Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Dagoth-Ur: Bad Guy Or Just Misunderstood?

  • August 24, 2015

    So while I was over on Elder Scroll Classics I had some thoughts on Dagoth-Ur and decided to write them down to see what others think. Sorry for it being slightly rambly.

    To understand Dagoth-Ur you have to realize that in Velothi\Dunmer culture, suffering is divine because it "cuts them in to better shapes". The Dunmer know they need to suffer because suffering = change and change = growth. It's the reason they worship the gods that they do, it's the reason they live where they do and it's the reason they have sanctified assassins. Because they know in the end it will make them stronger.

      But some either can't or won't understand this. All they want is to stick with the status quo beacuse it's easier, it makes them feel safer. They become "Lazy Slaves" to blissful ignorance. This is why Vivec said "only way to Heaven is through violence". Violence on the inside because it makes a person stronger and violence on the outside because sometimes change needs to be forced to ward of stagnation.

    So because of this culture in his mind Dagoth-Ur thinks he is doing the right thing by using the Blight. It turns those that can't comprehend enlightenment in to the slaves that they always were and it brings those who can comprehend closer to godhood and in the end all the suffering will make them stronger. He sees it as the next stage of their self imposed evolution from Aldmer to Chimer from Chimer to Dunmer from Dunmer to tentacle faced guys and from tentacle faced guys to gods.

    To read more about Dunmer\Velothi and Dagoth-Ur culture check out Vivec and MephalaLives of the Saints, Vivec's DialogueBattle of Red Mountain36 Lessons of Vivec 

  • Member
    August 25, 2015

    It's funny but your title could just as well read Vivec: Bad Guy or Just Misunderstood. That fucker would drag all of his people to enlightenment, willing or not.

    Seriously though, Dagoth's role as a villain in the story makes his position pretty clear but what caused it to happen? How did he go from a Chimer who wanted to destroy Kagrenac's tools to a mad god spreading apotheosis through disease?

  • August 25, 2015

    Tribunal´s betrayal of Nerevar? He and Nerevar were best pals, if I remember it correctly. Or at least that´s what we were told.

    While Dagoth Ur certainly did some shitty things to Morrowind, there is possibility he really believed that the Tribunal are the evil. Not sure why he decided to become much worse, uglier and meaner god than them, but it could be it.

  • Member
    August 25, 2015

    I mean in terms of how the Heart corrupted him. The Tribunal went one way, Dagoth another.

  • August 25, 2015

    Heart corrupted him? Not sure that Heart is something that can corrupt someone. It´s power is not necceserily evil, it just depends on how you use that power.

    What if it´s the other way around? Dagoth Ur motives, goals and feelings corrupted the Heart´s power?

  • Member
    August 25, 2015

    This is why I find that particular question interesting. In some of the sources it is Dagoth who is given the task of guarding Kagrenac's Tools because he wanted to destroy them and this is why Nerevar put him in charge of them. Who better to guard them than the person most suspicious of them?

    The Tribunal betrayed and killed Nerevar (in some accounts) so it seems that they were the ones corrupted, while Dagoth was defeated trying to avenge Nerevar.

    So it could be that Dagoth's motives were the most pure...

  • August 25, 2015

    At the beginning. But in the end...isn´t revenge in darker spectrum of feelings?

    But you´re right. It is really interesting question. I like these grey areas. It might be that Tribunal were the bad guys and by betraying and defeating Dagoth Ur they send him against them. It might be that his cause was just.

    But that still doesn´t excuse his actions.

  • August 25, 2015

    Yeah Dagoth kinda does a total 280. I would think after he was connected to the heart his understanding of the world and his people's place in it changed and so he decided he would share that experience with everybody.

  • Member
    August 25, 2015

    It could be argued that his actions were purer than the Tribunal's - they were marked by Azura (according to some sources) for what they did. Vivec's lessons are a constant refrain on following the Psijic Endeavour. Dagoth's actions were along the same lines -apotheosis through Blight.

    What's the difference between the Tribunal and Dagoth? The Tribunal made regular trips back to the Heart in order to renew their power. Dagoth spent much more time in its presence. Did the Heart of a god (the removal of which caused the Sithis Shaped Hole Sheogorath) drive Dagoth mad?

  • August 25, 2015

    If he was mad, it was certainly a very composed and rational madness.