Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


The Missing God: Looking for Lorkhan

  • Member
    June 11, 2019

    Justiciar Thorien and I had a nice, interesting and long debate recently regarding the Missing God. I was inspired by that discussion to make a slightly more coherent and easier to refer to topic on the subject. Throughout this article I refer to this deity using a few different terms so as to avoid saying "Lorkhan" all the time :D The main reason for this is because Lorkhan is just one name given to Him by one race and culture so, in the interests of fairness, I try to represent him from different perspectives. The Missing God, The Space God, Lorkhan, Shezarr, Shor... We're talking about the same dude.

    The best place to start in any discussion is the beginning, so I think taking a look at The Monomyth is the most suitable place to start.

    All Tamrielic religions begin the same. Man or mer, things begin with the dualism of Anu and His Other. These twin forces go by many names: Anu-Padomay, Anuiel-Sithis, Ak-El, Satak-Akel, Is-Is Not. Anuiel is the Everlasting Ineffable Light, Sithis is the Corrupting Inexpressible Action. In the middle is the Gray Maybe ('Nirn' in the Ehlnofex).

    In most cultures, Anuiel is honored for his part of the interplay that creates the world, but Sithis is held in highest esteem because he's the one that causes the reaction. Sithis is thus the Original Creator, an entity who intrinsically causes change without design. Even the hist acknowledge this being.

    Anuiel is also perceived of as Order, opposed to the Sithis-Chaos. Perhaps it is easier for mortals to envision change than perfect stasis, for often Anuiel is relegated to the mythic background of Sithis' fancies. In Yokudan folk-tales, which are among the most vivid in the world, Satak is only referred to a handful of times, as "the Hum"; he is a force so prevalent as to be not really there at all.

    In any case, from these two beings spring the et'Ada, or Original Spirits. To humans these et'Ada are the Gods and Demons; to the Aldmer, the Aedra/Daedra, or the 'Ancestors'. All of the Tamrielic pantheons fill their rosters from these et'Ada, though divine membership often differs from culture to culture. Like Anu and Padomay, though, every one of these pantheons contains the archetypes of the Dragon God and the Missing God ~ The Monomyth

    There isn't much to be said at this stage. The passage from The Monomyth quoted above is summarising the backstory prior to Creation as the inhabitants of Tamriel best understand it. At the end there we have The Dragon God and The Missing God introduced to us, as well as the introduction of the concept of sub and supergradients. That concept is normally related to us in familial terms. Ie, Sithis is the Missing God's "father" while Anuiel is The Dragon God's "father." Anyway, onward...

    Who is The Missing God?

    This Creator-Trickster-Tester deity is in every Tamrielic mythic tradition. His most popular name is the Aldmeri "Lorkhan," or Doom Drum. He convinced or contrived the Original Spirits to bring about the creation of the Mortal Plane, upsetting the status quo much like his father Padomay had introduced instability into the universe in the Beginning Place. After the world is materialized, Lorkhan is separated from his divine center, sometimes involuntarily, and wanders the creation of the et'Ada. Interpretations of these events differ widely by culture.

    The 'missing' refers to either his palpable absence from the pantheon (another mental distress that is interpreted a variety of ways), or the removal of his 'divine spark' by the other immortals. He is often called Lorkhan, and his epitaphs are many, equally damnable and devout. ~ The Monomyth

    We get the idea by now that this god is seen by the different cultures as either a good thing or a bad thing. To the Altmer and the Redguards, The Space God is responsible for their mortality so is villified, and this outlook is reprsented in their myths and legends. To most of the other races, Lorkhan is still responsible for their mortality but for them life is something to be cherished. That outlook is represented in their myths.

    As the subject here is not an analysis on who is right or wrong, we're now moving forward in order to look at another source which details the Missing God's imprisonment and the act of Convention...

