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RPGs: What Have You Learned?

    • 743 posts
    October 5, 2018 2:03 PM EDT

    Most often, I tend to look way too much into things. RPGs, with their everlasting worlds and the lore that surrounds them, is no exception. This is why I believe that certain RPGs, ones that let you pretty much make your character from scratch, give similar effects of learning about oneself that you would find by writing your own story. My question to you: what sort of characters do you default at making? Gameplay, roleplay or lack of, your choices still do reflect a bit about yourself

    For example, a lot of my TES characters tend to major in Speech. As someone who has an interest in psychology, I credit that interest to me using Speech all the time. Not to mention it saves 100+ hours of gameplay :p

    Honestly, the majority of skills I pick are just because I enjoy them. And I know it's the same for most people. But, for the sake of variety, look a little deeper into why you pick certain skills frequently and see if there's more too it than "I just find it fun".

    Overanalyzing is my new hobby, lmao.

     

    • 1529 posts
    October 5, 2018 3:26 PM EDT
    I think I'm similar in terms of going for speech or persuade in any rpg. Probably drummed into me from Bioware titles in which being a charming or downright scary sonovabitch unlocks some very interesting dialogue, not to mention saves on legwork. Plus, in a Bioware game, if you're not thinking "which dialogue option leads to sex" you're playing it wrong.

    So I suppose I've learned to ask why my character is such s charming prick or frightening tusker. Making that skill part of his personality rather than just a gameplay boon. In a game like Skyrim it's harder as there is no snappy banter. It's like it all takes place only in the imagination. I mean, your Nord Barbarian telling stories in the tavern or intimidating a local... We get very little clue as to what actually happens and can only imagine him shaking his fist like Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino. But that's fun, too, creating that mental image as to what actually transpires when you choose a speech related option.
    • 117 posts
    October 5, 2018 3:38 PM EDT

    I’ve been playing games like these and RPing in MMOs for decades. I know I prefer to play someone able to do some of everything, particularly with magic. It’s one of the reasons I have trouble playing a build in these sorts of games that has a narrow and specific area of expertise. There is too much to do, and I want to do it all!

    I also know that I’m hardly as charming as my characters or half as good a writer as I wish I were. :p

    • 127 posts
    October 5, 2018 4:47 PM EDT

    Interesting topic. Well, I really like mmorpgs and my main character in every mmorpg since I began playing such games like 14 years ago was always a healer. Funny thing is that the first time I made a healer was because I saw many people not being able to direct battles properly and also I couldn't trust others to do so since I went through some shit with failed raids, pvp and such. :P

    After starting to play healers I noticed that I was quite successful and sticked with that. I also saw that I had good analytical skills and "gaming awareness" even though back then when I made my first healer I was like 13. Now that also can reflect a bit in real life since I have great interest in Management but in real life this department is much more difficult and stressful compared to directing people in games :P just one spell could deplete all of your magicka reserves! :(

    Comming into the rpg side I will just talk about my default main character in Skyrim. When I made my main character in Skyrim I just thought who would I be based on my characteristtics and who would I want to be if I were to be suddenly dropped into Skyrim and given some choises (skills, magic etc) and picked something in the middle which is a nerd wizard / arcane warrior Altmer seeking perfection but he 's in it mostly to enjoy the journey to said perfection. 

    Also I think that most people put some of their own characteristics in their main characters because in most cases these roleplay games can give some sort of "freedom" in what you would like to do or be if you had a way to chose. 


    This post was edited by Duvain at October 5, 2018 5:07 PM EDT
    • 248 posts
    October 5, 2018 7:16 PM EDT

    I gravitate towards stealth characters like assassins, hunters, thieves, etc. I do this in nearly every RPG game I've played (though that's not a particularly large amount). In Destiny I main a Nightstalker Hunter or Bladedancer, in TES games I play my Ebonslayers, in Mass Effect I play an Infiltrator, Stealth Archer Rogue in Dragon Age, etc.

