Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


The Old Gods of the Reachmen?

Tags: #Forsworn  #Religion  #Mythology 
  • Member
    September 25, 2018

    While this question may have been answered somewhere in the bowels of the Lore Group, I have a question. Aside from Hircine (Due to Hagraven influence and the whole antlered/horned skin helmets some Forsworn wear), what gods do they worship? I recall some scant references to their being Old Gods or the like (And its probably NOT the Great Old Ones...though an ES Cosmic Horror story would be neat), are these Spriggans? A syncretized mixture of Aedra and Daedra? Help?

  • September 26, 2018

    Orcs often say they are Malacath's children. My tribe would argue. Reachmen are taught that Orcs, ogres, and trolls are merely used by Malacath to test his true chosen race - the people of the Reach.

    If you ask me, both are wrong. The Lord of Ash and Bone doesn't care for any of us. This worship of him is folly and will be the ruin of us all.

    Take this token, for example, this Vengeful Eye my tribe searches so fervently for in dank tombs. The blood that has spilled needlessly for this meaningless trinket is beyond measure. The feud between the Orcs and my tribe has gone on for centuries. Our shamans claim Malacath demands one of us carry the Eye in his name, but the Orcs claim it belongs to them.

    Both sides are blind to the strings that make them dance.

    That is all we are to the Daedra. Playthings for their amusement. Their gifts are poisoned. To think otherwise is foolish. Yet we live in a world of fools, each thinking they are somehow different. Somehow special. We kill and we die for this belief while the Daedra smile on. Malacath and the Reach

     

    Arthenice Belloq says, “The clan that held me, the Crow-Wives, are primarily worshipers of Namira, though I sometimes heard them utter oaths naming other Daedra Lords. The only active reverence I witnessed among the Reachmen was for Daedric Princes. That said, the clan did possess other strange totems, ancient fetishes I couldn't identify. They were never named within my hearing, and I never asked about them."

    Arthenice Belloq says, “I believe the Reachmen associate the Princes with nature because they are tribal barbarians, and brute nature is all they know. They disdain civilization and the civilized, which I think is why they have no use for the more 'sophisticated' Princes such as Sanguine and Clavicus Vile. Subtlety and nuance, they believe, are for the weak." Loremaster's Archive

     

    The following is the transcribed statement of a shaman of Druadach who named himself Uraccanach the Witchman:

    "Like the fingers of your hand, like the clutch of the hagraven, like the arrows to kill a bear, Five are the Aspects of Lord Hircine. You may meet any of the Five. All are true and right and death-in-the-woods. All are worthy of reverence.

    "You may meet the Hunter, who is invoked as Alrabeg. He bears the Spear of Bitter Mercy. He comes here from the Hunting Grounds to hunt new prey, or he brings prey native to the Hunting Grounds, like the Unicorn, to hunt in new forests. If he brings not prey, then woe betide you who meet him, for he may dub you the Hare. Then you must flee as best you can, though you will not escape.

    "You may meet the Manbeast, who is invoked as Storihbeg. He wears the Wolf Skull Totem and his growl is like a landslide in the Karth Gorge. He comes here to hunt with his children the Skinshifters, or to adopt new children and turn them pelt-side-out. His howl will freeze your inwards like a pond in Evening Star at midnight—you will see your death approach, but be unable to flee.

    "You man meet the Great Stag, who is invoked as Uricanbeg, and whose hooves drum the Blood Summons. He comes to mate with the hinds, and may transform a comely woman for that purpose, or to cull the herd of the weak. Those who hear his drumbeat are doomed to run with the herd, and may follow him back to the Hunting Grounds where they will be chased and unmade."

    "You may meet the Quick Fox, who is invoked as Gulibeg, and who wields the Wand of Bone. He comes here to confound mortal hunters, to run them in circles until they are so plexed and wildered that they follow him over a cliff or into a trackless mire. He may fill you with such fury you can do naught but pursue him, or he may note you as clever and teach you his tricks.

