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Talos: Does he was a Dragonborn? - Simple question...

    • 224 posts
    December 30, 2019 12:58 AM EST

     

     

    Does Talos was a Dragonborn?, and If was so does that implies his soul was a Dragonborn soul?, dragons are shards of Akatosh?, so Dragonborns too?, that would mean that Dragonborn souls are not even mortal but divine souls? Does Talos was a Divine!!??... 

    Considering all the concept about Talos and different lore and stories about it or him, what do you think? Does Talos soul was a Dragonborn soul?, would be nice If you comment back give some references too, wether be lore. ingame references [as in game npcs, quest, books, notes, etc.], etc.

    • 1588 posts
    January 5, 2020 2:35 AM EST

    The answer isn't quite so simple because Talos is a rather complicated figure to talk about. To start with, Talos appears to be the amalgamation of three individuals, Hjalit Early-Beard, Wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus who took part in an enantiomorphic event. The best source for this is the Arcturian Heresy:

    The Underking arrives and is ambushed by Imperial guards. As he takes them on, Zurin Arctus uses a soulgem on him. With his last breath, the Underking's Heart roars a hole through the Battlemage's chest. In the end, everyone is dead, the Underking has reverted back to ash, and Tiber Septim strolls in to take the soulgem.

    Which is sort of backed up with a bit of a propaganda spin in the Prophet's dialogue from KotN:

    And Talos said to the Arctus, "Let us join as one to fortify this throne, this land, these people, each one glorious under heaven!"

    To make it more confusing, Talos is a title given to Hjalti (anon Tiber Septim) meaning Stormcrown rather than a person. Again from the Heresy:

    Hjalti was a shrewd tactician, and his small band of Colovian troops and Nord berserkers broke the Reachman line, forcing them back beyond the gates of Old Hrol'dan. A siege seemed impossible, as Hjalti could expect no reinforcements from Falkreath. That night a storm came and visited Hjalti's camp. It spoke with him in his tent. At dawn, Hjalti went up to the gates, and the storm followed just above his head. Arrows could not penetrate the winds around him. He shouted down the walls of Old Hrol'dan, and his men poured in. After their victory, the Nords called Hjalti Talos, or Stormcrown.

    The Stormcrown above his head is Wulfharth, but according to the Heresy, it isn't Wulfharth who is the Dragonborn:

    Though the Empire has crumbled, there are rumors that a chosen one will come to restore it. This new Emperor will defeat the Elves and rule a united Tamriel. Naturally, Wulfharth thinks he is the figure of prophecy. He goes directly to High Hrothgar to hear the Greybeards speak. When they do, Ysmir is blasted to ash again. He is not the chosen one. It is a warrior youth from High Rock. As the Grey Wind goes to find this boy, he hears the Greybeards' warning: remember the color of betrayal, King Wulfharth.

    We also have no indication that Zurin Arctus is a Dragonborn. Shezarrine maybe, but not Dragonborn. So of the three beings who make up the Talos soul, only Hjalti has the dragonblood. Technically speaking, of course. By now we have enough evidence to say that Shezarr/Lorkhan is as much Akatosh as Akotosh is.

    "O Aka, for our shared madness I do this! I watch you watching me watching back! Umaril dares call us out, for that is how we made him!"

    The Missing God, the "same-twin at the other end of the aurbilical cord" is of the same stuff that Akotosh is made of. That really does blur the line of our neat concept of categorising souls as it leads us to question whether or not Shezarrines have a dragon soul.

    Anyway, the whole enantiomorph thing leads to the soul-fusion of the three players in the drama and the ascension of the Talos soul to godhood. This puts the Missing God back on the map. Missing no longer, he's now there in the form of Talos. No matter which way we look at it, I don't think there's any escaping the fact Talos is divine.

    • 224 posts
    January 17, 2020 12:11 AM EST

    Hi Paws!, thanks for reply, about:
    " A siege seemed impossible, as Hjalti could expect no reinforcements from Falkreath. That night a storm came and visited Hjalti's camp. It spoke with him in his tent. At dawn, Hjalti went up to the gates, and the storm followed just above his head. Arrows could not penetrate the winds around him. He shouted down the walls of Old Hrol'dan, and his men poured in"

    that sounds for me a lot of Hjalti related with the Tu'um Storm Call Shout

     

    I don't get why you say that "The Stormcrown above his head is Wulfharth"

    • 1588 posts
    January 17, 2020 10:58 AM EST
    Hi Medi! It’s pretty much all in the Arcturian Heresy (and a bit from Five Songs of King Wulfharth) and we can learn a lot about Wulfharth from those two books. It’s roughly along these lines: Wulfharth was an ancient High King of Skyrim and powerful Tongue who, during the Battle of Red Mountain long after his death, was called back to life as the Ash King. After the battle he gets blown back to Skyrim where he becomes known as the Grey Wind, Kyne’s Storm, and The Underking. There he goes quiet for centuries (gets called back to fight the Akaviri prior to the events of ESO) until the Greybeards call for the Dovahkiin. He assumes he’s the one and goes to High Hrothgar where he gets told this being is a dude from High Rock, Wulfharth goes looking for him.

    The Heresy’s narrative cuts to Hjalti who’s visited by a storm in the night. The next day the storm follows above his head and lends him a degree of invincibility, and with the storm’s protection he shouts down the gates of Hroldan. It’s not explicitly stated, but we can infer that it’s this storm going as far as to lend him the power to shout. What is this storm if not Wulfharth Kyne’s Storm? Hjalti's men call him "Talos" meaning "Stormcrown" after this.

    The use of the voice gets highlighted farther along in the text when Hjalti sends Wulfharth away to deal with Imperial expansion into Skyrim because, and quite suddenly, the roaring Talosian conquests become quiet. There’s an implication there Hjalti cannot shout unless he has Wulfharth with him. Or that Wulfharth is the one who has been doing the shouting the whole time. In the orthodoxy, it’s Hjalti’s throat getting slit which stops his use of the voice. The division of where Wulfarth ends and where Hjalti begins is almost intentionally blurred by this point. In any case, to assume Hjalti can shout just because he’s Dragonborn is not necessarily accurate.

    All that said, we can't assume the Heresy is accurate either. However, if the storm isn't Wulfharth, then we need to explain how Hjalti learned a shout like Stormcall. The events of TES V suggest Hjalti was sent on the same trial to get Jurgen's horn as our Last Dragonborn was. Unlike our LDB, though, there are no dragons for him to slay and empower any words he's learnt. So how does Hjalti learn Stormcall?

    Do you see what I mean? Wulfharth being the shouter of the Talos group does make a lot of sense and a far more interesting and challenging plot.