    I also like to build my characters to be duty-bound yet slightly unwilling heroes. In Destiny I roleplay my character instead tries to travel the void for knowledge and gets swept up in the game's events, in TES my characters are usually thrust into the hero role out of absolutely nowhere, in Mass Effect my Shepard really wants nothing to do with the Reapers but knows he's the only one who can do it, and my Inquisitor and Warden in Dragon Age hate their roles for some time as they were all but stolen from their Dalish elf clans.

    • 141 posts
    October 5, 2018 7:23 PM EDT
    I gravitate toward stealthy assassins more than likely because I like to play games while avoiding confrontation. Joining this group has pulled me out of my shell a bit and I’ve played straight warrior and straight mage classes, which never held any appeal for me before. Hell, in Oblivion, by level 20 or so my character would have 100% chameleon effect and I could walk around wherever I wanted with no one reacting to me at all, like I didn’t even exist. It was the best. But I still tend to want to go my own way and do my own thing, and I can’t play any games where you’re forced to interact with people you don’t specifically choose to to get where you want to go. Like Assassin’s Creed, where people are constantly asking you for things, getting in your way, etc. I get panicky in game just like I do in real life, apparently. Shy and introverted and socially awkward transcends technology.
    This post was edited by ilanisilver at October 5, 2018 7:31 PM EDT
    • 64 posts
    October 5, 2018 7:25 PM EDT

     I do it Like Duvain. I wondered what i would do if i were in Skyrim. So i moddeled him after me and it became my Go to Character.I Love Conjuration/Summoning. I just dont like to be the Center of Attention so i Mainly play a Supporter or Healer. Im reserved and laid back and like to stay out of most Things im not very Biased on Anything so My Character is Neutral Good. Im Fascinated by the Body and How it Works but Also by old Tales about Dark Magic So if i get the Option i will Pick the Necromancer Class. I love to do Research and Read and Learn about New Things so I Always play Scholarly Characters Like Mages ^^ 

    i Play The Adept in Mass Effect and a Warlock in Destiny and an Archmage in Dragon's Dogma.

    I Used to only Play Assassins when i was Young because Its Badass but i Mellowed out and now if i Play my beloved Stealth Games i Play as a Ghost. No Kills and like i was never even there.

    RPG's helped me find out all this about myself because I never really thought about this Stuff before ^^. 


    This post was edited by Vezrabuto at October 5, 2018 7:34 PM EDT
    • 349 posts
    October 5, 2018 7:55 PM EDT

    Wow, some psychology stuff here, my favorite))) There be a wall of text, beware)

    Over the years (Twenty years! Twenty!) that I've been playing, I've learned quite a few things. The most general one, regardless of the game I'm playing, is that I'm unable to play an evil character. I can do some shades of grey, but my first choice is always lawful good. No matter how I've tried, a self-centered asshole who kills without hesitation is something I just can't do. It leaves that horrible empty feeling inside, you know. Don't know why, maybe some silly part of me just wants to see some good in the world, even if it's only in a fictional world. Duty, honor, selflessness and wisdom are things I greatly value, and since there's not much of them IRL, I like to have them at least in games. For that reason, my character is often a person who is doing their duty/following a purpose greater than themselves. Though it doesn't necessarily have to be the main quest. While my casteless Dwarf Warden in DAO is very proud of her newfound purpose, my Qunari Inquisitor who can't admit to herself that she has become a Tal-Vashoth, and my Thalmor Dragonborn have their own visions of the greater good.

    When I create my first character in a new game, most likely it will be a mage or a sneaky type, it's a real joy for me when I can make the mix of the two. I love magic because it's both powerful and sophisticated, and in most cases it's tied to knowledge and learning. In my eyes a scholar archetype is absolutely superior to some brute with a big sword who only uses his head to eat and speak nonsense. I like stealth for a silmilar reason, it's a style that requires using one's brain. Which is sort of ironic, sinse IRL I am very far from any sort of sophisticated person, if anything, I'm what people would call a dumb blonde, minus the looks. Maybe it's my wishful thinking manifesting, lol.

    And I also always go for Speech, because it often unlocks more interesting options, and because it sometimes allows to solve a conflict without bloodshed.

