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Velothic Commentaries On Sithis

  • June 7, 2016

    Welcome my pupils. Please take a seat around the fire. Today I will be deconstructing the words not only of my predecessors but also my successors, for knowledge does not only come from the past.

    The bulk of this commentary will be discerning the work “Sithis” but it will also be supplemented with the “36 Lessons of Vivec ” as well as “The Monomyth” and "Annotated Anuad”. I will be aiming to take each passage and deconstruct them in order to decipher the wisdom contained within. So like everything let's start at the beginning

    Sithis is the start of the house. Before him was nothing, but the foolish Altmer have names for and revere this nothing. That is because they are lazy slaves

    A statement echoed in the Lord of the Middle Air's seminal work the 10th sermon of the 36 Lessons of which we will return.

    SITHISIT is the start of all true Houses, built against stasis and lazy slaves.

    In the beginning there was Everything. This Everything was all encompassing, never changing, never thinking, unmoving and it was One. My successor calls this Everything nothing because to look at this all-encompassing Everything for all intentions would look like a blank whiteness, for there would be no individuality.

    stasis asks merely for itself, which is nothing.

    The Altmer named this Everything Anu and worship it, this is why they are Lazy Slaves for they pine for the reality that was and refuse the reality that is. They wish to give themselves to the unmoving everything .

    Sithis is named here as the start of all Houses for it is\will be the dividing force between all things, mer from mer even mer from themselves.

    Sithis sundered the nothing and mutated the parts, fashioning from them a myriad of possibilities. These ideas ebbed and flowed and faded away and this is how it should have been.”

    From “The Monomyth”:

    So that he might know himself he created Anuiel, his soul and the soul of all things. Anuiel, as all souls, was given to self-reflection, and for this he needed to differentiate between his forms, attributes, and intellects. Thus was born Sithis, who was the sum of all the limitations Anuiel would utilize to ponder himself.”

    'But Teacher' you may ask 'What of Padomay?' To understand why Padomay is not mentioned in this work is to understand what Padomay truly is. Padomay is nothing actual. You can not see it. You can not hear it. You can not smell it. Padomay is pure formless possibility and it does not exist. Nothingness can only be viewed when it interacts with Something. Sithis is the product of that.

    Sithis was created by Anu when he was first kissed by Padomay and became the space between his thoughts, shattering Anu's sense of self that then became the et'Ada “ideas that ebbed and flowed”. If you would then ask how can you tell the difference between Anu who seems as much like nothing as Padomay is nothing? I would say exactly. 1 and 1 and inelegant number.

    Again “The Monomyth” says:

    Sithis is the Corrupting Inexpressible Action”

    Sithis is corrupting and inexpressible because it is the space between thoughts. It is the action taken without thought. It is the subconscious. It is instinct, that is to say it is the Reptilian Brain within all anon SITHISIT.

    Continuing with “Sithis:

    One idea, however, became jealous and did not want to die; like the stasis, he wanted to last. This was the demon Anui-El, who made friends, and they called themselves the Aedra. They enslaved everything that Sithis had made and created realms of everlasting imperfection. Thus are the Aedra the false gods, that is, illusion.”

    Out of all these shattered thoughts one retained the most of Anu's concept of eternal never-changing and he has been called Anui-El. He went on to shape the other formless thoughts in to something closer resembling himself, called the Aedra who the Altmer accept as their ancestors and who we reject. The Aedra then began forming there own never-changing realms that have been called Aetherius.

    So Sithis begat Lorkhan and sent him to destroy the universe Lorkhan! Unstable mutant!”

    Lorkhan, formed differently from other et'Ada, had a different idea of self.

    Lorkhan had found the Aedric weakness. While each rebel was, by their nature, immeasurable, they were, through jealousy and vanity, also separate from each other. They were also unwilling to go back to the nothing of before.”

    The Aedra retained the eternal and unchanging aspects on Anu but Lorkhan realized that they did not retain the Oneness. The Aedra were to selfish and they wanted to keep their idea of separate self.

    So while they ruled their false dominions, Lorkhan filled the void with a myriad of new ideas. These ideas were legion. Soon it seemed that Lorkhan had a dominion of his own, with slaves and everlasting imperfections, and he seemed, for all the world, like an Aedra. Thus did he present himself as such to the demon Anui-El and the Eight Giver: as a friend.