    "You may meet the Mighty Bear, who is invoked as Hrokkibeg. He embodies the Totem of Claw and Fang, and comes here seeking solitude, peace from labors, and renewal of the Burning Spirit Within. Beware, for if you rouse him and disturb his serenity you will be torn asunder. But if you approach him with deference and an offering of honey-sweet mead, he may grant you the power of the Bear-Heart in your next fight.

    "These are the Five—there are no more, and any who say so are witless and foolish. So states Uraccanach, and whenever have I been proven false? I have said it, and it is so. Pass the juniper-draught." Aspects of Lord Hircine

    You can tie most of the Princes to the nature, such as Bal, Dagon, though as the Archive says Reachmen don't have much use for Vile and Sanguine, who are sort of closely tied to "civilization". Mephala and Boethia also sound as unlikely candicates, but who knows? 

    In a way it always seemed to me like the Reachmen and their pantheon...well, it seems like the Princes are mean to be used instead of Kyne/Kynareth, but broken down into several Daedric pieces. 

  • Member
    September 26, 2018

    Shadow Arm said:

    Orcs often say they are Malacath's children. My tribe would argue. Reachmen are taught that Orcs, ogres, and trolls are merely used by Malacath to test his true chosen race - the people of the Reach.

    If you ask me, both are wrong. The Lord of Ash and Bone doesn't care for any of us. This worship of him is folly and will be the ruin of us all.

    Take this token, for example, this Vengeful Eye my tribe searches so fervently for in dank tombs. The blood that has spilled needlessly for this meaningless trinket is beyond measure. The feud between the Orcs and my tribe has gone on for centuries. Our shamans claim Malacath demands one of us carry the Eye in his name, but the Orcs claim it belongs to them.

    Both sides are blind to the strings that make them dance.

    That is all we are to the Daedra. Playthings for their amusement. Their gifts are poisoned. To think otherwise is foolish. Yet we live in a world of fools, each thinking they are somehow different. Somehow special. We kill and we die for this belief while the Daedra smile on. Malacath and the Reach

     

    Arthenice Belloq says, “The clan that held me, the Crow-Wives, are primarily worshipers of Namira, though I sometimes heard them utter oaths naming other Daedra Lords. The only active reverence I witnessed among the Reachmen was for Daedric Princes. That said, the clan did possess other strange totems, ancient fetishes I couldn't identify. They were never named within my hearing, and I never asked about them."

    Arthenice Belloq says, “I believe the Reachmen associate the Princes with nature because they are tribal barbarians, and brute nature is all they know. They disdain civilization and the civilized, which I think is why they have no use for the more 'sophisticated' Princes such as Sanguine and Clavicus Vile. Subtlety and nuance, they believe, are for the weak." Loremaster's Archive

     

    The following is the transcribed statement of a shaman of Druadach who named himself Uraccanach the Witchman:

    "Like the fingers of your hand, like the clutch of the hagraven, like the arrows to kill a bear, Five are the Aspects of Lord Hircine. You may meet any of the Five. All are true and right and death-in-the-woods. All are worthy of reverence.

    "You may meet the Hunter, who is invoked as Alrabeg. He bears the Spear of Bitter Mercy. He comes here from the Hunting Grounds to hunt new prey, or he brings prey native to the Hunting Grounds, like the Unicorn, to hunt in new forests. If he brings not prey, then woe betide you who meet him, for he may dub you the Hare. Then you must flee as best you can, though you will not escape.

    "You may meet the Manbeast, who is invoked as Storihbeg. He wears the Wolf Skull Totem and his growl is like a landslide in the Karth Gorge. He comes here to hunt with his children the Skinshifters, or to adopt new children and turn them pelt-side-out. His howl will freeze your inwards like a pond in Evening Star at midnight—you will see your death approach, but be unable to flee.

    "You man meet the Great Stag, who is invoked as Uricanbeg, and whose hooves drum the Blood Summons. He comes to mate with the hinds, and may transform a comely woman for that purpose, or to cull the herd of the weak. Those who hear his drumbeat are doomed to run with the herd, and may follow him back to the Hunting Grounds where they will be chased and unmade."