    The Cosmos formed from the Aurbis [chaos, or totality] by Anu and Padomay. Akatosh (Auriel) formed and Time began. The Gods (et'Ada) formed. Lorkhan convinced -- or tricked -- the Gods into creating the mortal plane, Nirn. The mortal plane was at this point highly magical and dangerous. As the Gods walked, the physical make-up of the mortal plane and even the timeless continuity of existence itself became unstable.

    When Magic (Magnus), architect of the plans for the mortal world, decided to terminate the project, the Gods convened at the Adamantine Tower [Direnni Tower, the oldest known structure in Tamriel] and decided what to do. Most left when Magic did. Others sacrificed themselves into other forms so that they might Stay (the Ehlnofey). Lorkhan was condemned by the Gods to exile in the mortal realms, and his heart was torn out and cast from the Tower. Where it landed, a Volcano formed. With Magic (in the Mythic Sense) gone, the Cosmos stabilized. Elven history, finally linear, began (ME2500). ~ Before the Ages of Man

    The first passage recaps Creation, while the second passage retells Convention. Each culture has their own version of the removal of Shezarr's heart, with each of those stories coloured by their cultural opinion of the god, which we'll look at briefly now...

    The Redguard's story:

    "Tall Papa squashed the Snake with a big stick. The hunger fell out of Sep's dead mouth and was the only thing left of the Second Serpent. While the rest of the new world was allowed to strive back to godhood, Sep could only slink around in a dead skin, or swim about in the sky, a hungry void that jealously tried to eat the stars." ~ The Monomyth

    The Altmeric Story:

    "Trinimac, Auriel's greatest knight, knocked Lorkhan down in front of his army and reached in with more than hands to take his Heart. He was undone. The Men dragged Lorkhan's body away and swore blood vengeance on the heirs of Auriel for all time."

    "But when Trinimac and Auriel tried to destroy the Heart of Lorkhan it laughed at them. It said, "This Heart is the heart of the world, for one was made to satisfy the other." So Auriel fastened the thing to an arrow and let it fly long into the sea, where no aspect of the new world may ever find it." ~ The Monomyth

    The Nordic Story:

    "Ever since the Moot at the House of We, where the chieftains of the other tribes had accused him of trespass and cattle-theft and foul-mouthery, he knew it would come to a war we could not win. Any of those words were enough for the treason-mark, and traitors were only met with banishment, disfigurement, or half-death. He (Shor) had taken the first with pride, roaring a chieftain's gobletman into dust to underscore his willingness to leave, knowing we would follow. He had taken the second by drawing a circle on the House's adamantine floor with his tailmouth-tusk which broke with a keening sound, showing the other chieftains that it would all come around again. And he took the third by vomiting his own heart into the circle like a hammerclap, guarding his wraith in the manner of his father and roaring at the other tribes..." ~ Shor son of Shor

    The Khajiiti Story:

    And Lorkhaj said, "Lorkhaj makes a place for children and Lorkhaj puts you there so you can give birth." But the Heart of Lorkhaj was filled with the Great Darkness, and Lorkhaj tricked his siblings so that they were forced into this new place with Nirni. And many of Fadomai's children escaped and became the stars. And many of Fadomai's children died. And the others stayed and punished Lorkhaj.

    The children of Fadomai tore out the Heart of Lorkhaj and hid it deep within Nirni. And they said, "We curse you, noisy Lorkhaj, to walk Nirni for many phases." ~ Words of the Clan Mother

    Hopefully we get the idea that all these different tales are recounting the same mythological event, each one coloured by the opinions of their respective tellers. As we are dealing with mythological events, it's always worth bearing in mind that "myth" is the key word here. Not one particular myth can be said to be more true than another, but the common elements are that The Missing God's heart is separated from his body and ends up within Red Mountain on Vvardenfell, while what is left of him winds up exiled or condemned to wander Nirn.

    At this stage things start getting more complicated. The Lunar Lorkhan seems to be the next logical step on our journey, so we'll take a look at that and see how it backs up and summarises what the removal of The Missing God's divine spark means for Tamriel...

    We all have our favorite Lorkhan story and our favorite Lorkhan motivation for the creation of Nirn and our favorite story of what happened to His Heart. But the Theory of the Lunar Lorkhan is of special note.

