Forums » Fallout

Fallout 76 - Character Creation System?

    • 1467 posts
    June 12, 2018 1:04 AM EDT

    So with the knowledge that we may be getting more information within the week as the 'Making of Fallout 76 Documentary' is released, I wanted to bring up yet another topic to chat about. This is one that interests me more because it's incredibly difficult for me to personally pin down. The discussion regarding what Fallout 76's character creation should be like is...tough, even if we just examine it as another Fallout game without relaly focusing too much on the online aspects. There are parts of Fallout (pre-4) that I enjoyed, the Skills System, the traits being a really cool thing and honestly I kind of really liked the entire process of making a character in Fallout 1 (just did it). BUT, Fallout 4's perk system is something I personally prefer to the older systems, where it's a bit more like Skyrim's than Fallout's. But that has flaws, afterall it does negate, or reduce the impact of the skills system...

    BAh, I can debate it myself for hours :P But that's the question I want to pose.

    How do you think Bethesda is going to tackle the Character Creation?

    Fallout 76 Discussion Archive


    This post was edited by SpookyBorn2021 at June 12, 2018 1:47 AM EDT
    • 33 posts
    June 12, 2018 2:19 PM EDT

    Strength: I don't see any reason to change much of how Strength works in Fallout; carry weight, melee damage, weapon handling. Strength-heavy users would likely be a sort of beacon around which the whole party gathers as they move: a pack mule for ammo, bringing in heavy artillery and maybe a super-sledge as a backup.

    Perception: Perception might be useful for enemy markers, along with energy weapons, traps, lockpicking, and explosives. A perception character plays really well into the role of a supporter, shooting enemies from the back with Gauss rifles, handling the direction the caravan moves, and sometimes moving to the front to pop open locks and check for traps hidden in weapon caches.

    Endurance: Doing as it does, Endurance characters would get high resistances to radiation, along with high health and possibly natural DT or DR. This makes them useful for tanking, obviously, but may also play a crucial role in scouting, as they wouldn't be in as much danger from radiation or enemies.

    Charisma: Dump stat. There is only one reason why Charisma MIGHT be useful in a multiplayer game: Nerve, giving allies in a certain range a bonus to attack damage or armor, and even that is too little to consider investing.

    Intelligence: Having high Intelligence gives good repair, science, medicine, and EXP. An Intelligence-based character naturally falls into an entirely support character, healing, crafting, and only in desperate circumstances, unlocking terminals. They would get increased EXP from any actions, so there will probably be some sort of nerf that will come into place as more points are put into this stat.

    Agility: Having anybody on the entire server be capable of stopping time on command would make it primo troll territory, so either VATS will go completely or it will be revamped in some complicated new way. Also, while it is very good at dealing with your average raider or feral, sneaking isn't that effective when other players can just see you are RIGHT THERE. Both of these combine into probably making Agility into a dump stat, only being used for Small Guns reload and aiming, and perhaps movement speed, meaning AGL-heavy characters would most likely act as damage dealers, strafing around the enemy and emptying full cartridges of shotgun into the enemy.

    Luck: Critical chance and drops. Most likely this will be a sort of squishy stat, used by many minmaxing parties as an official looter that will get mildly better stuff from containers. Of course, if my prediction is correct and it's heavily used by minmaxers, someone will definitely figure out a way to get that very good crit chance to 100, and for like a week the servers will be thrown into chaos as a mutant of nature with like Jeffery the Fortunate's Legendary 10mm machinegun fires armor-piercing shots of DOOM at all who dare oppose him.

     

    All of this is just guessing, and we will have to wait for 76 to be released before we can be certain of just how far my head was into my ass.

    • 33 posts
    June 12, 2018 2:26 PM EDT

    I got a bit carried away with the SPECIAL system. To answer your original question (lul), I think they will go for F4's system, since that's what they've been building towards up til now.

    • 248 posts
    June 12, 2018 2:59 PM EDT

    In the trailer you see as you are leaving Vault 76 a big SPECIAL sign. We will definitely be getting special stats. The bigger question is perks. We've had some spirited debates on the good, bad and ugly of FO4s perks in the past. It's always interesting to me because, the combination of these is really what makes "building" a chracter fun. It's the genius of creative builders that see the combinations that ultimately make a build worth trying out. So will we have the flexibility to to this? I would think so. And my hope is they dive even a little deeper into the stats/perks in order to make our characters very customizable. 

    Frankly, without that, I won't be all that interested in the game. 

    • 1467 posts
    June 13, 2018 12:23 AM EDT

    I got a bit carried away with the SPECIAL system. To answer your original question (lul), I think they will go for F4's system, since that's what they've been building towards up til now.

    Not a problem, actually something really interesting to debate there that I hadn't thought of.