    "You may meet the Quick Fox, who is invoked as Gulibeg, and who wields the Wand of Bone. He comes here to confound mortal hunters, to run them in circles until they are so plexed and wildered that they follow him over a cliff or into a trackless mire. He may fill you with such fury you can do naught but pursue him, or he may note you as clever and teach you his tricks.

    "You may meet the Mighty Bear, who is invoked as Hrokkibeg. He embodies the Totem of Claw and Fang, and comes here seeking solitude, peace from labors, and renewal of the Burning Spirit Within. Beware, for if you rouse him and disturb his serenity you will be torn asunder. But if you approach him with deference and an offering of honey-sweet mead, he may grant you the power of the Bear-Heart in your next fight.

    "These are the Five—there are no more, and any who say so are witless and foolish. So states Uraccanach, and whenever have I been proven false? I have said it, and it is so. Pass the juniper-draught." Aspects of Lord Hircine

    You can tie most of the Princes to the nature, such as Bal, Dagon, though as the Archive says Reachmen don't have much use for Vile and Sanguine, who are sort of closely tied to "civilization". Mephala and Boethia also sound as unlikely candicates, but who knows? 

    In a way it always seemed to me like the Reachmen and their pantheon...well, it seems like the Princes are mean to be used instead of Kyne/Kynareth, but broken down into several Daedric pieces. 

    Thanks Karvs (I think). I knew about the Aspects thing, makes me think of, among others, the Celtic Cernunnos. Wonder if there's any correlation, even though the Bretons seem to be a bit more France than Celts persay

  • Member
    September 26, 2018

    Chris said:

    Shadow Arm said:

    Orcs often say they are Malacath's children. My tribe would argue. Reachmen are taught that Orcs, ogres, and trolls are merely used by Malacath to test his true chosen race - the people of the Reach.

    If you ask me, both are wrong. The Lord of Ash and Bone doesn't care for any of us. This worship of him is folly and will be the ruin of us all.

    Take this token, for example, this Vengeful Eye my tribe searches so fervently for in dank tombs. The blood that has spilled needlessly for this meaningless trinket is beyond measure. The feud between the Orcs and my tribe has gone on for centuries. Our shamans claim Malacath demands one of us carry the Eye in his name, but the Orcs claim it belongs to them.

    Both sides are blind to the strings that make them dance.

    That is all we are to the Daedra. Playthings for their amusement. Their gifts are poisoned. To think otherwise is foolish. Yet we live in a world of fools, each thinking they are somehow different. Somehow special. We kill and we die for this belief while the Daedra smile on. Malacath and the Reach

     

    Arthenice Belloq says, “The clan that held me, the Crow-Wives, are primarily worshipers of Namira, though I sometimes heard them utter oaths naming other Daedra Lords. The only active reverence I witnessed among the Reachmen was for Daedric Princes. That said, the clan did possess other strange totems, ancient fetishes I couldn't identify. They were never named within my hearing, and I never asked about them."

    Arthenice Belloq says, “I believe the Reachmen associate the Princes with nature because they are tribal barbarians, and brute nature is all they know. They disdain civilization and the civilized, which I think is why they have no use for the more 'sophisticated' Princes such as Sanguine and Clavicus Vile. Subtlety and nuance, they believe, are for the weak." Loremaster's Archive

     

    The following is the transcribed statement of a shaman of Druadach who named himself Uraccanach the Witchman:

    "Like the fingers of your hand, like the clutch of the hagraven, like the arrows to kill a bear, Five are the Aspects of Lord Hircine. You may meet any of the Five. All are true and right and death-in-the-woods. All are worthy of reverence.

    "You may meet the Hunter, who is invoked as Alrabeg. He bears the Spear of Bitter Mercy. He comes here from the Hunting Grounds to hunt new prey, or he brings prey native to the Hunting Grounds, like the Unicorn, to hunt in new forests. If he brings not prey, then woe betide you who meet him, for he may dub you the Hare. Then you must flee as best you can, though you will not escape.

