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Treatise on Tiber Septim: Divine or Heretic?

  • Member
    February 12, 2015

    We all know of Talos, the Ninth Divine of the Imperial faith, and we know of Tiber Septim, the man who founded the Empire, and more importantly, the long ruling Septim Dynasty, and supposedly, the man who became the One who ascended, the One of the Eight and One, Talos. Though, various mysteries and theories persist to this day about Tiber Septim. Was he an Atmoran of Atmoran, even though, all in-game sources claim Atmora was a frozen wasteland by the time of Tiber Septim. Aside from that, the last ship recorded to have left Atmora was long before the reign of Septim. Tiber Septim, Talos of Atmora, Tal0Sian hologram, Talos Stormcrown, Hjalti Early-Beard, who was he? An Atmoran, a Nord born in landlocked Alcaire, a kingdom in High Rock, or a Breton. Was he Dragonborn, or did Ysmir grant him that ability to Shout? I’ve decided, with research from various sources, to give a middle ground to this argument. Together, let us discover a new......




    Here, we have the most known of the origins of the man who would be (one of the) part(s) of Talos. Hjalti Early-Beard, by his name alone, and according to The Arcturian Heresy, written by the Underking, whether Zurin Arctus or Ysmir Ash-King/Wulfarth, that states “He (Cuhlecain) allies with Skyrim at the Battle of Old Hrol'dan. Leading his forces was Hjalti Early-Beard. Hjalti was from the island kingdom of Alcaire, in High Rock, and would become Tiber Septim, the First Emperor of Tamriel.” Would have been a Nord, and from High Rock. Before, and possibly during, the Battle of Old Hrol’dan, it is claimed that Tiber Septim slept in the inn which would become the Old Hroldan Inn, according to the current innkeeper. This is later given more proof when the Last Dragonborn, if he sleeps in the bed where Hjalti apparently slept, a spirit will appear, asking if the Dragonborn is Hjalti, asking you to find the sword Hjalit Early-Beard was to give to the ethereal soldier. After the blade is given to him, he will mention that he will re-teach you some of the moves they (The Ghost of Old Hroldan and Hjalti Early-Beard) learned from the swordmasters of Alcaire. Now, why would this ghost recognize you as Hjalti, even though there is a possibility, even less if your character is a non-Nord, none if they are Mer or Beast, as Hjalti? Speculations exist that  the reason is because both Tiber and the Last Dragonborn were Dragonborn.


    This can hold some proof because, when the Last Dragonborn was greeted by the Greybeards, they mention that the blessing they gave you, their predecessors granted to the young Talos. Of course, Talos could have just been a Tongue. Another line of the Arcturian Heresy seems to point to only one person, Hjalti, for, it states “It is the rumbling of the Greybeards that wake him. Though the Empire has crumbled, there are rumors that a chosen one will come to restore it. This new Emperor will defeat the Elves and rule a united Tamriel. Naturally, Wulfharth thinks he is the figure of prophecy. He goes directly to High Hrothgar to hear the Greybeards speak. When they do, Ysmir is blasted to ash again. He is not the chosen one. It is a warrior youth from High Rock. As the Grey Wind goes to find this boy, he hears the Greybeards' warning: remember the color of betrayal, King Wulfharth.”  Tiber Septim was called by the Greybeards later on in his life, and he reunified the Empire (by force or shrewd diplomacy, with the aid of his Battlemage, Zurin Arctus), and, according to the blessing, Long (in) sorrow (has) waited (the) Stormcrown, with no worthy head to rest on. Hjalti Early-Beard, with Ysmir’s cloud floating above him, was called Talos, or Stormcrown in the olden tongue, of Atmoran.  The second verse, By our Voice we give it now (to you), Dragonborn, by (the) power of Kyne, by (the) power of Shor, and by (the) power of Atmora-of-old. Now, consider, a thousand+ years ago, the Greybeards gave this same greeting to Tiber Septim. If he was not Dragonborn, why would they have given him this blessing, as they do in the 4th Era to the Last Dragonborn?


    But, we are not just here to discuss if Tiber was Dragonborn, we are to discuss how he came to power, and whether or not he became the Ninth Divine. Both in-game and in lore, there have been evidence supporting this theory. First off, we have the Neravarine, the possible Incarnate of Indoril Nerevar. While in the Tower of Dusk, the Neravarine met an elderly Imperial soldier, known as Wulf.