    Another typical thing about my characters is that they are rarely human. I find playing a human boring and restricting, because humans are generally limited and in the end they are all the same. Living a fictional life as a human when you can be an Altmer or Dwarf or a Qunari instead, it's kind of waste of time. Really, I'm already a human in the real life and can't say I'm very happy or proud of that, being reminded ever so often of what kind of monsters humans can be, so I'll always want to explore something different. And if I do play a human, there definitely will be something different about them, some unorthodox worldview or an inner conflict. My Shepard, between fighting Reapers tended to be thinking about how things could have been if the ways of the humanity were different or if she was something different than a human. And my Hawke wishes he could become a viddathari.

    A thing that surprised me greatly when I first came to the site is how many people make their main character an avatar of themselves. I've never ever played a "me" character. I find the very idea as much thrilling as, say, filling a yearly tax report))) Most of my characters, of course, share some qualities with me, it's inevitable, but they have each their own story and personality, different from mine. I create them primarily for myself as I enjoy exploring their stories, and nothing could be more boring than telling my own story to myself, even if it's set in another world, lol. Nope, all the fun for me is in seeing another world through the eyes of someone who truly belongs to that world. I especially love BioWare games for that feeling of your character being a part of the world. Skyrim is somewhat lacking in that aspect, you have to add all those details in your head. Though Skyrim totally wins in the potential of creating a unique story, which I love even more.

    Now that I look at what I just wrote, it seems like the conclusion is sort of obvious, but well, creative thinking is not exactly my strong side. The ultimate thing I've learned is that playing RPGs can give you a lot of insight into your own soul and sometimes even into others'. You can really travel a multiverse, because every soul is a world, even a fictional one.


    This post was edited by Justiciar Thorien at October 5, 2018 8:32 PM EDT
    • 1251 posts
    October 6, 2018 9:50 AM EDT

    My playstyle is...well it's changed a lot over the years so I've got plenty to talk about :P I've been playing RPG's since I was about 5 years old (starting real early with stuff like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Morrowind, KoTOR, etc.) so, you know the methods I've had have evolved over the years, or even as the genre itself has changed.

    General Playstyle

    To start, I've always been a gameplay focused person, obviously as a child you just care about getting the big numbers so you can hit things hard, but I've always been of the opinion that I'd rather create an optimized character than a shity one. Now to be fair, it doesn't mean that my character is 'powerful', my favourite example is my love for High-Charisma/Wisdom Clerics, who can't really dish out damage and only really work effectively as Healers/Undead Turners. To date my favourite playthrough of a game was my very first Neverwinter Nights completion, which was done with a Human Cleric (obviously, you don't run anything but unless you want that base 20 Dex/Con :P) who couldn't fight for shit, but ended up being able to heal at a pretty aweome rate. Even more than that would be characters like a Trapper or Fencer, I love those sorts of characters even though your DPS is always going to be shit, just because they take a fair bit of skill or really, really precise character creation to properly pull off. That's probably why I hate the actual application of Bards in most RPG's (or at least most D&D based RPG's) while the idea of a Jack-of-all-Trades is awesome, and I'd love to play someone who can do everything well (even if it's not perfectly) I hate that Bards are usually eclipsed in every manner by some other class. That's not really true in everything, but enough that it's ruined Bards for me for the most part.

    So imagine Child-DB, making ridiculously powerful characters and playing around with optimizing characters for hours on end, and you kinda understand the basics of my playstyle. Obviously it's grown more complex, but at heart I always like to create characters that are excellent at doing certain things, maybe have a secondary talent but suck at everything else. I'd rather run an 18 Strength, 8 Dex, 18 Con, 8 Intelligence, etc. sorta Warrior than a 14's across the board sort of Warrior, just my preference and how I play.