    "You may meet the Manbeast, who is invoked as Storihbeg. He wears the Wolf Skull Totem and his growl is like a landslide in the Karth Gorge. He comes here to hunt with his children the Skinshifters, or to adopt new children and turn them pelt-side-out. His howl will freeze your inwards like a pond in Evening Star at midnight—you will see your death approach, but be unable to flee.

    "You man meet the Great Stag, who is invoked as Uricanbeg, and whose hooves drum the Blood Summons. He comes to mate with the hinds, and may transform a comely woman for that purpose, or to cull the herd of the weak. Those who hear his drumbeat are doomed to run with the herd, and may follow him back to the Hunting Grounds where they will be chased and unmade."

    "You may meet the Quick Fox, who is invoked as Gulibeg, and who wields the Wand of Bone. He comes here to confound mortal hunters, to run them in circles until they are so plexed and wildered that they follow him over a cliff or into a trackless mire. He may fill you with such fury you can do naught but pursue him, or he may note you as clever and teach you his tricks.

    "You may meet the Mighty Bear, who is invoked as Hrokkibeg. He embodies the Totem of Claw and Fang, and comes here seeking solitude, peace from labors, and renewal of the Burning Spirit Within. Beware, for if you rouse him and disturb his serenity you will be torn asunder. But if you approach him with deference and an offering of honey-sweet mead, he may grant you the power of the Bear-Heart in your next fight.

    "These are the Five—there are no more, and any who say so are witless and foolish. So states Uraccanach, and whenever have I been proven false? I have said it, and it is so. Pass the juniper-draught." Aspects of Lord Hircine

    You can tie most of the Princes to the nature, such as Bal, Dagon, though as the Archive says Reachmen don't have much use for Vile and Sanguine, who are sort of closely tied to "civilization". Mephala and Boethia also sound as unlikely candicates, but who knows? 

    In a way it always seemed to me like the Reachmen and their pantheon...well, it seems like the Princes are mean to be used instead of Kyne/Kynareth, but broken down into several Daedric pieces. 

    Thanks Karvs (I think). I knew about the Aspects thing, makes me think of, among others, the Celtic Cernunnos. Wonder if there's any correlation, even though the Bretons seem to be a bit more France than Celts persay

    Riffing on the above and the Cernunnos thing, it might be fun to explore a few things in From Nedes to Reachmen and look at the Celestials and some of the carvings. I think there may be ways to move the Reachmen a bit away from the Daedra, or include other things as well as that Daedric veneration. Always fun to reinterpret.

  • Member
    September 26, 2018

    Paws said:

    Chris said:

    Shadow Arm said:

    Orcs often say they are Malacath's children. My tribe would argue. Reachmen are taught that Orcs, ogres, and trolls are merely used by Malacath to test his true chosen race - the people of the Reach.

    If you ask me, both are wrong. The Lord of Ash and Bone doesn't care for any of us. This worship of him is folly and will be the ruin of us all.

    Take this token, for example, this Vengeful Eye my tribe searches so fervently for in dank tombs. The blood that has spilled needlessly for this meaningless trinket is beyond measure. The feud between the Orcs and my tribe has gone on for centuries. Our shamans claim Malacath demands one of us carry the Eye in his name, but the Orcs claim it belongs to them.

    Both sides are blind to the strings that make them dance.

    That is all we are to the Daedra. Playthings for their amusement. Their gifts are poisoned. To think otherwise is foolish. Yet we live in a world of fools, each thinking they are somehow different. Somehow special. We kill and we die for this belief while the Daedra smile on. Malacath and the Reach

     

    Arthenice Belloq says, “The clan that held me, the Crow-Wives, are primarily worshipers of Namira, though I sometimes heard them utter oaths naming other Daedra Lords. The only active reverence I witnessed among the Reachmen was for Daedric Princes. That said, the clan did possess other strange totems, ancient fetishes I couldn't identify. They were never named within my hearing, and I never asked about them."