    In short, the Moons were and are the two halves of Lorkhan's 'flesh-divinity'. Like the rest of the Gods, Lorkhan was a plane(t) that participated in the Great Construction... except where the Eight lent portions of their heavenly bodies to create the mortal plane(t), Lorkhan's was cracked asunder and his divine spark fell to Nirn as a shooting star "to impregnate it with the measure of its existence and a reasonable amount of selfishness."

    Masser and Secunda therefore are the personifications of the dichotomy-- the "Cloven Duality," according to Artaeum-- that Lorkhan legends often rail against: ideas of the anima/animus, good/evil, being/nothingness, the poetry of the body, throat, and moan/silence-as-the- abortive, and so on -- set in the night sky as Lorkhan's constant reminder to his mortal issue of their duty. ~ The Lunar Lorkhan

    I think it's important to note that the Lunar Lorkhan idea isn't present in all cultures. For example, the Khajiit see the two moons as the gods Jone and Jode, while the corpse of Lorkhan is a third moon sitting within the Great Darkness that is Namiira. ~ Trail and Tide questions

    Perhaps the most interesting concept mentioned in the Lunar Lorkhan above is the idea of The Space God's divine spark "impregnating Tamriel "with the measure of its existence and a reasonable amount of selfishness." That is pretty key because, if we look back at all the different myths, by now we're maybe wondering why. Why did He either do it to himself or let it happen? Was it just cause and effect or part of a greater plan? Those questions are when things really start to get interesting, in my opinion, and are pretty central to the more complicated subjects we'll look at next.

    In order to introduce those subjects to this discussion, we'll start by examining Varieties of Faith and the Dunmeri point of view...

    After the world is materialized, Lorkhan is separated from his divine center, sometimes involuntarily, and eventually wanders the creation of the et'Ada. He and his metaphysical placement in the "scheme of things" is interpreted a variety of ways. In Morrowind, he is a being related to the Psijic Endeavor, a process by which mortals are charged with transcending the gods that created them. ~ Varieties of Faith: The Dark Elves

    The Psijic Endeavor mentioned above is a concept only fleshed-out outside of the game's sources. In order to fully understand the concept, I'm afraid it's necessary to delve into what many people consider to be non-canon. I hope the fact of it being referenced in-game legitimises the out-of-game source, though. It's also worth noting that the Psijic Endeavor has nothing to do with the Psijic Monks as the word Psij carries with it a deeper meaning ...

    What is the Psijic Endeavor?

    The basis for the teachings of the Prophet Veloth, founder of present day Morrowind and father of Dunmeri culture. Veloth describes the Psijic Endeavor as a process of glorious apotheosis, where time itself is bent inward and outward into 'a shape that is always new'. Those who can attain this state, called chim, experience an ineffable sense of the godhead, and escape the strictures of the world-egg.

    It should be noted that, while Veloth is given credit for establishing the anti-laws that govern the Endeavor, this process has its antecedents in the teachings of the Black Hands Mephala, Boethiah, Azura, Trinimac, and, of course, Lorkhan, through that lord's association with PSJJJJ.

    What is "chim"?

    From the Ehlnofex: an ancient sigil connoting 'royalty', 'starlight', and 'high splendor'. As with most characters of that dangerous language, the sigil CHIM constantly distorts itself. Those scholars that can perceive its shape regard it as a Crowned Tower that threatens to break apart at the slightest break in concentration.

    Representations of the chim, and by extension the Psijic Endeavor, are always protean values, such as the anumidi models renowned by the Dwemer, the Scarab of contemporary astrolothurges, and the Striking ("exact egg-cracking") of old Argonia. All of these representations possess an innate and constant aspect of transformation.

    What is the purpose of the Psijic Endeavor?

    To transcend mortal boundaries set in place by immortal rulers. At its simplest, the state of chim provides an escape from all known laws of the divine worlds and the corruptions of the black sea of Oblivion. It is a return to the first brush of Anu-Padomay, where stasis and change created possibility. Moreso, it the essence needed to hold that 'dawning' together without disaster. One that knows CHIM observes the Tower without fear. Moreso: he resides within.