    Favourite Classes/Races

    This is actually a place where my favourites have remained the same for...pretty much every game and every part of my life. I love playing Clerics, Tanks and Two-Handed Warriors. Simply put, if I have my way I like to remain alive for as long as possible (still dish out damage to an extent) and Heal People. I don't know if there's really a deeper meaning to it, you could probably come up with something for just about any combination but I think it's just me enjoying the idea of staying alive in combat :P

    Oh but I do want to discuss my preferences on Mages, because it's something that I find really difficult to place. Partially it's because Mages are different in just about all games, for example I love Barrier Mages in DA: I because they're really fucking cool, defensive Mages in general are really fun to run and I wish more games allowed you to really manipulate the battlefield because Control Mages would be my dream playstyle. But, then we have the problem that so many games decide that if you have high Defensive Capabilities, you can't dish out damage in any manner...Which makes logical sense, but I like to at least be 'decent' in combat.

     

    Will talk more tommorow, wanted to get some stuff down but there's a lot to talk about for me :P

    • 126 posts
    October 9, 2018 12:02 PM EDT

    I tend towards playing the Do-gooder.  The one person who will stand up and do what they must, not necessarily out of a want to be the hero, but because they think they should.  I find it next to impossible to play evil characters because I'm not, well, evil.  Play what you know, and all that jazz.

    It's an archetype that appeals to me because I believe in doing good, even if others don't.  I return the money when I've been given too much change, I turn in the dropped wallet with about 40 bucks in it, I hold open the door and greet people with a smile.  I do it because it feels right, not because I want to be acknowledged as a good person.  It bleeds in to my playstyle, and in MMOs I take on the role of a mediator for the petty arguments that always seem to occur in global chats.  It's usually a pointless endeavour, but I'd feel scummy if I didn't at least try.

    I've said it somewhere on the site before, but I was heavily inspired in real life by a character I role-played in Skyrim.  That character is the reason for my handle here on this site and others, because that's who I want to emulate.  He was not a hero, he made many mistakes and held to them, but he always tried, and was always kind.  He took a chance on the little people, and always gave them the option to save themselves, but didn't hesitate to jump in if he needed to (and he needed to, frequently).  He was curious, he was driven, and he always saw it throughy to the end, even if he didn't want to.  he was a good guy, if not a hero.

    I want to be the Good Guy, so I will always make the Good Guy in a game if given the chance.

     

    Oh look, I got mildly preachy again.  What are the odds?

    • 349 posts
    October 9, 2018 12:28 PM EDT

    Wow, I'm so glad there are people like you out there. People like me. And I'm not alone like this. Thought maybe something's wrong with me, lol.

    • 743 posts
    October 9, 2018 1:18 PM EDT

    Justiciar Thorien said:

    Wow, I'm so glad there are people like you out there. People like me. And I'm not alone like this. Thought maybe something's wrong with me, lol.

    I agree, lol. Thought I was alone.

    Really great and interesting answers, everyone!

    • 743 posts
    October 9, 2018 1:29 PM EDT

    ilanisilver said: I gravitate toward stealthy assassins more than likely because I like to play games while avoiding confrontation. Joining this group has pulled me out of my shell a bit and I’ve played straight warrior and straight mage classes, which never held any appeal for me before. Hell, in Oblivion, by level 20 or so my character would have 100% chameleon effect and I could walk around wherever I wanted with no one reacting to me at all, like I didn’t even exist. It was the best. But I still tend to want to go my own way and do my own thing, and I can’t play any games where you’re forced to interact with people you don’t specifically choose to to get where you want to go. Like Assassin’s Creed, where people are constantly asking you for things, getting in your way, etc. I get panicky in game just like I do in real life, apparently. Shy and introverted and socially awkward transcends technology.

    I can totally relate. I play stealthy characters because I enjoy the idea of being responsible, but not being recognized. Gameplay in the shadows makes that a literal aspect. I think that's actually why I enjoy Assassin's Creed's original storylines. The public doesn't hail you as a savior for taking out a corrupt leader. At most, you're recognized by people in your organization, lol. It's just satisfying to me in a storytelling fashion. 

    • 141 posts
    October 9, 2018 3:27 PM EDT

    Rogue said:

     

    I can totally relate. I play stealthy characters because I enjoy the idea of being responsible, but not being recognized. Gameplay in the shadows makes that a literal aspect. I think that's actually why I enjoy Assassin's Creed's original storylines. The public doesn't hail you as a savior for taking out a corrupt leader. At most, you're recognized by people in your organization, lol. It's just satisfying to me in a storytelling fashion. 

    oh, yeah the storyline of Assassin’s Creed is amazing. And the detail and artistry, just fantastic. I loved watching it, watching my friends play. But when I tried to play I couldn’t handle all the interference. At one point I threw the controller back to my friend and had to get up, it made me so uncomfortable. I get that’s not normal, but you do what you gotta do, right? 