    Arthenice Belloq says, “I believe the Reachmen associate the Princes with nature because they are tribal barbarians, and brute nature is all they know. They disdain civilization and the civilized, which I think is why they have no use for the more 'sophisticated' Princes such as Sanguine and Clavicus Vile. Subtlety and nuance, they believe, are for the weak." Loremaster's Archive

     

    The following is the transcribed statement of a shaman of Druadach who named himself Uraccanach the Witchman:

    "Like the fingers of your hand, like the clutch of the hagraven, like the arrows to kill a bear, Five are the Aspects of Lord Hircine. You may meet any of the Five. All are true and right and death-in-the-woods. All are worthy of reverence.

    "You may meet the Hunter, who is invoked as Alrabeg. He bears the Spear of Bitter Mercy. He comes here from the Hunting Grounds to hunt new prey, or he brings prey native to the Hunting Grounds, like the Unicorn, to hunt in new forests. If he brings not prey, then woe betide you who meet him, for he may dub you the Hare. Then you must flee as best you can, though you will not escape.

    "You may meet the Manbeast, who is invoked as Storihbeg. He wears the Wolf Skull Totem and his growl is like a landslide in the Karth Gorge. He comes here to hunt with his children the Skinshifters, or to adopt new children and turn them pelt-side-out. His howl will freeze your inwards like a pond in Evening Star at midnight—you will see your death approach, but be unable to flee.

    "You man meet the Great Stag, who is invoked as Uricanbeg, and whose hooves drum the Blood Summons. He comes to mate with the hinds, and may transform a comely woman for that purpose, or to cull the herd of the weak. Those who hear his drumbeat are doomed to run with the herd, and may follow him back to the Hunting Grounds where they will be chased and unmade."

    "You may meet the Quick Fox, who is invoked as Gulibeg, and who wields the Wand of Bone. He comes here to confound mortal hunters, to run them in circles until they are so plexed and wildered that they follow him over a cliff or into a trackless mire. He may fill you with such fury you can do naught but pursue him, or he may note you as clever and teach you his tricks.

    "You may meet the Mighty Bear, who is invoked as Hrokkibeg. He embodies the Totem of Claw and Fang, and comes here seeking solitude, peace from labors, and renewal of the Burning Spirit Within. Beware, for if you rouse him and disturb his serenity you will be torn asunder. But if you approach him with deference and an offering of honey-sweet mead, he may grant you the power of the Bear-Heart in your next fight.

    "These are the Five—there are no more, and any who say so are witless and foolish. So states Uraccanach, and whenever have I been proven false? I have said it, and it is so. Pass the juniper-draught." Aspects of Lord Hircine

    You can tie most of the Princes to the nature, such as Bal, Dagon, though as the Archive says Reachmen don't have much use for Vile and Sanguine, who are sort of closely tied to "civilization". Mephala and Boethia also sound as unlikely candicates, but who knows? 

    In a way it always seemed to me like the Reachmen and their pantheon...well, it seems like the Princes are mean to be used instead of Kyne/Kynareth, but broken down into several Daedric pieces. 

    Thanks Karvs (I think). I knew about the Aspects thing, makes me think of, among others, the Celtic Cernunnos. Wonder if there's any correlation, even though the Bretons seem to be a bit more France than Celts persay

    Riffing on the above and the Cernunnos thing, it might be fun to explore a few things in From Nedes to Reachmen and look at the Celestials and some of the carvings. I think there may be ways to move the Reachmen a bit away from the Daedra, or include other things as well as that Daedric veneration. Always fun to reinterpret.

    Sweet. I'll see what I can come up with

     

  • September 26, 2018

    The more I learn, the less I like these guys...

    Recently I was leafing through the books my nerdy Thalmor hoards in his room in Winterhold and found a mention of some witch (though I suspect she was a Breton rather than a Reachman witch) speaking of conjuration and connecting it with, well, Kynareth... After that, I think nothing can surprise me anymore...

  • Member
    September 26, 2018

    Justiciar Thorien said:

    The more I learn, the less I like these guys...

    Recently I was leafing through the books my nerdy Thalmor hoards in his room in Winterhold and found a mention of some witch (though I suspect she was a Breton rather than a Reachman witch) speaking of conjuration and connecting it with, well, Kynareth... After that, I think nothing can surprise me anymore...