    Go unto the Sharmat Dagoth Ur as a friend.”

    Lorkhan pretended he was an Aedra, a friend to the others and used them to create his own realm so that he could defeat them. This is a lesson Lun and Sul will need to learn if he is ever to defeat the Dreamer.

    AE HERMA MORA ALTADOON PADHOME LKHAN AE AI”

    And Secret Knowledge Is The Weapon Of Change The One Who Created The World And I.

    So my pupils, now you know the nature of Sithis. It is a necessary yet dangerous force, for as Sermon 10 say Sithis still travels and if it travels unchecked all will fall. And now you know what you must do. You were once the hunters in the forest who stalked for food and dangers, but now you hunt a new prey.

    Go unto Sithis as a friend.

  • Member
    June 9, 2016

    Great stuff master Veloth  Very well written! 

    Would you accept a question from this pupil about an oog source, just for the sake of discussion?

  • June 9, 2016

    Please just Veloth, Master Veloth was my dad !

    Absolutely, ask away. 

  • Member
    June 9, 2016

    Veloth Jnr then 

    Not a big question, just thoughts on Source of Chaos:

    Sithis was born when a nihilist sect of the already doom-ridden Chimeri merged (under Mephala’s tutelage) Daedric elements with the Inexpressible Action that was Padomay. In essence they began to revere Padomay's Chaos nature (as opposed to that of Anu, who is Order), and over the years degenerated into a thuggish mystery-cult which wanted to "murder the world." The Dark Brotherhood was born in these times-- which, in Morrowind, is known as the Morag Tong. Some of the higher-level Morag Tong maintain that they predate the Dark Brotherhood (more evidence of this later). That, in fact, they are an organization devoted to playing out the eternal interplay of Nir. Assassination, they say, is the purest celebration of joy or living. Whatever the case, the Padomay of Morrowind (and isolated Dark Brotherhood sects) is not the Padomay of Artaeum...."

  • June 9, 2016

    So is he saying that the Morag Tong and the Dark Brotherhood are the exact same thing?

  • Member
    June 9, 2016

    Well it gets interesting. Legion and I were working on an RP/Lore article. There are enough interesting sources which contradict each other to make it fun. However, it was this which interested me most in that text:

    Sithis was born when a nihilist sect of the already doom-ridden Chimeri merged (under Mephala’s tutelage) Daedric elements with the Inexpressible Action that was Padomay... Whatever the case, the Padomay of Morrowind (and isolated Dark Brotherhood sects) is not the Padomay of Artaeum...." 

    The implication possibly being, to me at least, that the Sithis we players know and the Dark Brotherhood harp on about is not Sithis from Monomyth but a corruption of Padomay with daedric elements in a chaotic mashup. They invented a new Sithis. 

    Sort of puts the old "Sithis is not a God of Death" thing to rest. 

  • June 9, 2016

    Yeah I totally read it the same way and it really does fit with the Dark Brotherhood weird nonsensical philosophy.

    I maybe reading this wrong but he also seems to be implying that there was no split between the Morag and the Brotherhood and they are just two names for the same thing? That part doesn't really jive with me beacuse it it kind of contradicts what we know of the Morag Tong and why they were founded, that being to cut away parts of Chimer society so that the whole thing wouldn't collapse, basically limiting the dividing factor which is basically fighting against classical Sithis.

    Another question would be does the version of Sithis the DB worship now exist beacuse they wanted it to?

  • Member
    June 9, 2016

    Well, Legion and I worked a bit of something: 

    Things start getting interesting when we look at the Morag Tong and its rivalry with its "hated child" the Dark Brotherhood. The sources often contradict each other on this subject as some, likeThe Brothers of Darkness, claims that "the Morag Tong re-emerged as the Dark Brotherhood" sometime in 2E 360.

    While others, like Fire and Darkness, assert "The Dark Brotherhood of the west, unfettered by the orders of the Tribunal, continue to worship Mephala. They may not call her by her name, but the Daedra of murder, sex, and secrets is their leader still. And they did not, and still do not, to this day, forgive their brethren (the Morag Tong) for casting her aside."

    The sources are at direct odds it seems, one says they are the same while the other says they are rivals. Indeed, if we believe Sacred Witness is actually an interview with the Night Mother, she indicates there was no feud: 'The Morag Tong was around long before my time. I know I'm old, but I'm not that old. I merely hired on some of their assassins when they began to fall apart after the murder of the last Potentate. They did not want to be members of the Tong anymore, and since I was the only other murder syndicate of any note, they just joined on.'