    I am confused. What is the relationship of the Psijic Endeavor and the Tower?

    Ah. Because from within one, you may regard the other.

    That helps little. What examples of the Psijic Endeavor exist today?

    The world you stand on is said to be the first attempt at chim. It is also admittedly the most famous. That it was choreographed by Lorkhan and ultimately failed is well-documented, but whether or not this failure was intentional is still disputed.

    Wait. Why would anyone want to purposely fail the process of CHIM?

    And this is the most-reached destination of all that embark upon this road. Why would Lorkhan and his (unwitting?) agents sabotage their experiments with the Tower? Why would he crumble that which he esteems?

    Perhaps he failed so you might know how not to. ~ Vehk's Teaching

    As mentioned, things are maybe getting deep and complicated now. The word CHIM might be something we've encountered in-game via the CHIM-EL ADABAL, or Amulet of Kings, which is said to have been created from a drop of Lorkhan's blood as his heart passed overhead (ESO's best song, Red Diamond, recounts this vividly). We might have also heard Heimskr quoting a bit of CHIM in action during his speech in Whiterun: "'You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.' ~ From the Many-Headed Talos

    The subject of CHIM and how it relates to Lorkhan and the Psijic Endeavor gives us our first clue as to The Missing God's plans for the Mundus. As always we need to bear in mind that it's just one culture's point of view and isn't necessarily true. That said, there we also need to remember the various myths about what happens next for Lorkhan and how he's variously doomed to wander for many phases as the Khajiit put it, or slink around in a dead skin as the Redguards would say. For the Nords and Imperials, this wandering and slinking manifests as something called a Shezarrine, an incarnation of the Missing God named after the Cyrodiilic god, Shezarr, who is the spirit behind all human undertaking.

    "...during the Late Merethic Era the legendary immortal hero, warrior, sorceror, and king variously known as Pelinal Whitestrake, Harrald Hairy Breeks, Ysmir, Hans the Fox, etc., wandered Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again." ~ Before the Ages of Man

    This wandering avatar of the Space God crops up time and time again throughout history. He's a colourful figure, very much an exemplar of the point of view of Nords and Cyrods. That is to say, he's very much a personification of Shor or Shezarr as understood and interpreted by Nords and Cyrodiilic man. He also tends to crop up as an agent of change - not surprisingly considering he is a subgradient of Sithis. Whether or not this change is good or bad depends on one's point of view. For example, for the oppressed Nedic people under brutal Ayleid rule, Pelinal's definitely a change for the better. For the Ayleids in power... not so much because his coming spells the beginning of the end for them as a people and that, in turn, will eventually give rise to the Breton people.

    The Bretons will eventually have their influential figure in the form of Hjalti Early-Beard, another possible Shezarrine and one part of the hero-god we all know as Talos.

    DrowsySnarkFish

    But we're still not done. The Psijic Endeavor really introduces us to the possibility of Nirn being this prison in which The Missing God may have designed in order for someone to eventually do that which he could not. That philosophical concept of seeing the Tower and residing within it seems central to the stories of each Elder Scrolls game...

    "Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event."
    Zurin Arctus, the Underking

    The idea and concept of the Prisoner is meta-game:

    An approach to a game that transcends or operates outside of the prescribed rules of the game; uses external factors to affect the game; or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.

    In terms of an ES game, we as players know we're controlling a character who exists within the gameworld. In turn, the deeper lore of the game understands we know this. In that way, each Elder Scrolls game is also an Event preceeded by prophecy, and we play the Hero that makes the Event happen. The easiest way of saying it is that if no player turns on their console or computer, Alduin will never appear at Helgen. Simple, aye? The prophecy says Alduin will return but it needs us as the player for that to happen.

