Forums » Elder Scrolls

POLL Who was telling the truth in 'In my time of need'?

    • 773 posts
    February 1, 2019 4:37 AM EST

    Trying a bit an experiment this month - with a poll that posits a moral dilemma from Elder Scrolls.

    We're all, I am sure, VERY familiar with the Whiterun quest 'In my time of need' - where you are faced with deciding whether Saadia or Kematu are telling you the truth. But which of them is being honest, and which is lying?

    Vote in the poll and give your reasons on this thread!

    If those poll goes well, we can have other 'moral choice' threads from Elder Scrolls and Fallout in coming months!

    • 393 posts
    February 1, 2019 8:10 AM EST

    Now this is a hilarious poll)) I'll be first.

    Both are lying.

    Saadia is saying that she spoke out against the Aldmeri Dominion and now Kematu & Co. want to take her to Hammerfell for an execution. Which is obvious nonsense. It's 4E 201. There are no Thalmor in Hammerfell since 4E 180. So who is going to execute her in Hammerfell for speaking out against the Aldmeri Dominion? Her fellow Redguards? Seriously?

    Then Kematu is also speaking nonsense. He says that in Hammerfell, the resistance against the Dominion (which is not there since 4E 180) is still alive. Uh-huh))

    • 320 posts
    February 1, 2019 9:55 AM EST

    Yeah, I remembered this quest. Always went with Kematu, because mainly I don't trust thots. But then I heard there was a way you could kill both of them, so I went with that option for the rest of my character playthroughs.

    Justiciar Thorien said:

    Both are lying.

    Saadia is saying that she spoke out against the Aldmeri Dominion and now Kematu & Co. want to take her to Hammerfell for an execution. Which is obvious nonsense. It's 4E 201. There are no Thalmor in Hammerfell since 4E 180. So who is going to execute her in Hammerfell for speaking out against the Aldmeri Dominion? Her fellow Redguards? Seriously?

    Then Kematu is also speaking nonsense. He says that in Hammerfell, the resistance against the Dominion (which is not there since 4E 180) is still alive. Uh-huh))

    Yeah, you're right about that. A lot of what they say does indeed not make any sense. 

    I guess you could be forgiven for believing either of them the first time you play Skyrim. But the second or third time, especially after you read about the Great War? Not really. Most lies usually have a grain of truth in them, but in this case, both sides are blatantly lying to us by stating things that contradict current day events in Hammerfell.

    To me, the quest just didn't give the impression of a morally-driven quest because we don't know what really happened with Saadia to have her get chased down by the Alik'r warriors, and it didn't help that both sides refuse to even provide us with a bit of the truth. Instead they claim that "this person or that person was working for the Aldmeri Dominion" just so the players have more reasons to hate on the Thalmor.

    Sometimes I wished, that there was a hidden "third option" in the quest where, after reading about the Great War, we can call out on Saadia or Kematu on their lies and have them reveal the truth, or at least some of it, to us.

     

     

    • 61 posts
    February 1, 2019 10:04 AM EST

    A-Pocky-Hah! said:

    I don't trust thots.

    Even as a joke that sentence just makes me cringe.

     

    You might as well say you didn't trust any of them because they were black. hAha, bIGoTry Is sO FUnNy!


    This post was edited by Tysoyaha at February 1, 2019 10:08 AM EST
    • 393 posts
    February 1, 2019 10:22 AM EST

    Tysoyaha said:

    A-Pocky-Hah! said:

    I don't trust thots.

    Even as a joke that sentence just makes me cringe.

    Uh, I can't help but agree... very very much so...

    A-Pocky-Hah! said:

    I guess you could be forgiven for believing either of them the first time you play Skyrim.

    When I played Skyrim the first time, long before doing this quest, I went to the Sleeping Giant Inn, and there lay the book about the Great War. So the words of both Saadia and Kematu make me raise an eyebrow. I had thought about the choice for quite some time, and in the end came up with a decision. It doesn't really matter who is lying. In the end, it's a bunch of warriors who aren't above paying to bandits against a lone civilian woman. Even if 20+ years ago she sold her city out to the Thalmor, now she is just a peaceful barmaid who isn't harming anyone, and it's definitely not our place to pass judgement on her, especially aince we don't know what really happened. Because of this, I always side with Saadia.

