Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Research: Murkmire

Tags: #ESO  #Argonians  #Research 
  • Member
    October 30, 2018

    Idea here is exactly like Karver's Research: Summerset - A place to put screenshots, lore snippets, and discussions of Murkmire lore. I'm a bit late to the party but it's fun to explore at one's own pace. So if you've got ESO and you're exploring Murkmire, please feel free to drop things of interest below :)

    Also, beware spoilers.

    You can't wander Lilmoth for more than a few minutes before the subject of Shadowscales comes up. I'm not the biggest fan of that stuff, assassins and the like don't appeal, but I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed the little quest which the following screenies come from:

    Not gonna spoil the quest, but it does involve massage oil and death...

    We also get our introduction to Argonian Grave-Stakes in this quest...

    Here's Paheiza's egg-sister's grave-stake:

    In another quest much later, a bit more on grave-stakes from this naga (also a 'Gonian):

    Randomly, Vakka Stones:

  • Member
    October 30, 2018

    Murkmire has stunning loading screen art, collected a few below with accompanying lore snippets...

  • Member
    November 1, 2018

    Some Sithis lore and the time of "stone-nests" - This was the stuff I came to Murkmire for! Lots more on this subject, but this quest more than any other really brought that Aztec concept of the Serpent to the fore. Glorious, simply glorious.

    In the dialogue, Nisswo (priest of Sithis) Xade is referring to the Teeth of Sithis Xanmeer and how an old, old priestess from ancient times has returned and her intentions...

    We ask him what he can feel...

    (Omg, this is perfect!) He asks us to destroy the shrines this Priestess is using....

    I love that ^ Sithis is change so naturally it seeks to change itself.

    We emerge victorious...

    Amazing quest.

  • Member
    November 1, 2018

    More Sithis anon, for now just another quick look at Grave-Stakes and Argonian funerals. (In this quest someone, not an Argonian, has stolen a grave-stake that Grave-Singer Xaleez was off to plant. She isn't part of the Bright Throat tribe whose village we are in. She was injured in her pursuit of the thief, which is where our involvement begins).

    A big spoiler...

    When we place the grave-stake, a tree appears out of nowhere to shade it. This was wonderful, and ties nicely with a theory from this Letter to Septimus...

  • Member
    November 2, 2018

    More Sithian and Nisswo stuff. It's very cool that these priests each have different interpretations, or insights and perspectives rather than a gospel to follow. This Nisswo is an artist...

  • November 5, 2018

    Wow, Phil, this is a lot to ponder. Thanks for taking the time to post this. Good shit for my Argonian story. Wasn't that far off the mark, which makes me pretty glad. 

  • November 6, 2018

    The beauty of change is undeniable. The crumbling stone of our foolish past. The sky bleeding red above a setting sun. The bloated face of a corpse as the skin begins to decay. Ah, to gaze upon such wonder.

    ^ Favorite quote. I don't think I've read better explanations of Sithis than what you've shared here. Judging by what Chuxu said, I'm guessing the "natural order" that Shadowscales keep is...change? That seems right considering Sulahkeesh comment about "a dispute that has lasted far too long." So here's a question -- are the Shadowscales given a degree of clairvoyance? If Sithis is change, then Sithis is the potential for all things that are nonexistent to become existent. So it makes sense that Shadowscales would assassinate certain targets to stop a set of events from occuring, or to set certain events in motion. Right? I know the Night Mother basically fills this role for the Dark Brotherhood, so the Shadowscales surely have something similar, right? 

  • Member
    November 6, 2018

    Legion said:

    I know the Night Mother basically fills this role for the Dark Brotherhood, so the Shadowscales surely have something similar, right? 

    Could it be the Hist? Since Nisswo Xode says that it was the Hist who taught them that Sithis was change then couldn't they also fill a similar role as the Nightmother for the Shadowscales?

     

  • Member
    November 6, 2018

    The Long-Chapper said:

    Wow, Phil, this is a lot to ponder. Thanks for taking the time to post this. Good shit for my Argonian story. Wasn't that far off the mark, which makes me pretty glad. 