    This Wulf, requested that the Neravarine carry an old Septim with him/her when they went to Red Mountain. When the Nearavarine asked around, none of the tenants claimed to have ever seen the old veteran. Later, when the Neravarine questioned Lalatia Varian, Oracle of the Imperial Cult, she explained that Wulf was actually an avatar of Tiber Septim.


    More evidence exists during the Third Era, with the Champion of Cyrodill, the Hero of Kvatch, the Divine Crusader, and, as a few controversial whispers say, the Madgod Sheogorath. According to the records of the Blades, in order to open a gateway to Mankar Camaron’s Paradise, the Champion had to have the Blood of a Divine. Grandmaster Jauffre suggested that the Hero locate the Armor of Tiber Septim, residing in Sancre Tor (Blood of the Divines), the place where Hjalti supposedly recovered the Amulet of Kings, guarded, surprisingly, by long dead Blades, as well the Underking, who had invaded and corrupted the resting place of the Reman kings. In all contemporary sources, the official Underking was Zurin Arctus, who tried to kill Septim, and had his heart sealed in the Mantella, and, from the records of the Agent, and Mannimarco, the King of Worms has battled the Underking the past, possibly leading credence to the Underking, Arctus, working for the good of the Empire.


    On the other hand, The Arcturian Heresy, supposedly written by the Underking himself, the Underking is in fact Wulfarth, who was supposedly called there by Septim, to plan on how to vanquish the Tribunal, but it was but a trap. Imperials guards battled Wulfarth, while Arctus soul-trapped him, getting blasted in the heart as Wulfarth turned to ash. There is a similarity to the official story, wherin, after Tiber claims the Mantella, and the Numidium, he claimed Arctus had attempted a coup. The Underking later appeared, blasting the Numidium apart, and was crushed in return, leaving only a black spot, with the Numidium falling into the sea. Tiber was then crowned Emperor, similar to how, according to the same book, he had secretly slain Cuhlecain. Later, when Pelagius I was Emperor, an advisor appeared, "I was friends with your grandfather," the Underking says, "He sent me to help you run the Empire."




    Next up we have the belief that Tiber Septim was actually an Atmoran (Also named Hjalti Early-Beard), even though, according to the timeline, the last ship from Atmora (Songs of the Return) left Atmora a few hundred years before Tiber was even born. Its unlikely, given what we know of present Atmora, with it being pretty much a desolate frozen wasteland, it would be nigh impossible for a family to raise a child there. Of course, he could have been born in High Rock by Atmoran parents who sailed there. Though, if one were to look at the Septim dynasty, the niece of Tiber by his brother, Agnorith, Kintayra in particular. You see, Kintayra Septim’s father was an Imperial. According to Racial Phylogeny Generally the offspring bear the racial traits of the mother, though some traces of the father's race may also be present.” So, if Agnorith is the blood brother of Tiber Septim, then this could also mean that Tiber was born an Imperial. Or, they could have been raised by an Imperial family.


    Now, what is interesting is Tiber’s romance with former Queen of Wayrest, and Former Queen mother of King Hlaluu Helseth, who many of us may remember from playing Tribunal. You see, after she was banished from Skyrim after Septim’s conquest of it, and after later joining the Thieves Guild (Where her granddaugher Karliah would be a part of, due to the fact she had another affair with a bard known as Nightingale, who was actually the master thief Drayven Indoril), Tiber became infautated with the young (In Mer terms, and even then she was long lived) Queen. She had an affair with the Emperor, and had a child. According to the two censored biographies on her life, Biography of Queen Barenziah and The Real Barenziah, she grew pregnant with Septim’s child. The emperor was furious, and ordered the child aborted, so no threat to the throne would come. Though, if Karliah was in fact the child of Septim and Barenziah, and was not aborted, then she would have a legitimate claim to the Septim Dynasty, and the Imperial throne, unlikely as she is to take it.