    And I absolutely get you guys Who don’t want to play evil. Doing the Dark Brotherhood questlines make me feel terrible. I finished it once for each game (Oblivion and Skyrim), and won’t do it again, past joining to get the wordwall. The one quest in Oblivion where you have to kill a whole family is just heart wrenching. 

    • 349 posts
    October 9, 2018 5:18 PM EDT

    ilanisilver said:

    And I absolutely get you guys Who don’t want to play evil. Doing the Dark Brotherhood questlines make me feel terrible. I finished it once for each game (Oblivion and Skyrim), and won’t do it again, past joining to get the wordwall. The one quest in Oblivion where you have to kill a whole family is just heart wrenching. 

    It's not that I don't want, I actually do want. But can't. I've never done the DB questline. All the time I just kill Astrid because I can't kill innocent people just because some psycho bitch said so. Only once I forced myself to do it and joined. Though once in the sanctuary, I had another dialogue with Astrid... and realized that I just can't. 

    • 141 posts
    October 9, 2018 5:46 PM EDT

    Justiciar Thorien said:

    ilanisilver said:

    And I absolutely get you guys Who don’t want to play evil. Doing the Dark Brotherhood questlines make me feel terrible. I finished it once for each game (Oblivion and Skyrim), and won’t do it again, past joining to get the wordwall. The one quest in Oblivion where you have to kill a whole family is just heart wrenching. 

    It's not that I don't want, I actually do want. But can't. I've never done the DB questline. All the time I just kill Astrid because I can't kill innocent people just because some psycho bitch said so. Only once I forced myself to do it and joined. Though once in the sanctuary, I had another dialogue with Astrid... and realized that I just can't. 

    eh, i have no trouble killing Vasha, not because Astrid tells me to do so, but because he’s a confessed rapist and murderer. I feel pretty good about it, honestly. But yeah, the rest of it, no thanks. They’re all awful. My characters tend to lean to the good side, but chaotic good. I don’t have time for law. ;)

     

    • 349 posts
    October 9, 2018 5:59 PM EDT

    ilanisilver said:

    eh, i have no trouble killing Vasha, not because Astrid tells me to do so, but because he’s a confessed rapist and murderer. I feel pretty good about it, honestly. But yeah, the rest of it, no thanks. They’re all awful. My characters tend to lean to the good side, but chaotic good. I don’t have time for law. ;)

     

    I have trouble killing even him. He might say anything, but if he is a criminal it's the guards' mission to deal with him, not my character's, who also hasn't actually seen him committing any crime. Also I wouldn't kill any of the three just because that's what Astrid wants.

    I have one chaotic good character, a rather volatile Thalmor-turned-vampire. Yet even she won't kill anyone without a good reason, like that person attacking her or trying to kill someone right in front of her, etc. That one is fun to play, but doesn't exactly fit with my own state of mind. I feel more comfortable playing my main Thalmor, the lawful good one, though I can't say he is completely white, more like very pale grey.

    • 248 posts
    October 9, 2018 6:09 PM EDT

    Rogue said:

    I can totally relate. I play stealthy characters because I enjoy the idea of being responsible, but not being recognized. Gameplay in the shadows makes that a literal aspect. I think that's actually why I enjoy Assassin's Creed's original storylines. The public doesn't hail you as a savior for taking out a corrupt leader. At most, you're recognized by people in your organization, lol. It's just satisfying to me in a storytelling fashion. 

    I do much of the same in the TES series but instead of going all-in "noexistent to the public eye" my characters only start out as such and while they're off saving the world they become well-known. Nobody knows what they were in the past, and these characters are not at all eager to share it, but to the public eye they become heroes and are forced to adopt the role due to the Crisis. It's not all public, though, as these characters still (mostly) retain ties to the Dark Brotherhood and will still carry out contracts.

