just gotta be ordinary people trying to make ends meet; they are members of the same race and share the same beliefs as the Forsworn, but not the same values*.

    You still don´t follow. Forsworn and Reachmen aren´t two different concepts. Forsworn are culturally Reachmen. Everything you see with Forsworn is everything you could have seen with all other Reachmen throughout the whole history of Skyrim/High Rock borders. Forsworn is just a name that came after Markarth´s incident, they started calling themselves that in the territory east of Druadachs (Skyrim) - or people started calling them that, that´s not the point. What matters is that Forsworn are not some offshoot or something, they are the same Reachmen that are in High Rock on the other side of Druadachs.

    As for every Reachman abiding to the raiding/slaughtering/enslaving life...yes, they do and if they don't because they don't agree with those ways they are outcasts and in this case we are no longer talking about race and culture but individuals. Why? Because the Reach (which does not encompass only Skyrim, but the other side of Druadachs in High Rock) is something of a birthright to them - at least they believe that. They are forced to live as intruders in their own land on both sides of Druadachs, raiding Breton villages, constantly fighting Orcs in Wrotghar, and of course fighting the Nords in Skyrim. Everyone in the land they call theirs is the enemy

    Forsworn = Reachmen. No difference, just a fancy name. Reachmen, Witchmen, Madmen of Reach, Forsworn. The same. Ther are of course different tribes with different Princes as their favourites, but they still are Reachmen/Witchmen/Madmen of Reach/Forsworn.

    Sarah Lannister said:

    My character for example, she is a Reachwoman and shares the same blood with the Forsworn, but she doesn't share the same culture or beliefs, in fact she despises their beliefs (especially their veneration of tradition/old and their enormous sense of self-righteousness) so much that she makes destroying the Forsworn culture her lifetime goal. She simply thinks it's time for that lifestyle of pillaging, looting, raping, living in tents, etc. to end, since it's outdated and has cost her race too much already (her motivations are much more egoistic than heroic though).

    *and how would the Forsworn treat these people btw? As traitors? See them as weak? Would they simply not care about these people and leave them alone? It's something to think about.... since I believe that humanity is mostly petty and selfish, I think the Forsworn would bloody despise them and treat them like shit, worse than the Nords. 

    Yes, I think that Reachmen would definitely see these people as traitors, and if not traitors than as weak, something like Stronghold Orcs perceive the city Orcs. Because these people would become the same as the invaders such as the Nords and Bretons, throwing away all their traditions which probably are the only thing uniting them and keeping their "civilization" alive.

     

  • January 29, 2018

    Karver the Lorc said:

    Reachmen, Madmen of Reach, Witchmen of High Rock, Forsworn. But who are they? In Skyrim we just meet with a one faction, Forsworn, but they aren't the only representatives of their race. Yes, race. They are similar to Bretons, sharing most of the same blood, but ultimately, they are a mix of plenty of other races.

    “If not their own race, the Reachmen are definitely their own breed. In blood they are closest to the Bretons, but with other tribes mixed in, as they will kidnap the children of every mortal race and interbreed with them. This is, perhaps, the only way in which they are tolerant of outsiders."  Loremaster Archive

     



    Sorry Lorc, but this opening statement contradicts what you are saying here. You said the Forsworn is one faction of these people, not the only representatives of their race. And I agree more with that. I think Reachfolk is a race of its own, independent on what values or beliefs they people have. And that's the point I'm trying to make. Like I said earlier, makes little sense to believe that everyone who shares that blood will abide to the Forsworn lifestlye, some people simply wouldn't. But that wouldn't make them 'less-Reachmen' imo  xD

  • January 29, 2018

    Sarah Lannister said:

    Karver the Lorc said:

    Reachmen, Madmen of Reach, Witchmen of High Rock, Forsworn. But who are they? In Skyrim we just meet with a one faction, Forsworn, but they aren't the only representatives of their race. Yes, race. They are similar to Bretons, sharing most of the same blood, but ultimately, they are a mix of plenty of other races.

    “If not their own race, the Reachmen are definitely their own breed. In blood they are closest to the Bretons, but with other tribes mixed in, as they will kidnap the children of every mortal race and interbreed with them. This is, perhaps, the only way in which they are tolerant of outsiders."  Loremaster Archive

     



    Sorry Lorc, but this opening statement contradicts what you are saying here. You said the Forsworn is one faction of these people, not the only representatives of their race. And I agree more with that. I think Reachfolk is a race of its own, independent on what values or beliefs they people have. And that's the point I'm trying to make. Like I said earlier, makes little sense to believe that everyone who shares that blood will abide to the Forsworn lifestlye, some people simply wouldn't. But that wouldn't make them 'less-Reachmen' imo  xD

    Now we are just playing with words, because you take one sentence out of the context that is the whole article. The history, belief and culture in this article isn't about Forsworn, but Reachmen as a race and culture. Alright, but how about this? Read all of these sources if my article mislead you and then we can discuss this again.

    The Feral Reachman Barbarian, Cagarah, Loremaster Archive, On the Nature of Reachmen, A Life Barbaric and Brutal, Malacath and the Reach, The Care and Feeding of Briar Hearts, Triumps of a Monarch, Forsworn Missive, Legend of Red Eagle, The Bear of Markarth, The "Madmen" of the Reach, The City of Stone, Nepo's Journal, Thonar's Journal, Herbane's Bestiary, Aspects of Lord Hircine

     

  • January 29, 2018

    Alright, but how about this? Read all of these sources if my article mislead you and then we can discuss this again.

    Seriously, dude?! No need to be arrogant, y'know. We're just discussing videogame lore ;)  

     

  • January 29, 2018

    Sarah Lannister said:

    Alright, but how about this? Read all of these sources if my article mislead you and then we can discuss this again.

    Seriously, dude?! No need to be arrogant, y'know. We're just discussing videogame lore ;) 

    What is arrogant about it? I feel like my article mislead you so I´m only providing you with all the possible sources on Reachmen I could find and used to do this article so that you could make your own opinion without the subjective influence that is someone else´s article. What is arrogant about that?

  • January 29, 2018

    Karver the Lorc said:

    What is arrogant about it? I feel like my article mislead you so I´m only providing you with all the possible sources on Reachmen I could find and used to do this article so that you could make your own opinion without the subjective influence that is someone else´s article. What is arrogant about that?



    Your tone tbh.  

    And btw, the in game books and lore help understanding their beliefs and their culture, but they are just stories, hearsay, legends, mythology... without Archaeology and Anthropology to back them up, you can't blindly take them as facts. Also, reading these books don't solve the problem I'm proposing here, which is of an anthropological nature: what about the Reachmen who don't abide to that lifestyle? Those who prefer to adapt to a more 'modern' lifestyle if you will, but still preserve their religion, and some of their values and tradition and, most importantly, are still proud to call themselves Reachmen? If you consider Reachfolk a race, then these people would still be Reachmen despite not being Forsworn. That's my point. XD