    Agility: Having anybody on the entire server be capable of stopping time on command would make it primo troll territory, so either VATS will go completely or it will be revamped in some complicated new way. Also, while it is very good at dealing with your average raider or feral, sneaking isn't that effective when other players can just see you are RIGHT THERE. Both of these combine into probably making Agility into a dump stat, only being used for Small Guns reload and aiming, and perhaps movement speed, meaning AGL-heavy characters would most likely act as damage dealers, strafing around the enemy and emptying full cartridges of shotgun into the enemy.

    So, to answer the VATS part, it's going to essentially just be a real-time targeting mechanic. There's no slow time effect added to it, but it's still usefull for targeting an enemy that might be moving or what have you. Personally I think this is going to make Snipers more powerful than before, if they can lock on to you from a decent range where you can't see them easily...plus it makes Automatic Players a little less powerful, but not too much, just kinda...normal FPS weaker (which isn't saying much).

    Essentially I think they'll overhaul Sneak to be a little more like D&D (sorta), your Agility and Sneak play against your opponents Perception, but it acts as a kind of...I guess half invisibility? Not sure but it'd be the only way I can think of to manipulate it, making Perception more useful than other Fallout Games (where it's mostly pointless unless your VATS).

    Charisma: Dump stat. There is only one reason why Charisma MIGHT be useful in a multiplayer game: Nerve, giving allies in a certain range a bonus to attack damage or armor, and even that is too little to consider investing.

    Yeah, I'll assume that it's mostly going to be more passive stuff but then...Fallout 4 had Black Widow, Lone Wanderer, Intimidation, Wasteland Whisperer, all things that I could see sort of being useful, especially LW. But the point is that they managed to figure out some non conversation Charisma perks for Fallout 4, so I think they'll come up with some interesting stuff. Oh and I think they might be able to move Chem use into Charisma and more crafting into Intelligence.

    I dunno, that gets into whether they're more Fallout 4 than 3, and...that's tricky for me to say because Bethesda is good at reacting to what people say and changing things up. So yeah, I think they might at least put Skills into the game, automatically expanding the use of all SPECIAL.

    I think I mostly agree, but I think your going to have a fair amount of chances to upgrade your SPECIAL, so that even if you started with 5 in a stat, eventually you can boost it. Maybe a new SPECIAL point every 5 levels (or 4)? Dunno really, will have to wait and see but I think that'd make sense. By like, Level 80 you'd be a master-of-all-trades sorta dude but that takes a long time to build upto you know. I could be wrong, just what I'd personally do to encourage/reward people for sticking with the game for that long.

    • 1467 posts
    June 13, 2018 12:37 AM EDT

    It's always interesting to me because, the combination of these is really what makes "building" a chracter fun. It's the genius of creative builders that see the combinations that ultimately make a build worth trying out. So will we have the flexibility to to this? I would think so. And my hope is they dive even a little deeper into the stats/perks in order to make our characters very customizable. 

    Frankly, without that, I won't be all that interested in the game. 

    Oh it'll have to be there to some extnet, and personally...I dunno. See I like the idea of more unique perks rather than how Fallout 4 was handled where, while some perks started off feeling unique, the fact that you had 3-5 ranks for just about everything sort of ruined it for me. Like if Pain Train was a single, unique perk, that'd be really fucking awesome for me. Personally I'm voting for a system closer to Fallout 4's, but with the unique, and sometimes crazy perks of Fallout 3/New Vegas.

    Plus Traits and Skills need to come back to make me happy. I think it's something that feels...pointlessly left out, but having to juggle skills and SPECIAL just makes the game more complete IMO. I would change the Skills System to something more like Skyrim's rather than putting points into them on level-up...or maybe not. Hmm, that's tough.

    Anyway I want Skills that's the important bit of that :P

    • 773 posts
    June 13, 2018 11:52 AM EDT

    Get a bit more information here

    • 1467 posts
    June 13, 2018 7:28 PM EDT

    So it's pretty interesting that clip Paul, thanks for sharing it.

    Perk Cards are essentially the major thing, and what, I think is the most interesting is that Charisma is pretty focused on upgrading what you can do with Perk Cards (including trading them to other players for...less cost? Or you can give other players higher ranked perk cards). What I'm not sure is whether you could have a player with, say high Charisma and Agility give a Tank an Agility Card that they couldn't naturally get from levelling up, but because a Charisma-Man gave it to you, you've got acess to extra Perk Cards. Could be interesting there, makes a CHARISMA-MAN more valuable. 

    Perk Cards confirmed for Charisma

    Inspirational, which gives a 5% EXP Boost to all team-members. This is just the first level so I assume it can be boosted to around 25%

    Lone Wanderer which now reduces damage and increases AP Regen (10% at first level), making me kind of thing it's more built for...as an example from Fallout 4, running Moving Target, Action Boy and Lone Wanderer, so your all about moving quickly and taking less damage because of it. Could be wrong, just my thoughts for now.

    Vampire which lets Blood Packs quench your thirst, don't radiate you and heal you 50% more.

    Perk Cards confirmed for....I'm guessing Intelligence

    First Aid increases Stimpack Healing by 10%

    Hacked adds +1 to your Hacking Skill. Which, might be kinda confusing, not sure on what it means.