    • 141 posts
    October 9, 2018 6:18 PM EDT

    I guess what people consider good and evil just depends, maybe? Because even reading everything I can get my hands on about the Thalmor and why they’re doing what they’re doing - historically, culturally, theologically - I wouldn’t classify any Thalmor who ascribes to what they’re doing as good. Lawful, absolutely, but not good. I believe that the Thalmor believe they’re good, that they’re doing the right thing, but I don’t agree. Even though I don’t think the pro-Talos side is swimming in goodness either, and I think Talos was an asshole. And I don’t think it’s a judgment about either one of us - rather maybe what we think of when we think of what good is. If you see the Thalmor as a good character to play, you must read the same stuff and come to a different conclusion than I have, and that’s something to think about. Playing as a Thalmor makes me feel the way you feel when you play your version of an evil character. I tried to do that a month or so ago and had to quit at level 2. 

     


    This post was edited by ilanisilver at October 9, 2018 6:52 PM EDT
    • 64 posts
    October 9, 2018 6:33 PM EDT
    Evil depends on whos perspective it is seen trough. When the Empire executes Stormcloaks they think its the just thing. When an adventurer slaughters some Goblins then to the Goblins He is Evil. Ther was a scene in Dragons Dogma about this. What is your purpose here, Arisen? If you sought to live you had naught but run and hide yourself away. But then, tell me, child of man... what does it mean to live in truth? To wage war against the passing days? To pray to the unseen for a few breaths more? To raise grand cities from stone, and spawn new life in turn? Mankind has done this, yes, and more. But is the tapestry you weave truly of your own design?"
    • 349 posts
    October 9, 2018 7:22 PM EDT

    ilanisilver said:

    I guess what people consider good and evil just depends, maybe? Because even reading everything I can get my hands on about the Thalmor and why they’re doing what they’re doing - historically, culturally, theologically - I wouldn’t classify any Thalmor who ascribes to what they’re doing as good. Lawful, absolutely, but not good. I believe that the Thalmor believe they’re good, that they’re doing the right thing, but I don’t agree. Even though I don’t think the pro-Talos side is swimming in goodness either, and I think Talos was an asshole. And I don’t think it’s a judgment about either one of us - rather maybe what we think of when we think of what good is. If you see the Thalmor as a good character to play, you must read the same stuff and come to a different conclusion than I have, and that’s something to think about. Playing as a Thalmor makes me feel the way you feel when you play your version of an evil character. I tried to do that a month or so ago and had to quit at level 2. 

     

    Yes, seems like it depends. I wonder what you read? I have read everything there is about the Thalmor, the Altmer, the men vs.mer conflict, Lorkhan, Talos, all that stuff, everything I could find. And I think that the Thalmor are right. As I see it, the Altmer are more worthy of ruling Tamriel than the Imperials or anyone else. And I think that the cult of Talos, who is indeed an asshole, but that's the least of the reasons I think so, must be stopped and forgotten forever.

    I don't say the Thalmor are saint or without flaw, and like in any faction, there are all kinds of people, some good, some less so. But their cause is right in my eyes.

    And, lol, even a thought about creating a character who worships Talos, or even simply a warmongering barbaric Nord, or really any kind of guy that falls into that archetype, mskes me feel such disgust I just can't stand it, even worse than playing a simply evil character. It's simple, really. To me, such a fellow is an example of a man who lets that ugly, dark part that lives in every man, take over. He embraces it, maybe even reveres it. Instead of striving to be better than he is, searching wisdom, overcoming his flaws, he chooses ignorance, degradation, chaos and darkness. Such a guy is worse than even Lorkhan himself, he at least knew what he was doing, or thought that he knows. Even a thought of stepping in the shoes of such a fellow, it makes me feel... unclean.

    Also, to think of it, the Thalmor haven't done anything that the men hadn't done before. If anything, there are things that the men have done and the elves never had. How exactly they are more evil, huh?


