Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Khunzar-ri and the Demons

  • Member
    April 17, 2019

    The book, Khunzar-ri and the Demons appears in Elder Scrolls Online's Elsweyr prologue quest, The Demon Weapon. It's an oral tale, told to us by Khajiiti Moon-Singers. It tells a story of dragons in Elsweyr and how a legendary hero of the Khajiit and his companions fought against them and defeated them. I took screenshots of the book for those who haven't played the game but might be curious about the Khajiit and their view of dragons.

    Who is the Betrayer, I wonder?

  • Member
    April 17, 2019

    This is actually quite interesting. One thing I've noticed is that they used the word "demon" to describe the dragons instead of calling them as they are. Could be just a cultural view thing like with the races of Akavir. 

    Is taking the life force of the dragons similar to absorbing their souls? I wonder if Lorkhan's connection with the moons have anything to do with taking away someone's life force. 

    Also... demon-infused moonlight. Damn, that sounds awesome! :D

  • April 17, 2019

    Shiiit there's so much of this that I'm not sure if I'm missing out on because I haven't finished enough ESO content or if the Khajiit are just one of my weaknesses (Or it's just about all new).

    Anyway, that's a really fascinating story, and I think it shines a light on how terrifying Dragons must be for 'normal' people, especially since the ones in ESO seem like they're getting a power buff when compared to the Skyrim Dragons. I mean, yeah it just really portrays the struggle between the two forces really well and kind of makes you wonder how other dragons were dealt with when there wasn't a Dragonborn. 

    Is taking the life force of the dragons similar to absorbing their souls? I wonder if Lorkhan's connection with the moons have anything to do with taking away someone's life force. 

    That's fascinating to think about...Leading on from that thought process, is it perhaps something specifically regarding Lorkhan and Dragons that leads to the life theft? I mean, and I might be off the rails a bit here. But there's a certain level of connection between the idea of the Shezzarine and the Dragonborn, and this sort of feels similar in a way. It's not as permanent as the Dragonborn's ability to steal souls, but it's still possibly something directly linking Lorkhan and Dragons.

    Or perhaps it's better to make a simpler connection linking the remains Lorkhan's with immortality. The Tribunal got their Godhood from his heart, so who's to say that there aren't ways to use his corpse in order to..seal immortality of a sort? 

  • Member
    April 17, 2019

    A-Pocky-Hah! said:

    This is actually quite interesting. One thing I've noticed is that they used the word "demon" to describe the dragons instead of calling them as they are. Could be just a cultural view thing like with the races of Akavir. 

    Is taking the life force of the dragons similar to absorbing their souls? I wonder if Lorkhan's connection with the moons have anything to do with taking away someone's life force. 

    Also... demon-infused moonlight. Damn, that sounds awesome! :D

    Khajiiti myths are always laden with metaphor so it's hard to know exactly what they mean. There's definitely a connection with moonlight, moon sugar, and souls for the cats in the same way wind/breath is the life essence of the Nords. So the dragons' talk of "consuming the moons" could be along the lines of Alduin's world-eating and/or a way to destroy the Khajiit (like the Void Nights: Control the moons and you control the cats). It's hard to know from this source alone excatly what's going on, and I'm torn between it being literal or figurative. I mean, this sentence here:

    He told them where to meet, at a moon temple of renown, and waited while Anequina communed with the moons. "It is not in the nature of Jone and Jode to fully consume the demons," Anequina said, "but Jode will take enough of their life force to weaken them. That should allow us to contain them."

    Is the queen having a one-on-one chat with her gods, Jone and Jode, who take action on her behalf? Or is it something similar to the Elder Scroll banishing Alduin while Kyne's name is envoked? Interesting stuff either way, and the trapping of the dragons seems thematically similar to that use of the Elder Scroll in Skyrim.

    The soul-trapping in the demon-infused moonlight is cool, and that appears to be how the Dragon Tablet works. In the quest, we (Tharn) unwittingly unite both halves of this thing and unseal the door/give the dragons back their power and unleash them upon Elsweyr. That Jone and Jode provided this power is pretty interesting due to their influence on Khajiiti souls and furstock. So it could be just how the Khajiit view what happened from their own unique outlook.

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    Shiiit there's so much of this that I'm not sure if I'm missing out on because I haven't finished enough ESO content or if the Khajiit are just one of my weaknesses (Or it's just about all new).

