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Discussion: TLDB connections with talos and other shezzarine

  • Member
    November 22, 2015

    During my playthrough in skyrim I have noticed some odd things going on. More specifically things to do with the PC's connection to other shezzarine. Before I continue, we need to define what a shezzarine is, and who are other shezzarine.  A shezzarine is an individual who is an incarnation of Lorkhan, otherwise known as Shor. Shezzarine are also known to reincarnate every few millenia. There are very few known shezzarine to have lived on tamriel. Going in chronological order, we will start with Pelinal Whitestrake, champion of St. Alessia during the Alessian slave rebellions, also known as the divine crusader. He was the first shezzarine, the earliest mentions of him were in the merethic era, wandering tamriel and gathering armies. He was said to be of padomistic origin, and lacked a heart (much like Lorkhan). Pelinal is not going to be our focus right now, as he is believed to have Lorkhans whole soul. Our main focus is on the three latter shezzarine who actually fused souls to mantle Shor.

    Ysmir Wulfhearth

    Hjalti Early-Beard

    Zurin Articus

    Ysmir Wulfhearth was a Nordic king during the first era, he later reincarnates and resurfaces multiple times throughout history. Wulfhearth was also a dragonborn, much like TLDB, and was the first to be hearkened the title Ysmir or "Dragon of The North". A title also given to the PC. The first merger of souls is believed to have happened at the battle of Old Hroldan, where Hjalti Early-Beard, a young Breton, drove out the reachmen. This is the first time that an individual known as Talos is mentioned, also the first time that Hjalti/Talos demonstrated his thuum. He presumably gained this power after merging with Ysmir Wulfhearth. Talos Stormcrown also is named Ysmir by the Greybeards. The name change indicates a the creation of a new entity. General Talos later goes on to be crowned Emperor. The second merger happens here, when Talos merges with Zurin Articus to protect the cyrodillic people. A signaling of a new entity is also created here, Tiber Septim. The merger of these three souls is so alike to that of Lorkhan, that they go on to mantle him.

             Now thats out of the way, we can go on to evidence that The Last DragonBorn's soul is the same as the merged soul.

    1. During the Quest "The Ghost of Old Hroldan", the ghost refers to you as Hjalti, regardless of your race, he also seems unaware of any others in the inn. This begs the question, Is he seeing your soul, and not your body? Perhaps. We do know that your soul is much different than the others in the inn, and the reason he only responds to you may be because a dragon soul is much brighter than the soul of others. This can be seen by the difference between the animation for trapping a soul, and the animation for absorbing a dragon soul. The fact that he recognizes you as Hjalti is an indication that your soul is at least partly made up of Hjalti's soul.

    2. During "Savangarde"  it is stated by Ysgramor that shor has forbidden them from Leaving the hall until he returns. One thing to be noticed is, Wulfhearth, Hjalti, Zurin, Talos, and Tiber are not anywhere in the hall. That is because they are all now shor. Now back to what I said Earlier, prohibited from leaving the hall. Now what is the first thing three Nord Heroes do when you arrive? Leave the hall... Coincidence? I think not.

  • Tom
    Member
    November 23, 2015

    To start, please allow me to post a link to the Lore Article on Shezarrine I wrote.

    Nitpicky things:

     There isn't a periodicity to Shezarrine, so don't know why you'd say they're known to occur every few millennia. Pelinal wasn't the first recorded Shezarrine.

    Major issues:

    Hjalti and Zurin weren't Shezarrine, and Wulfharth wasn't Dragonborn. I'll quote my own Shezarrine article;

    I’m combining these two together because they are literally joined together, along with Zurin Arctus, into one soul.

    Hjalti and Zurin weren't and aren't Shezarrine, just as Zurin and Wulfharth weren't and aren't Dragonborn. Their combined essences are Shezarrine and Dragonborn only because Wulfharth was Shezarrine and Hjalti was Dragonborn. Their souls are now tied together through mytheopic forces into one godhead with three aspects.

    The first merger of souls is believed to have happened at the battle of Old Hroldan, where Hjalti Early-Beard, a young Breton, drove out the reachmen. - The Dragonbum

    I've never heard this either. The Ghost of Wulfharth did meet with Hjalti and either unlocked Hjalti's ability to Shout or Wulf took the guise of Hjalti and used his own Thu'um.

    Ysmir is also a title given to great heroes of the Nordic people, possible modeled after some hero-god of the Atmorans. The Greybeards only give it to great heroes who know the Thu'um, and we've seen it given to two Dragonborn, who are inherently gifted in this, and a Shezarrine who was King back when the Thu'um was common amongst the Nords.

    The second merger happens here, when Talos merges with Zurin Articus to protect the cyrodillic people. A signaling of a new entity is also created here, Tiber Septim. The merger of these three souls is so alike to that of Lorkhan, that they go on to mantle him. - The Dragonbum

    No. Zurin and Wulfharth were merged when Tiber and Hjalti tried to trick Wulfharth and soultrap him to the Mantella of the newly acquired Numidium, but something went wrong and Zurin's soul done got sucked up too. This event was a reenactment, though probably unintentional, of Convention when Auriel (Tiber) betrayed Lorkhan (Wulfharth) and had Lorkhan's (Wulf's) Heart (soul) removed (trapped) and Magnus (Zurin) was banished.

    To your points:

    1. You made it, but then went further than you should've. The Ghost at Old Hrolden thinks your Hjalti because you're a Dragonborn. That's it. No need to go further.

    2. No. I'll quote it.

    By Shor's command we sheathed our blades and ventured not the vale's dark mist. But three await your word to loose their fury upon the perilous foe.  -Ysgramor

    Why would Talos be in Sovngarde anyway? Talos is a separate deity. Wulf is a Shezarrine, and wouldn't be there since his spirit was condemned to wander the world, and Zurin and Hjalti weren't Nords or worshipers of Shor. Regardless, these three are linked together into Talos who still isn't Shor.