    I mean, you could see it in a Fantasy Druid way, like summong the spirits of animals, granting life and elemental properties to, in essence, golems....

  • September 26, 2018

    It seems like this is very much like how she was seeing it. But we know where all the summons really come from. Well, I guess, this kind of witch may be not the most reliable of sources regarding the nature of things, if I had to learn about that, I would rather read anything with the Psijics. In fact, the same witch speaks of Psijics too, and in a rather condescending manner at that, which demonstrates more of her ignorance. But her words illustrate the way she and her people believe things to be, no matter how nonsensical.

    These here are very nice insights into the Reachman worldview. The way that Witchman speaks of Hircine shows a great deal of fear, which is absolutely normal, yet makes me wonder if all of the Reachman mindset is filled with the same mood. Is there anything to them that doesn't involve fear, blood and death? Do they have any positive beliefs and values?

    Also

    Shadow Arm said:

    Orcs often say they are Malacath's children. My tribe would argue. Reachmen are taught that Orcs, ogres, and trolls are merely used by Malacath to test his true chosen race - the people of the Reach.

    Orcs (or those who would become Orcs) at least were around when Malacath came to be, while the Reachmen... didn't even exist as a nation, so it seems like wishful thinking is a big thing here))) Not to even mention that putting Orcs in the same row with ogres and trolls is a sheer idiocy ignorance.

  • Member
    September 26, 2018

    Justiciar Thorien said:

    It seems like this is very much like how she was seeing it. But we know where all the summons really come from. Well, I guess, this kind of witch may be not the most reliable of sources regarding the nature of things, if I had to learn about that, I would rather read anything with the Psijics. In fact, the same witch speaks of Psijics too, and in a rather condescending manner at that, which demonstrates more of her ignorance. But her words illustrate the way she and her people believe things to be, no matter how nonsensical.

    These here are very nice insights into the Reachman worldview. The way that Witchman speaks of Hircine shows a great deal of fear, which is absolutely normal, yet makes me wonder if all of the Reachman mindset is filled with the same mood. Is there anything to them that doesn't involve fear, blood and death? Do they have any positive beliefs and values?

    Well, it depends, are speaking more of the Forsworn, Madanach-sympathizing Reachmen, or ones like Ainethatch, who, though Reachmen by birth, don't display the savagery of their fellows, and are hard working business owners.

  • Member
    September 26, 2018

    Justiciar Thorien said:

    It seems like this is very much like how she was seeing it. But we know where all the summons really come from. Well, I guess, this kind of witch may be not the most reliable of sources regarding the nature of things, if I had to learn about that, I would rather read anything with the Psijics. In fact, the same witch speaks of Psijics too, and in a rather condescending manner at that, which demonstrates more of her ignorance. But her words illustrate the way she and her people believe things to be, no matter how nonsensical.

    These here are very nice insights into the Reachman worldview. The way that Witchman speaks of Hircine shows a great deal of fear, which is absolutely normal, yet makes me wonder if all of the Reachman mindset is filled with the same mood. Is there anything to them that doesn't involve fear, blood and death? Do they have any positive beliefs and values?

    Also

    Shadow Arm said:

    Orcs often say they are Malacath's children. My tribe would argue. Reachmen are taught that Orcs, ogres, and trolls are merely used by Malacath to test his true chosen race - the people of the Reach.

    Orcs (or those who would become Orcs) at least were around when Malacath came to be, while the Reachmen... didn't even exist as a nation, so it seems like wishful thinking is a big thing here))) Not to even mention that putting Orcs in the same row with ogres and trolls is a sheer idiocy ignorance.

    Then we have Faolan, also known as the Red Eagle. He managed to unite the Reachmen under one banner, and in essence was a lot like early versions of King Arthur. A noble man in his own right, yes, but also a warlord, akin to a God of War in his ferocity (Though while he may have a magic sword, he's missing a magic dagger and magic lance), and he DOES fight an analogue to the Roman Empire....