    So what, if anything, caused this feud? More importantly how can it help reinterpret a Morag Tong or Dark Brotherhood character in terms of roleplay? I think the answer lies in the Psijic Endeavour - that Dunmeri philosophy to achieve enlightenment.

    The sources indicate that Mephala was never the original patron of the Morag Tong, that instead she became the most recent figure of veneration and replaced a more primal, more misanthropic entity: "..the earliest form of the Tong additionally worshipped an even older and more malevolent deity than Mephala.  As terrifying as that Prince of Oblivion is, they had and have reverence for a far greater evil." (Fire and Darkness).

    This is backed up by a multitude of sources, such as the profile of Dram from TES Redguard: "Like all members of the Morag Tong, Dram worships Sithis, the God of Death; indeed, he is a thrice-born initiate who continues his faith even after his exile."

    Even MK in an obscure in-universe text called Source of Chaos has this to say:

    Sithis was born when a nihilist sect of the already doom-ridden Chimeri merged (under Mephala’s tutelage) Daedric elements with the Inexpressible Action that was Padomay. In essence they began to revere Padomay's Chaos nature (as opposed to that of Anu, who is Order), and over the years degenerated into a thuggish mystery-cult which wanted to "murder the world." The Dark Brotherhood was born in these times-- which, in Morrowind, is known as the Morag Tong. Some of the higher-level Morag Tong maintain that they predate the Dark Brotherhood (more evidence of this later). That, in fact, they are an organization devoted to playing out the eternal interplay of Nir. Assassination, they say, is the purest celebration of joy or living. Whatever the case, the Padomay of Morrowind (and isolated Dark Brotherhood sects) is not the Padomay of Artaeum...."

    Shit getting deep, but Fire and Darkness should be given the final word here:

    In order to exist, the Morag Tong must have appealed to the highest power in Morrowind, which at that time, the Second Era, could only have been the Tribunal of Almalexia, Sotha Sil, and Vivec.  Mephala, whom the Tong worshipped with Sithis, was said to have been the Anticipation of Vivec.  Is it not logical to assume that in exchange for toleration of their continued existence, the Tong would have ceased their worship of Mephala in exchange for the worship of Vivec?

    So what we have here is interesting and unusual - that the Morag Tong assassin as we know her is actually the least likely to be a worshipper of Mepaha - at least up until Red Year. The Dark Brotherhood actually despises the Morag Tong for casting aside worship of the Silver Spider who they still revere. Yet that isn't all. As both revere an eastern version of Padomay in the form of Sithis, the Dark Brotherhood do not follow the Psijic Endeavour. In a nutshell, there is huge ambiguity and thus plenty of scope for exploration depending on which source you favour.

  • Member
    June 9, 2016

    But I am doing you a disservice. I didn't mean to detract from what is a very good piece of lore delivered in-universe style.  Where should it live in the Archives, metaphysics?

  • June 9, 2016

    Ok so lets see if I'm picking up what you are putting down:

    The Original Morag Tong formed by the Chimer is a more "pure" form of Mephala worship and what we would associated with that, secret murder and manipulation that is holy just by the simple act of doing it.

    Then along came Vivec and all the Chimer became the Dunmer and he replaced Mephala and reforged the Morag Tong's teachings in to his more humanistic (meristic?) philosophy where they actually had a use.

    Then at some point in time some disgruntled assassins who pined for the Morag Tong Of Old broke away and beacuse of some manipulation by Mephala they formed a new guild with a new philosophy that mirrored the old one.

    Ok now that I can dig. Everything lines up in my head and everything seems "in character".

    Would you say that the Morag Tong Of Old and the Dark Brotherhood both worshiped this form of Sithis but the current Vivecian Morag Tong probably wouldn't?

    I think the current Morag Tong would still be more Vivecian since if we look at pre-Red Year Dunmer society as a whole they didn't fully revert back to the ways of the Ashlanders\Chimer, their current culture is more and amalgamation of Chimer and ALMSIVI societies.

    Also worth noting there is a book in ESO that proclaims that the Dark Brotherhood (or at least some) actually worship the Night Mother over Sithis and that Sithis actually comes second to her.