    And if she diid sell the city to the Dominion, that's all the more reason to help her, if one is a Thalmor oneself.


    This post was edited by Justiciar Thorien at February 1, 2019 10:26 AM EST
    • 271 posts
    February 1, 2019 1:23 PM EST

    It all depends on the character, but from the perspective of Walks-In-Darkness... fuck 'em both. I talk to Saadia and just drop the quest after that, don't bother with Kematu. If I have to choose between 2 snakes in a basket, I'd walk off.


    This post was edited by Ebonslayer at February 1, 2019 1:23 PM EST
    • 1437 posts
    February 1, 2019 2:27 PM EST

    Justiciar Thorien said:

    Tysoyaha said:

    A-Pocky-Hah! said:

    I don't trust thots.

    Even as a joke that sentence just makes me cringe.

    Uh, I can't help but agree... very very much so...

    A-Pocky-Hah! said:

    I guess you could be forgiven for believing either of them the first time you play Skyrim.

    When I played Skyrim the first time, long before doing this quest, I went to the Sleeping Giant Inn, and there lay the book about the Great War. So the words of both Saadia and Kematu make me raise an eyebrow. I had thought about the choice for quite some time, and in the end came up with a decision. It doesn't really matter who is lying. In the end, it's a bunch of warriors who aren't above paying to bandits against a lone civilian woman. Even if 20+ years ago she sold her city out to the Thalmor, now she is just a peaceful barmaid who isn't harming anyone, and it's definitely not our place to pass judgement on her, especially aince we don't know what really happened. Because of this, I always side with Saadia.

    And if she diid sell the city to the Dominion, that's all the more reason to help her, if one is a Thalmor oneself.

    Wait, doesn't the Dominion own half of Hammerfell due to the Concordat?

    • 165 posts
    February 1, 2019 4:00 PM EST

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irdj0czQTJM        -  This is all I have to say. :D

    Edit: Oh I see someone already mentioned the content of the video above. *thumbs up*  That being said Kematu should be lying as well but for some reason I stopped doing this quest in my playthroughs not sure why it just felt like a chore most of the times rather than an OK quest.


    This post was edited by Duvain at February 1, 2019 4:09 PM EST
    • 393 posts
    February 1, 2019 4:37 PM EST

    Chris said:

    Wait, doesn't the Dominion own half of Hammerfell due to the Concordat?

    According to the Concordat, yes. Which is the reason why Hammerfell refused to accept the Concordat, and the Emperor had to declare it no longer a part of the Empire. After which, the war continued for 5 more years between the Dominion and independent Hammerfell, and ended in 4E180 with a peace treaty, according to which the Dominion had to withdraw its armies from Hammerfell.

    The Great War


    This post was edited by Justiciar Thorien at February 1, 2019 4:39 PM EST
    • 1437 posts
    February 1, 2019 5:02 PM EST
    Justiciar Thorien said:

    Chris said:

    Wait, doesn't the Dominion own half of Hammerfell due to the Concordat?

    According to the Concordat, yes. Which is the reason why Hammerfell refused to accept the Concordat, and the Emperor had to declare it no longer a part of the Empire. After which, the war continued for 5 more years between the Dominion and independent Hammerfell, and ended in 4E180 with a peace treaty, according to which the Dominion had to withdraw its armies from Hammerfell.

    The Great War

    Oh, for some reason I thought they had troops still there. Didn't the Empire have "rogue" Legionnaires there to help the resistance.
    • 393 posts
    February 1, 2019 5:06 PM EST

    Chris said: Oh, for some reason I thought they had troops still there. Didn't the Empire have "rogue" Legionnaires there to help the resistance.

    They did, yes. But that was in 4E175. Basically, the information Kematu tells us could be true... if he was telling it 25 or so years ago.

    • 1437 posts
    February 1, 2019 5:44 PM EST
    Justiciar Thorien said:

    Chris said: Oh, for some reason I thought they had troops still there. Didn't the Empire have "rogue" Legionnaires there to help the resistance.

    They did, yes. But that was in 4E175. Basically, the information Kematu tells us could be true... if he was telling it 25 or so years ago.