    We also always start out as a Priosner with no past, almost as though we popped into existence at that moment. Obviously that has two purposes; one being that we can make our character anything we want; and two, we are confined to exist within the gameworld and can't go back home to mum and dad. However, the Priosner holds the deeper meaning acknowledged by the game. Sotha Sil in ESO's Clockwork City dlc gives us the best insight we have to-date on this subject:

    The Prisoner wields great power, making reality of metaphor. We will need you before the end."
    Why do you keep calling me the Prisoner?
    "A fool's hope, perhaps. I should explain.
    Look around you. All of this exists because it must exist. I stand here, in this place, in this moment, not because I wish to, but because I have to. A result of action and consequence."
    So wouldn't that make you the prisoner?
    "Clever... but incorrect.
    The Prisoner must apprehend two critical insights. First, they must face the reality of their imprisonment. They must see the determinative walls - the chains of causality that bind them to their course."
    You haven't done that?
    "I have. But I fall short of the second insight.
    The Prisoner must see the door to their cell. They must gaze through the bars and perceive that which exists beyond causality. Beyond time. Only then can they escape."
    You don't see the door?
    "I see only unsteady walls.
    If the people of Tamriel must exist inside this cell. I will make sure that the walls are stable, the gaps are sealed, and all who remain stay safe within it."

    So we can see parallels with the character we play and that of Lorkhan: Both he and us are Prisoners in Tamriel, and we both know the limits of our cell. In ESO, this idea is further backed up by the need to absorb Skyshards. In the original game, after our soul is taken by Mannimarco we cannot leave Coldharbour until we absorb one of these shards, which the Prophet explains might be linked to the Missing God of creation.

    Something similar happens in TES V: Skyrim with the absorption of Dragon Souls. In order to defeat Alduin, we need to have absorbed at least one soul along the way. Dragon souls, from a certain point of view, are like shards of Akatosh - or pieces of Time. Why would our possibly-Shezarrine character absorb pieces of the Time Dragon? Because Akatosh and Lorkhan, Time and Space, are the same being. They are two sides of the same coin, a duality that goes right back to the top of the gradient ladder to Anu and Padomay, the two forces whose interplay becomes indistinguishable from one another and who need each other for any of it to have happened.

    The Aedroth Aka, who goes by so many names as to perhaps already suggest what I'm about to commit to memospore, is completely insane. His mind broke when his "perch from Eternity allowed the day" and we of all the Aurbis live on through its fragments, ensnared in the temporal writings and erasures of the acausal whim that he begat by saying "I AM". In the aetheric thunder of self-applause that followed (nay, rippled until convention, that is, amnesia), is it any wonder that the Time God would hate the same-twin on the other end of the aurbrilical cord, the Space God? That any Creation would become so utterly dangerous because of that singular fear of a singular word's addition: "I AM NOT"? ~ et'Ada, Eight Aedra, Eat the Dreamer

    The concept of the Time God and the Space God being the same entity is explored in the Song of Pelinal. Here we see the Shezarrine calling to his brother, his mirror image, as he goes on his Madness:

    Pelinal cared for none of this and killed any who would speak god-logic, except for fair Perrif, who he said, "enacts, rather than talks, as language without exertion is dead witness." When those soldiers who heard him say this stared blankly, he laughed and swung his sword, running into the rain of Kyne to slaughter their Ayleid captives, screaming, "O Aka, for our shared madness I do this! I watch you watching me watching back! Umaril dares call us out, for that is how we made him!" ~ The Song of Pelinal

    Further to the Pelinal theme, Alessia's assention is also a key event, for at her deathbed both Akatosh and Lorkhan are present.

    Strangely, it appears that Pelinal is present at Alessia's deathbed, although he was killed by Umaril earlier in the saga (years before Alessia's death). Some scholars believe that this fragment is not actually a part of the Song of Pelinal, but most accept its authenticity although there is still much debate as to its significance.]