    This post was edited by Justiciar Thorien at October 9, 2018 7:54 PM EDT
    • 141 posts
    October 9, 2018 9:27 PM EDT

    I was planning a story that never got written, but it had to do with the Thalmor wanting to unmake the world because Lorkhan and divinity and getting involved with the Alduin issue, so I spent hours one weekend while my husband was away going way way way down the Reddit TESLORE hole. So, yeah, all the history, and the Altmer do have legitimate complaints against Talos and the empire. I get that, no problem. 

    And no, no one’s completely saintly or completely flawed - but I see the opposite; their cause - their overall philosophy - is wrong in my eyes. Even if there are good mer within the faction who think they’re working for the greater good, it doesn’t matter to me. The ends don’t justify the means. And I’m just never ok with any faction or system that penalizes or rewards belief or private action that doesn’t concern them. Stay out of my head, out of my house, out of my bedroom, etc. No matter their beef with Talos or Tiber Septim or whoever the hell he was, it doesn’t give them license to kill people for believing. And as far as what worshipping Talos looks like, it depends on the actions. If all they’re doing is praying, that might be annoying, but it’s none of their business. If all they’re doing is activating a shrine, that might be annoying, but it’s none of their business. Now, if worshipping Talos means going to war, that’s where their right to worship eats into other more important rights, and that’s where someone can smack them down and tell them to fuck off. But otherwise, there’s no reason to kill simply because of belief. Just, never is. In this, I feel the same way toward the Vigilants of Stendarr. 

    Even given their history (back on the Thalmor, not the Vigilants), and their long lives, and even longer memories, I’m not ok with joining a conquering faction, when the people they’re conquering aren’t responsible for their past oppression in the first place. Defense? Yes. Revenge against the people currently involved in the oppression, yes. But in my view, what the Thalmor are doing isn’t that. Even if they are worthy to rule, if they have to conquer and kill and oppress to reach that goal, I don’t think it’s a worthy goal. 

    And if the MK lore about killing man and reaching heaven and erasing Talos from the mythic and returning to their divinity and all that is real, I still don’t care. It’s not good enough, not nearly good enough. Sure, it helps them out, but it’s not a good enough reason to force everyone to their will and eventually kill them. That’s not a greater good for anyone but the Altmer, unless I’ve got it completely wrong. “but you guys, listen to reason. If we kill your god and kill you, we’ll get all the best stuff. You’ll be erased from possibility, sure, but we’ll be divine!” 

    So they either want to conquer the world or unmake it? Neither of those things are at all attractive to me. And yes, men have done horrendously evil things before, most definitely, and I’d not want to play a character involved in a lot of what went on in TES history. But I’m not lumping all elves, or even all Altmer into my character embargo - only the Thalmor. So, when I play a human, which I always do simply because I have more fun playing humans, it’s never someone who espouses the qualities I set out above. Matter of fact, I’ve never played a character who worshipped Talos, or a Vigilant, either. My only Stormcloak character in the 7 years I’ve played came about 2 months ago, and that was only for a story, and it was someone who didn’t give two shits about Talos, just wanted to use Ulfric to cause chaos in the Empire. I’m just not a fan of religion at all, so my characters tend not to be, either. The closest I get is Thunderchild where my character “worships” Kyne, and that’s really only to get cool Shouting effects. Or one of my characters who “worshipped” Daedra, but it was only to achieve their knowledge, not out of any sort of love or obeisance. Or even regard, really.

    So given that, I mightn’t be able to feel the same pull toward theology that a Thalmor would, but still...oppressing and killing to conquer the world isn’t ok. It wasn’t ok when Tiber Septim did it, and it’s not ok now. Oppressing and killing to unmake the world or remake it and their own race regain its divinity isn’t ok either. I get where it might be from their point of view, but it’s just not enough to get me on board. I don’t see the Thalmor seeking wisdom or overcoming their flaws, and it seems like a dark, cold place they’re coming from.

    So yeah, that’s why I’m not onboard with the Thalmor philosophy, the Thalmor cause, being good. And I’m not saying anything about people who do respect the Thalmor or come to different conclusions than I do. I can very easily be wrong about lots of things, and very often am. 