    Thanks Lis! Yeah, it's always cool when new lore aligns with your own instincts. In the first Murkmire speculation thread, we were discussing ideas about solar worship and the importance of the sun in ancient Argonian cultures. That is pretty tied up with the ending of the story's main quest, and along the way we got hints like the Vakka Stones and the Vakka-Bok Xanmeer loadscreen:

    I found one more quite subtle snippet on this subject, a discussion with Nisswo Vaxeeh who is contemplating the close proximity of sun-temple of Vakka-Bok with that of Xul-Thuxis the Snake-Means-Death City:

    We ask what she means...

  • Member
    November 6, 2018

    Legion said:

    The beauty of change is undeniable. The crumbling stone of our foolish past. The sky bleeding red above a setting sun. The bloated face of a corpse as the skin begins to decay. Ah, to gaze upon such wonder.

    ^ Favorite quote. I don't think I've read better explanations of Sithis than what you've shared here. Judging by what Chuxu said, I'm guessing the "natural order" that Shadowscales keep is...change? That seems right considering Sulahkeesh comment about "a dispute that has lasted far too long." So here's a question -- are the Shadowscales given a degree of clairvoyance? If Sithis is change, then Sithis is the potential for all things that are nonexistent to become existent. So it makes sense that Shadowscales would assassinate certain targets to stop a set of events from occuring, or to set certain events in motion. Right? I know the Night Mother basically fills this role for the Dark Brotherhood, so the Shadowscales surely have something similar, right? 

    Golden Fool said:

    Could it be the Hist? Since Nisswo Xode says that it was the Hist who taught them that Sithis was change then couldn't they also fill a similar role as the Nightmother for the Shadowscales?

    Man, I agree. I love this expanded lore on Sithis, it works really well and is conveyed in such wonderful ways!

    Your questions are excellent, very hard to answer. I'll start with Sulahkeesh's dialogue at the end of the quest. So we've asked the two involved in this land dispute to rub oil on themselves and then come to meet Sulahkeesh. She sets them on fire, killing them. She appoints Chuxu as the owner of the plantation...

    That's as close as we get to her explaining this "natural order" the Shadowscales maintain. In this instance no clairvoyance is needed. Things like that in recent ESO stories are very subtle, and I think there is a conscious choice not to make anything too obvious. That goes for the Will of Sithis, too. Goldie might be correct in positing the Hist as the ones who impart that will, but even then Murkmire tells us the Saxhleel have a very hard time figuring out what the Hist are telling them sometimes. That's something I'll need to capture and convey in greater depth when I play the quests again, but the Hist communicate in a way that is hard even for the Argonaians, and those whose role it is to listen to the trees dedicate their lives to it iirc. As an example, in the Bright-Throat tribe's village there is Chime-Maker Shuvu. The tribe's Hist communicates to them through the sound of chimes on the breeze, and he's spent his life listening to these chimes and interpreting the meaning of the sounds. We need the Hist's guidance for reasons, and are sent to collect a missing chime. Shuvu listens but can't figure what is being said.

    So it's not as though there is anything like a Night Mother who makes it all simple (or at least that I have met thus far). I'm more inclined to think that Nisswo and Shadowscales have no direct communication with Sithis to know what to do, rather they have spent their lives in pursuit of whatever their interpretation is. As Uaxal tells us, there are a lot of truths and points of view. He spreads the dark word through art, we meet one who is all about death, one who is about balance and harmony... and they're all correct.

    To further complicate it, they have a concept of cause and effect but don't have a concept of time in the way we do. They are very much in the moment all of the time. If we think a human assassin could maybe kill a target to set something in motion or to prevent something, such things might be hard for a native Argonian to grasp. They don't have kings who suddenly need to die or any of the normal reasons we're used to seeing. The Shadowscale role might be to bring about needed change as it stands right now, the outcome of that change is less important than the change itself.

    But I'm rambling. Of more value than my opinions and possibly providing far more insight is the last lesson from our Nisswo artist Uaxal. After completing his quest (which was to gather parts of ancient monuments, build them up, then destroy them) we get to ask him "What is Sithis?"