Forums » Elder Scrolls

What can TES VI learn from Kingdom Come: Deliverance?

    • 71 posts
    February 17, 2018 9:49 AM EST

    I debated posting this in general gaming, but figured that this forum gets more traffic. Also, the post DOES concern TES... 

    Anyways, I've been surprised at the lack of conversation surrounding KC:D on this site. I figured it would be up everyone's collective alley. I've only been playing for around 3 hours, but I'm alrerady pretty engrossed in the game. The story is refreshingly small-scale, and the main character is likeable and relatable. The depth is amazing, and very much noted after Skyrim's streamlined experience.

    Of course, this thread isn't meant to just talk of KC:D. While I've been enjoying my time in Bohemia, I can't help but think of what TES might learn from it. With Bethesda showing a greater tendency to cut corners, streamline at the cost of depth, and rely heavily on modders (and attempt to profit from them), I imagine they're squirming right now. KC:D has attracted a devoted group of players who appreciate the deep RPG experience it offers, and in turn it risks to steal away TES' older fanbase (maybe). It was also made on a much smaller budget, has a greater scope in its world, and most importantly, is currently out. If I were Bethesda, I'd be worried about Warhorse turning this into a franchise, and stealing up the market. I wouldn't be as cavalier about TES VI's release date, that's for sure. 

    I think it's great. Healthy competition can only cause both companies to improve. As gamers, we all stand to benefit. Warhorse is a spirited underdog, and they show a great interest in their fanbase (just check out the reddit page; the devs routinely try to implement fan feedback). Bethesda needs to get into gear. For those of you who have played KC:D, or maybe read about it at most, what would you like to see Bethesda lift from it? How do you think the introduction of a new player in the medeival RPG market will affect their decisions moving forward? 


    This post was edited by Delidas at February 17, 2018 9:51 AM EST
    • 1439 posts
    February 17, 2018 10:28 AM EST
    I'd like to o see more variety in combat. As someone whose played KC since release, or a few hours before as I pre-ordered, I like how you can thrust, slash from different angles, parry, and even kick opponents. That and you can see your player model in first person
    • 773 posts
    February 17, 2018 2:08 PM EST

    I'm getting KC:D after theres' been a few patches as I hear its got a few bugs and glitches that need fixing (plus I'm anticipating my wife getting it for my birthday in March lol)

    But I've been following it pretty closely, and the one aspect I'm really, really looking forward to is the way that you can take multiple paths to solve the same quest. Apparently, its just as feasible to talk your way through quests as it is to solve them brute force. That's something you rarely get in any other game, inclusing Skyrim.

    • 71 posts
    February 17, 2018 2:36 PM EST

    I can attest to the complexity of combat, and the diversity in questing options. I've been abusing a combat trainer for the past little while, and won my first non-tutorial duel a couple of hours ago. It actually felt like an accomplishment; beating one person. Hacking and slashing is a surefire way to die quick, so it actually takes time and practice to get the rythym down. I usually go for the non-violent option simply because it's less risky. I've leveled speech more than anything, and have been creative so far in talking to the right people to leverage my best interests. It's amazing to be so taken with the other mechanics that you actually don't mind having not drawn a sword in the past hour-or-whatever.

    In regard to bugs/polish, there are some, but I haven't encountered anything game-breaking. I've had a few cutscenes replay themselves, my horse get stuck (which resulted in my being pulled to the ground and clubbed to death by an angry Cuman), and stuff like that. Nothing that has made me quit in frustration. It plays surprisingly well on my launch-era PS4 - way better than I'd have expected. I'm really impressed at the lack of loading screens when entering towns/buildings, and the general scope of them. If TES VI could make cities actually feel like cities like KC:D does, I'd be a happy gamer.  


    This post was edited by Delidas at February 17, 2018 2:37 PM EST
    • 1467 posts
    February 17, 2018 7:25 PM EST

    I'd like to o see more variety in combat. As someone whose played KC since release, or a few hours before as I pre-ordered, I like how you can thrust, slash from different angles, parry, and even kick opponents. That and you can see your player model in first person

    Honestly, I'd really hate the idea of making gameplay more complex by adding in a more difficult combat system with different types of attacks. I mean, it's a fine system for some games, specifically ones that aim to be a bit more realistic (like Mount and Blade, Kingdom Come) but I just don't think it's a style that fits TES, I think it's the sort of thing that is a really easy way to put people off a game, something that TES is never going to do. I think that you could argue for different difficulty settings, but making combat itself more complex is just something that I think would ruin TES: VI

    • 1439 posts
    February 17, 2018 7:29 PM EST
    Well, at least adding things like kicking or the weight of the weapon factoring into damage would be neat
    • 197 posts
    February 17, 2018 7:58 PM EST

    Quick question: I’ve heard that saving the game is difficult, and that even when you want to exit, you can’t just exit, but you have to wait for an auto save or you lose all your progress. Is this true? 