    "... and left you to gather sinew with my other half, who will bring light thereby to that mortal idea that brings [the Gods] great joy, that is, freedom, which even the Heavens do not truly know, [which is] why our Father, the... [Text lost]... in those first [days/spirits/swirls] before Convention... that which we echoed in our earthly madness. [Let us] now take you Up. We will [show] our true faces... [which eat] one another in amnesia each Age." ~ The Song of Pelinal

    Paired with:

    And Akatosh drew from his breast a burning handful of his Heart's blood, and he gave it into Alessia's hand, saying, 'This shall also be a token to you of our joined blood and pledged faith. So long as you and your descendants shall wear the Amulet of Kings, then shall this dragonfire burn -- an eternal flame -- as a sign to all men and gods of our faithfulness. So long as the dragonfires shall burn, to you, and to all generations, I swear that my Heart's blood shall hold fast the Gates of Oblivion. ~ Trials of Saint Alessia

    So that was a brief look at Lorkhan, an oft-villified Missing God who is inextricably linked to the Dragon God of Time and who, I believe, we incarnate when we play The Elder Scrolls.

    More importantly, though, what do you think and what does Akatosh and Lorkhan mean to you?

    Thank you for reading.

  • Member
    June 12, 2019

    I really like the idea of the prisoner, but can see others disliking it because it can make it seem like their characters don't really have a choice, which for roleplaying games isn't the greatest thing. Which I think might be the wrong way to look at it, instead of our characters being bound by these prophecies I like to think that the ball starts rolling as a result of their choices. Let's say that I use an Alternate start mod in Skyrim; my character and I are still the prisoner because we still fit the criteria, it is then my character's choice of whether they travel near Helgen that affects Alduin's return, not the other way around. Or for a non-modded example, if my character never chooses to visit Markarth then the events of the Forsworn quests never occurs and Margret gets to continue living her life having not been murdered as a result of our first visit.

    Also I was really confused when I started reading this yesterday and say the bit at the starts where you listed Redguards as hating Lorkhan, until I read the quote about Sep and half remembered that their belief is that they can follow in the example of their chief god and become like him.

  • Member
    June 12, 2019

    Golden Fool said:

    I really like the idea of the prisoner, but can see others disliking it because it can make it seem like their characters don't really have a choice, which for roleplaying games isn't the greatest thing. Which I think might be the wrong way to look at it, instead of our characters being bound by these prophecies I like to think that the ball starts rolling as a result of their choices. Let's say that I use an Alternate start mod in Skyrim; my character and I are still the prisoner because we still fit the criteria, it is then my character's choice of whether they travel near Helgen that affects Alduin's return, not the other way around. Or for a non-modded example, if my character never chooses to visit Markarth then the events of the Forsworn quests never occurs and Margret gets to continue living her life having not been murdered as a result of our first visit.

    Also I was really confused when I started reading this yesterday and say the bit at the starts where you listed Redguards as hating Lorkhan, until I read the quote about Sep and half remembered that their belief is that they can follow in the example of their chief god and become like him.

    That's fair, I can completely see why people maybe wouldn't like it. I think that's why it's buried and the games take care not to make it too overt so as to preserve that cover box slogan of "live another life in another world." Yet the pattern is buried in the data, as the Illusive Man said, and it becomes an inescapable realisation. Like, I can pretend my character is a Nord from Windhelm. Nobody in Windhelm will contradict me, but nobody will recognise me either. No frinds, no family. So I instead choose Bruma, but nobody there will recognise me either. It's all make believe, right? But what is the truth, what are the facts? The prophecies of the Elder Scrolls are not set in stone, they only become reality when the Hero is in the right place. So you can go through the entire game and avoid Helgen, but the moment you arrive there so will Alduin. That's because we are the Hero, the Prisoner, and when we show up the Event happens as the Scrolls have foretold.

    It's a very meta-game concept but it applies to things such as why all the dead have woken up, why all the dragon priests are waking up, and why the dungeons are full of fresh food. We ask why these things are the way they are, and it's exactly like Sil tells us:

    "I am only what time and circumstances made me. Son of a lost house. Friend to a fallen king. Some will tell you that we are the product of our choices. I've never found that to be the case."