    <==Queen Barenziah

    Now, with all the facts having been distorted by time, hearsay, the Imperial Cult (Who even say that the worship of Talos is but hero-worship like with Reman Cyrodill), it is hard to know the truth. Tiber Septim, whatever his race, lived to be 108, the oldest man on Nirn, aside from mages that use magic to extend their lives, of course. We do not even know exactly how he lost the ability to Shout, or whether he could because of Wulfarth. He has been speculated to have either been the target of assassination alongside his king, but he survived, and lost the Voice, or he himself was the assassin, faking his own attack, we may never know.


    Well, my readers, in my mind, I have come to a consensus. I do not claim this as absolute truth, but it is what I believe. Tiber was from an Atmoran family, which did flee to High Rock. He became a general in Cuhlecain’s army, and after being victorious, grew ambitious like Macbeth, seeking the throne. Before he could act, an assassin slew his king, and nearly killed Tiber, which humbled the man. Becoming both a conqueror with the aid of Wulfarth, and a shrewd diplomat with the aid of his Battlemage, Zurin Arctus, took much of Nirn under his banner. The Underking is the result of a Zurin willingly sacrificing himself, and, Wulfarth taking control of Zurin’s cadaver, creating the Underking. Talos, regretful, demonized the Underking, but not his friend. He would then go on to rule until his passing, where he ascended, fusing with Zurin and Wulfarth and forming Talos.

    Who do you, my readers, believe Tiber Septim was? Did he become Talos, or was he just a man? Discuss.

  • February 12, 2015

    Good job. But don't get me started. 

    this pic alone...brah. My jimmies. 

  • Member
    February 12, 2015

    Be thou unrustled, brother.

  • Member
    February 12, 2015
    I just never understood why the Nords can worship him by them selves and not force his influence, but It's wrong for the Altmers to supress his worship. No offense to anyone It's just seems like a an easy solution.
  • Tom
    February 12, 2015

    This was a long read, and I've been eager to give my two septims worth.

    Atmora, is said to be "frozen". It is take at face value to mean it has gotten so cold as to be inhospitable for life, since the continent is north of Skyrim, which is a frozen wasteland most of the year. But according to non-canon sources, "frozen" doesn't mean cold. Atmora is frozen in time. This is why no one can live there any more, and why no one goes to or comes from Atmora.

    Here's what I think of Talos, Tiber Septim, and Hjalti Early-beard:

    The man started as Hjalti, either a Breton or Nede born and bred. He was Dragonborn. Dragons have the innate desire to dominant and rule, and all known Dragonborn have exemplified this. This is why Hjalti did as he did. He was driven to conquer, to dominant, to rule. Whether he's painted as a hero or a villain depends entirely on who benefited from him and who lost.

    He learned to shout from Wulfharth, not from being Dragonborn. Wulfharth probably did to Hjalti what the Greybeards do for the Last Dragonborn when it comes to teaching Words of Power.

    The being known as Tiber Septim, is the amalgamation of Hjalti, Arctus, and Wulfharth. These three mantled the divine triune of Rebel/Watcher/King, Thief/Mage/Warrior, Akatosh(Auri'El)/Magnus/Lorkhan. (The Tribunal and Anticipations also follow this divine triune pattern). By replaying this interaction of conflict, betrayal, and loss between these three archtype figures, and from the power of Numidum, they ascended and merged to godhood.

    This is very similar to the Tribunal and the Heart of Lorkhan. The Tribunal aren't three deities but three aspects of the same deity. Remember as well, that they gained their power through the Heart of Lorkhan which was used to start Numidium.

    Now, Wulfharth was a Shezzarine, an avatar of Shor/Lorkhan. He can't be killed in the traditional sense, because he is a fragment of Lorkhan. Arctus survives by being bound to the Underking. This is who survives to write the Heresy and I'd wager is really the character Wulf from Morrowind.

    See, I don't buy Talos would care about the Nerevarine and the Tribunal. Why? He conquered them through diplomacy, and the Tribunal always payed him tribute. But... Lorkhan might indeed have good reason to see Dagoth Ur stopped, since the Sixth House is abusing his Heart.

    Just my thoughts right now.

  • February 12, 2015

    The poison of the elves seeps deep, my friend. Roots of lies are deep in the foundations. 

  • February 12, 2015

    Who was it that sat on the throne for years? Hjalti? 

  • February 12, 2015

  • Member
    February 12, 2015
    In my mind, yes, Hjalti was Dragonborn, but a man, to begin withy.
  • February 12, 2015

    You don't suddenly become dragonborn.