    • 558 posts
    February 18, 2018 12:57 AM EST
    I personally don't mind the basic combat in TES. ES: Arena actually had a combat system where you could swipe up, down, left and right, as well as thrust, but I don't necessarily wish that it would get replicated for TES6.

    I haven't played KC:D myself, but ES6 would benefit from having multiple ways to complete quests.

    I don't think that Bethesda will streamline ES6 any further than Skyrim since they won't be able to do Shouts again. They will probably add some other mechanic(s) to fill that gap.

    Actually, I wouldn't mind if they made Shouts a skill in ES6.
    • 585 posts
    February 18, 2018 8:04 AM EST

    Paul said:

    But I've been following it pretty closely, and the one aspect I'm really, really looking forward to is the way that you can take multiple paths to solve the same quest. Apparently, its just as feasible to talk your way through quests as it is to solve them brute force. That's something you rarely get in any other game, inclusing Skyrim.

    This. TES's strength will never be it's combat, there will always be more innovative and exciting new systems being created. But one thing that the series should thrive on is it's story, and different routes and complex moral decisions are exactly what it needs more of. You should be able to do a pacifist run like you can in Fallout, with Speech and careful planning, not just being sneaky.

    Dragonborn1921 said:

    Honestly, I'd really hate the idea of making gameplay more complex by adding in a more difficult combat system with different types of attacks. I mean, it's a fine system for some games, specifically ones that aim to be a bit more realistic (like Mount and Blade, Kingdom Come) but I just don't think it's a style that fits TES, I think it's the sort of thing that is a really easy way to put people off a game, something that TES is never going to do. I think that you could argue for different difficulty settings, but making combat itself more complex is just something that I think would ruin TES: VI

    Agreed, although I think adding one or two minor mechanics wouldn't be the end of the world. Like bashing in FO4 for example - it's not game changing, but it's a nice to have and it can be incorporated majorly into a character if you try hard enough. Just adding a new dimension to building really.

    • 1439 posts
    February 18, 2018 8:09 AM EST
    You need a type iof alchohol called Saviour Schnapps or a rented/owned bed to save
    • 87 posts
    February 18, 2018 9:21 AM EST
    I’ve played roughly 18 hours of KCD and I have to say it’s by far one of the best games I’ve played. However, I’ve noticed that a lot of people are comparing it to the elder scrolls games and I have to say that they are so different that you can’t really compare. I think it also takes away from how unique this game is. It’s really a completely different game than Skyrim. The only similarities as far as I can tell is that it’s open world(most games are these days) and an RPG(again, this is the trend). So to be honest just because you can use a sword doesn’t mean it’s like the Elder Scrolls. This being said, I think the one big thing that the Elder Scrolls could take away from KCD is that in KCD the player actually impacts the world, and it feels like the world is actually alive.
    • 197 posts
    February 18, 2018 2:23 PM EST
    Chris said:
    You need a type iof alchohol called Saviour Schnapps or a rented/owned bed to save


    Right, I read that. But what I’m concerned about is this situation: I’m playing a low-level character and don’t have enough money to do those things. My daughter’s school calls and she’s throwing up and I have to go get her. I can’t just save the game and exit. True? I was wavering about getting the game, but if that’s the case, there’s no point.
    • 71 posts
    February 18, 2018 5:45 PM EST

    I'm surprised at the amount of people who don't want to see combat change at all. I don't think a complete overhaul is necessary - we don't need to be micro-managing our swing direction and velocity, etc - but I'd like to see different fighting styles within each weapon type/skill (heavy handed saber user vs reflexive duelist, etc). The ability to slash, thrust, and parry would be great. 

    In response to Ilanisilver, you're correct, unfortunately. That being said, the devs have been pretty good with implementing fan feedback, so something may yet be done. In any case, I haven't had any trouble just fast travelling to a bed and sleeping to save whenever I want to quit abruptly. It can still be a bit convoluted, though. That and floaty horse riding are my only real gripes. 


    This post was edited by Delidas at February 18, 2018 5:46 PM EST
    • 558 posts
    February 19, 2018 7:19 PM EST

    I'm surprised at the amount of people who don't want to see combat change at all.

    To me, ES was less about the action and more about the RPG, but it is clear that Bethesda wants to make it more action heavy. If they intend to continue going this route, then I certainly wouldn't be opposed to some new mechanics in the combat. But I also wouldn't mind if they scaled the action back and made it more like the older games.


    This post was edited by Gollum at February 19, 2018 7:20 PM EST
    • 278 posts
    February 19, 2018 8:49 PM EST

    I'm with gollum on this. TES never had really strong combat. Even though some RPG elements are being forgotten, its still got them and combat will never be that strong. I use Smilodon to make my combat more fun, but that doesn't mean I want an officially better combat system. i do howveer think that a pacifist option would be great, like Fallout 4 if I'm not mistaken.

    • 1439 posts
    February 25, 2018 4:46 PM EST
    I'd like to see layering of armor, more sophisticated than Morrowind