    I mean, it is possible there is an anti-Imperial/Thalmor movement, but yeah
    • 747 posts
    February 1, 2019 5:56 PM EST

    Justiciar Thorien said:

    Chris said: Oh, for some reason I thought they had troops still there. Didn't the Empire have "rogue" Legionnaires there to help the resistance.

    They did, yes. But that was in 4E175. Basically, the information Kematu tells us could be true... if he was telling it 25 or so years ago.

    I wonder if Bethesda realized that when they were writing this quest.

    • 393 posts
    February 1, 2019 6:01 PM EST

    Chris said: I mean, it is possible there is an anti-Imperial/Thalmor movement, but yeah

    Hammerfell itself is now pretty anti-Imperial, with the way they think the Empire has betrayed them. And if there was any Thalmor movement, that would be a direct violation of their peace treaty. Also, the word "resistence" makes me imagine a territory completely under the enemy control, with the local population/government forced into the role of rebels. Which would mean that the war is going on. Which is not the case, since there is a peace treaty.

    Mr. Edd said:

    I wonder if Bethesda realized that when they were writing this quest.

    Judging by the attitude Bethesda has demostrated... I think they realized everything, but didn't consider us intelligent enough to put two and two together and decided to not bother.


    This post was edited by Justiciar Thorien at February 1, 2019 6:04 PM EST
    • 747 posts
    February 1, 2019 6:02 PM EST

    It's been a long time and I never really cared about this quest, but I usually sided with Saadia, mostly because I didn't like the idea of handling a lone person I had never heard anything about to a bunch of people I had never heard anything about. Also, having that in mind, to me she was just some woman working at an inn, and the other guys were warriors hiding on a cave. And those guys used curved swords. Curved. Swords. Can you believe that?

    But anyway, now that Thorien has brought this information, I agree with her: they're both lying.

    • 393 posts
    February 1, 2019 6:12 PM EST

    Mr. Edd said:

    It's been a long time and I never really cared about this quest, but I usually sided with Saadia, mostly because I didn't like the idea of handling a lone person I had never heard anything about to a bunch of people I had never heard anything about. Also, having that in mind, to me she was just some woman working at an inn, and the other guys were warriors hiding on a cave. And those guys used curved swords. Curved. Swords. Can you believe that?

    But anyway, now that Thorien has brought this information, I agree with her: they're both lying.

    I have been thinking along the same lines. Well, except I don't give a toss about the shape of their swords)))


    This post was edited by Justiciar Thorien at February 1, 2019 6:12 PM EST
    • 121 posts
    February 1, 2019 9:40 PM EST

    I'm of the opinoin that Kematu is more right than Saadia is, because those Redguards seem to have a personal beef with her rather than hunting her down for a job. I'm sure none of them are giving the full story, but that's what I've inferred.

    • 1440 posts
    February 3, 2019 2:56 AM EST

    Hammerfell itself is now pretty anti-Imperial, with the way they think the Empire has betrayed them. And if there was any Thalmor movement, that would be a direct violation of their peace treaty. Also, the word "resistence" makes me imagine a territory completely under the enemy control, with the local population/government forced into the role of rebels. Which would mean that the war is going on. Which is not the case, since there is a peace treaty.

    I mean, to be fair it's not like the Thalmor are exactly well known for keeping their word. That is all, I pretty much agree with you on every point so yeah :)

    • 393 posts
    February 3, 2019 4:21 AM EST

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    I mean, to be fair it's not like the Thalmor are exactly well known for keeping their word. That is all, I pretty much agree with you on every point so yeah :)

    Governments in general aren't known for keeping their word to enemies. However that's not about keeping words. If they violated the oeace treaty, there would be a new war. And to come if we are speaking of cities under enemy control and local governments reduced to "resistences", it would have to be a really big war. If there was such a war, we surely would hear about it. Yet we don't. So there is currently no war between the Dominion and Hammerfell.

    Though I'm pretty sure the Thalmor have their spies there, just like everywhere else.

    • 44 posts
    February 4, 2019 5:38 AM EST

    Personally I think both are liers. Ciel'nn, on the other hand, believed Saadia because he tends to help ladies in distress (ha ha), and Kematu's men felt hostile to him.