    Anyway, that's a really fascinating story, and I think it shines a light on how terrifying Dragons must be for 'normal' people, especially since the ones in ESO seem like they're getting a power buff when compared to the Skyrim Dragons. I mean, yeah it just really portrays the struggle between the two forces really well and kind of makes you wonder how other dragons were dealt with when there wasn't a Dragonborn. 

    Is taking the life force of the dragons similar to absorbing their souls? I wonder if Lorkhan's connection with the moons have anything to do with taking away someone's life force. 

    That's fascinating to think about...Leading on from that thought process, is it perhaps something specifically regarding Lorkhan and Dragons that leads to the life theft? I mean, and I might be off the rails a bit here. But there's a certain level of connection between the idea of the Shezzarine and the Dragonborn, and this sort of feels similar in a way. It's not as permanent as the Dragonborn's ability to steal souls, but it's still possibly something directly linking Lorkhan and Dragons.

    Or perhaps it's better to make a simpler connection linking the remains Lorkhan's with immortality. The Tribunal got their Godhood from his heart, so who's to say that there aren't ways to use his corpse in order to..seal immortality of a sort? 

    The Lorkhan thing is reallly interesting to think about here, especially as we think on this sentence:

    Khunzar-ri went to do what he did best: convince the demons to follow the lure and walk into the trap of their own free will. And that is what he did, before the Betrayer earned his name. As you shall hear.

    A betrayal (very Lorkhan) and a duality, possibly - like, two halves of a tablet representing a time god and a space god. On a semi-related note, the Sunspire trial location has a time wound where Alkosh shouted at the Whitestrake :D The Dragon God shouting at his brother's avatar.

  • April 18, 2019

    A betrayal (very Lorkhan) and a duality, possibly - like, two halves of a tablet representing a time god and a space god. On a semi-related note, the Sunspire trial location has a time wound where Alkosh shouted at the Whitestrake :D The Dragon God shouting at his brother's avatar.

    What really? That's fascinating, absolutely fascinating. The Sunspire Trial note that is, well I mean okay the rest of it is also interesting, but you know me and my Time Dragons. 

    By the way, who is the Betrayer in question? My assumption is Mannimarco since that seems to be a title he has, but is that what we're assuming the case is here or is it probably someone else? To be honest most of the characters that were mentioned kinda flew over my head a bit (Anequina and Nurarion are both somewhat familiar but I can't place the rest...and need to read up on those two). 

    Khajiiti myths are always laden with metaphor so it's hard to know exactly what they mean. There's definitely a connection with moonlight, moon sugar, and souls for the cats in the same way wind/breath is the life essence of the Nords. So the dragons' talk of "consuming the moons" could be along the lines of Alduin's world-eating and/or a way to destroy the Khajiit (like the Void Nights: Control the moons and you control the cats). It's hard to know from this source alone excatly what's going on, and I'm torn between it being literal or figurative. I mean, this sentence here:

    Gotta be honest, all I imagine now is a Dragon getting high as a kite from eating a bunch of Moon Sugar. Course that's because I'm silly but, the idea is still kinda hilarious :P

    Is the queen having a one-on-one chat with her gods, Jone and Jode, who take action on her behalf? Or is it something similar to the Elder Scroll banishing Alduin while Kyne's name is envoked? Interesting stuff either way, and the trapping of the dragons seems thematically similar to that use of the Elder Scroll in Skyrim.

    The soul-trapping in the demon-infused moonlight is cool, and that appears to be how the Dragon Tablet works. In the quest, we (Tharn) unwittingly unite both halves of this thing and unseal the door/give the dragons back their power and unleash them upon Elsweyr. That Jone and Jode provided this power is pretty interesting due to their influence on Khajiiti souls and furstock. So it could be just how the Khajiit view what happened from their own unique outlook.

    Yeah, honestly I'm more fascinated in the idea of Jone and Jode having some level of conciousness? Control over life? I'm not sure exactly what I think they're doing here (specifically that is) but it's damn fascinating and creates a very interesting potential narrative. I'm kind of interested if we're going to discover a link to the Void Nights here. Not directly of course, but if Jone and Jode can be communicated with, and their power can be tapped into to some degree then...perhaps it's something to think about regarding the VN. Just speculation and random thought of course, but it's interesting stuff so far. 

     

  • Member
    April 18, 2019
    Just a quick reply for now because I have no more information to shed any light on most things (am avoiding the story until the PC pre-release) but I have thoughts on the Betrayer. Could it be Darloc Brae? If we can pin down Queen Anequina's rule it would help establish when this occurred - Brae is 1st era 5th century so probably way too late.