    Proctor Luciana's journal is also breaking that wall:

    "Why do you think things happen?" he asked. I told him I didn't understand the question.

    "Why are we sitting here talking? Why does young Marius exist? Why do I reign over this place, while you convalesce within it?"

    I sat quiet for a moment, then replied: "Because that's just the way it is."

    His cold face melted into one of his solemn half-smiles. "Exactly."

    Finally, at the end of conversation with him, he tells us something very meaningful:

    Didn't you just say that you question whether the City is worth the effort?


    "Indeed. But such questions are flaccid - cursory indulgences that come and go in an instant.
    The truth is that my actions, both good and evil, are inevitable. Locked in time. Determined by chains of action and consequence."


    So... you were forced to build the Clockwork City?

     

    "Compelled.


    This City serves a noble goal. The redemption of Tamriel. The unification of competing forces. The destruction of the Daedra. Unfortunately, it is an endeavor build [sic] upon a lattice of corpses. Betrayal. Untold horrors. Do you understand?"


    Yes.

    "Then I pity you."

    That's if we reply with "yes." I pity us too, for we have lost something a bit special, a small piece of naivete as relaisation dawns that all of it, the whole thing, is there for us. It becomes then a great effort to suspend the disbelief, to will yourself to imagine it different, to unlearn that all the food in the dungeon is there simply because we are. Margret will continue living, but it will be in stasis. She will not change, move on, or grow until the agent of change enters that stasis. Because that's what we are, metaphysically speaking. Our character, so very much like The Missing God, is change given form.

    Yes the Redguards. It's all there in the Monomyth. Like, Sep's to blame and it's all his fault that everyone now needs to learn new ways to follow the stars to the Far Shores. Damn snakes.

  • Member
    June 12, 2019

    Couldn't you also say that because the prisoner has seen outside their bars and escaped, then they are the only being on Nirn able to make actual choices. The only certain thing about a prisoner's fate is that they bring change, we are able to choose where to go and what to do at a given moment while the inhabitents of Nirn are restricted by the Elder Scrolls.

  • Member
    June 12, 2019

    Golden Fool said:

    Couldn't you also say that because the prisoner has seen outside their bars and escaped, then they are the only being on Nirn able to make actual choices. The only certain thing about a prisoner's fate is that they bring change, we are able to choose where to go and what to do at a given moment while the inhabitents of Nirn are restricted by the Elder Scrolls.

    I think we can say that. It's like as Sil says, "The Prisoner wields great power, making reality of metaphor." But at this point we are at the meta-game, as in, the only choices we can make are already defined because it's a game and knows it's a game, while also knowing that you know it's a game. Like, we can choose to do go to Markarth, or choose to go to Helgen, but what we can't do is choose to go to Leyawiin. That is a choice we do not have, and the simple reason is because that isn't an option written into the game. The game is the Elder Scroll.

    I'm going to leave the memospore analysis on the Prisoner, and there's a bit about 37 minutes in when they talk about freedom. Deadite tells a story about how a player in TES IV set out to live as an NPC. He'd reject all quests, just do his utmost to live life as a person in the world would. Just go hunting, do some farming, completely ignore all quests. It's said in the video that is as close as we'll get to freedom in a video game. So we're restricted by the medium, a prisoner to the program. It's a strange thing in that the inhabitants of the world don't get these options. It's to us Stuga comes "Do you know how long I've been looking for you?" Why me? Why not, say, Stibbons? Or that dude in the stable? And the answer to that is obvious: It's a game for us to play. The difference between TES and most other games, is that lore at it's deepest or (possibly most shallow level) acknowledges that paradigm.

  • Member
    June 12, 2019

    I wouldn't say that we can't go to Leyawiin; alright we can't go there right now in Skyrim but eventually, since that's ignoring our greatest reality bending tool; mods. We can literally change the world to suit us. But again horribly meta and restricted by the availablity of mods or our own ability to create them, but still in a way the idea of the Prisoner even acknowledges our ability to mod the game which is nice in its own way.