     


    This post was edited by ilanisilver at October 9, 2018 10:49 PM EDT
    • 127 posts
    October 9, 2018 10:05 PM EDT

    I get what you people say about playing good guys but I never had that problem to a degree of not being able to play the DB at least maybe because of my habit to look at everything from a third person perspective (did some studies in history so you need to learn that if you want to go some way in that field). My first character was actually a Breton assassin only did DB and othing else. To be honest out of all the big questlines in the game DB is the best I think (just for skyrim because skyrim's questlines can't compare to oblivion's at least) and don't let me get started on main quest and College of Winterhold, I just hope at ES 6 I 'll be able to play a mage and enjoy the relevant questline which will not be something someone would think and write while doing some recreation time in his toilet like CoW seems to be... CoW was dissapointing to say the least (haters gunna hate had to take that off my chest :D).

    But yeah if you manage to get into the character's profile and why he became a thief or assassin it's not impossible to play such a character I believe.

    I also prefer to make good guys in general or to be more presise I like the chaotic good alignment the most and maybe sometimes chaotic neutral but this is a bit harder to stay in character because there are times that you have to refuse requests to help etc so this is not so much for those who follow the good archetype.

    Regarding the Man vs Mer thing well i consider none good or bad. For me there are only those people from both sides who wish to assert control over many and gain power and to do that they just have to manipulate the population and drag their nations / countries along with them be it men or mer it doesn't matter, it is the exact same thing with our world. There are also a few exceptions that big fights / wars will be done for survival like in cases such as the Redguards comming from Yokuda, Snow elves, Nords especially in this case of Snow Elves vs Nords I don't consider any of the two evil even though both wanted to wipe out each other completely it is just an extreme reaction you see for survival, never underestimate survival insticts. Even saints that like to do only good like the characters you described they would certainly take up a sword or spell and go to war if it entails theirs and their kin's/family's survival.

    Edit: Keep in mind both those who rule Summerset and the Empire are just that, rulers. To these rulers who use expansive policies most of the time their kingdom and its people are mostly assets. They are numbers that have more depth and meaning and will help them to achieve their end goals. Now how every ruler thinks and what importance sees in these assets and numbers depends on many circumstances and also how many he can give up. So even if the outside is good in every case there is the inside of every ruler that is driven by personal feelings which could be ambition, greed, pride etc. I will never believe any ruler (not only in the game even in real life) be it man, mer or even animals who use expansive policies which do not aim in survival that they are doing it for revenge or the good of their people and others, it is always the drive of the few for power taking advantage of situations and controling the many.

    In regards to the talk about the Thalmor. Well, I like Altmers and they are my favorite race but not the Thalmor. I won't go into detail here as to why I don't like them I 'll just say that they don't seem to be the brightest of the lot among Altmers.

    Coming to the main point I can also never play as a Thalmor due to the fact that they are flawed in many areas and they do not represent anything of what I like in regards to the Altmer race and society.


    This post was edited by Duvain at October 9, 2018 10:49 PM EDT
    • 301 posts
    October 9, 2018 10:06 PM EDT
    I really have a love-hate relationship with Thalmor. I want to sympathize with them, but at the same time, I can't. Given what Skyrim gave us about the Thalmor, it's hard to paint them in a better light (and it doesn't even help with the Altmers' outwardly arrogant personality). When I read about what Tiber did, I felt pity for the Altmer, but then I'm reminded of what the Thalmor did over the course of the Fourth Era. If Bethesda didn't paint them as these Fantasy Nazis in Skyrim then perhaps my initial thoughts on them would be different. Also, I think the whole unmake Mundus plot is something that the Thalmor inner circle only know. The lower ranks just follow orders and all that.
    I feel like the Thalmor is a case of the oppressed becoming the oppressors, but taken into the extreme with the whole unmake Mundus master plan.
    • 127 posts
    October 9, 2018 10:08 PM EDT

    The unmake of Mundus is not offcial lore by Bethesda I think it is a theory of Michael Kirkbride I might be wrong though.

    Edit: Just noticed Ilani's comment it is indeed from MK.


    This post was edited by Duvain at October 9, 2018 10:16 PM EDT