    Makeshift Warrior makes melee weapons 30% less likely to break and easier to repair. Obviously that one is cool to me because I think it's encouraging high Intelligence+Strength builds, or just focuses pretty heavily on Perks that can play really well with other 'Perk Trees' for a lack of a better encompasing term.

    Perk Cards confirmed for Perception

    Concentrated Fire (3 Ranks) - Every V.A.T.S attack on the same body part gains 10%/15%/20% accuracy and damage. 

    • 1467 posts
    June 15, 2018 8:03 AM EDT

    I thought I'd just mention a kind of crazy idea that I just had that I think could make this system work better for builds, and be super interesting. 

    Perception:

    Concentrated Fire (Wild Card, Red) - Every V.A.T.S attack on a different body part on the same target gains 10/15/20% accuracy and damage.

    Concentrated Fire (Wild Card, Blue) -Every V.A.T.S attack on the same body part has a 1/1.5/2% chance to be 40% more accurate.

    Intelligence:

    First Aid (Wild Card, Red) - Increases Stimpack Healing by 15/30/45% if you have two (or more) crippled limbs.

    First Aid (Wild Card, Blue) - Stimpacks heal by 1% per second over 30/45/60 seconds.

    Charisma: 

    Inspirational (Wild Card, Red) - Gives a 20/25/30% exp boost to a single (random) party member on random occasions. (think Idiot Savant but for teams)

    Inspirational (Wild Card, Blue) - Gives 0.5/0.75/1% of each party member's total exp every 15 seconds.

     

     

    I don't have more worked out here. Gotta be honest the general idea for this one is that perks have two different paths (Wild Cards) that are locked in for the player. So if you went with Concentrated Fire (Red Wild Card) your card will read that even if you store it. Essentially it adds a little more restriction to the system, makes your choices matter more than they currently do and kind of...makes each character more unique. My ideas for each specific perk aren't that important, obviously I was going for more... passive versus. random chance but big payout (or big cost) but it's just random ideas. The main point is that it adds more build-quality and difference to the system, so even if I grabbed the same perks each time, I could still have a different character.

    • 295 posts
    June 15, 2018 10:31 AM EDT

    Okay watched the video, thanks Paul for posting it. I'm with the narrator of the video, my biggest fear is that the majority of players will try to find the best perks and we'll get a bunch of people out there that are the same. I think if we play, especially as a group, that we need to make sure we are pretty diverse with our roles and I am always willing to fill a role to help a team run better. It's not like we can't more than one character. We can always opt to run a different character solo where we can then go crazy. I mean, I'll have at least two characters. One for team playing and one for solo exploration, because there is a part of me that likes playing alone, though with the more footage I am seeing the more I am understanding that there is to be no dog...

    Though, lol, if you pick to be the one trader and craftsperson in a whole server full of power armor using gun users, you are going to be one rich trader. :P

    • 248 posts
    June 15, 2018 10:42 AM EDT

    I think the respec/flexibility of these cards make things pretty interesting. Can we talk about that one melee perk that reduces chances of breaking your weapon? Feel like no one is talking about how much repair work might be happening in this world. 

    Anyway, yeah I'm def down for a different system just to keep building interesting. It does seem like it is geared toward teamwork. But as with everything, we'll see!

    • 1467 posts
    June 15, 2018 8:22 PM EDT

    think the respec/flexibility of these cards make things pretty interesting. Can we talk about that one melee perk that reduces chances of breaking your weapon? Feel like no one is talking about how much repair work might be happening in this world. 

    I think my favourite part is that it wasn't shoved into Strength just 'cause it's a melee thing and that it kind of encourages Melee Users to grab Intelligence a little more than they might. I love the idea of Repair, Conditioning Crafting being a huge part of the game to be honest, wouldn't even mind being a kind of 'crafter' who can't fight but just makes new weapons and armour and shit.

    • 627 posts
    June 15, 2018 8:28 PM EDT

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    I think my favourite part is that it wasn't shoved into Strength just 'cause it's a melee thing and that it kind of encourages Melee Users to grab Intelligence a little more than they might.

    It is specifically trying to discourage characters like my current Survival mode playthrough who has max strength and 1 intelligence. We'll still have the option of doing that but it's nice that there is insentive to spread out the SPECIAL.

    • 1467 posts
    June 15, 2018 8:56 PM EDT

    It is specifically trying to discourage characters like my current Survival mode playthrough who has max strength and 1 intelligence. We'll still have the option of doing that but it's nice that there is insentive to spread out the SPECIAL.

    Which is pretty much always good as far as I'm concerned, I generally prefer more balanced characters with Fallout, so the fact that they're rewarding that sort of play is fine by me :D Though to be fair, I don't know it card-trading (or swapping or gifting or whatever) would allow you to work around that. Like if your running Strength 10, Intelligence 1 and I gave you Makeshift Warrior 3/3, would you be able to use it? Haven't seen much on it, but if so it makes cards a little more interesting.