Forums » Elder Scrolls

What does this one think of the Civil War?

    • 284 posts
    February 15, 2018 5:39 PM EST

    Whoever wins or losses, the Dominion will come out on top.

    • 274 posts
    February 15, 2018 5:46 PM EST

    I'm of the firm belief that if the Stormcloaks win they're all doomed. Their plan is to take out the Aldmeri dominion but they had trouble defeating a mere legion of Imperial soldiers that was already heavily weakened by the Great War. The Empire has much more troops around the provinces and if they were allowed they could pull in a few more troops and crush the rebellion to smithereens with ease, and what's more this was an Empire very previously weakened by the Aldmeri Dominion to the point of surrendering.

    The Stormcloaks got no chance in hell, while the Imperials have some chance because of their vastly stronger military. In truth though, I think the only military in Tamriel during the 4th Era capable of defeating the Aldmeri Dominion is the An'Xileel.


    This post was edited by Ebonslayer at February 15, 2018 5:46 PM EST
    • 278 posts
    February 15, 2018 5:55 PM EST

    If you ask me - and I asked myself - I believe the Imperials are the right choice for everything.

    They're tactically stronger, both in arms and weaponry. They have an overall more number of men and can draw reinforcements from Cyrodiil, just across the border. The quality of their armor is better - steel versus a blue sash - and they have formal training. They're full-time soldiers, while most Stormcloaks are either militia - farmers or workers - or guards. They control more strategic points, such as Falkreath - border to Cyrodiil - Whiterun - Trade Capital - Markath - Tactically defensible and silver and steel mine - Solitude - capital and largest port in Skyrim. As Ulfric himself says, 'If Royal Blood was spilt, we'd have the Empire down on our backs, and we can't afford that!*This is similar to what he says, I can't remember the exact words* The Skyrim Empire is most likely one of the smaller branches, the Cyrodiil Legion would be able to come in and squash the rebellion if they needed to. 

     

    In terms of the Thalmor, people need to start realising the Empire is keeping them out of Skyrim. If there was no Empire, the Aldmeri Dominion could openly walk in and slaughter the Stormcloaks - because they could, easily - but while the Empire is in Cyrodiil, the Dominion cannot legally march an army across Cyrodiil and into Skyrim without breaking the treaty, and starting a second Great War. Something else not really anyone remembers is that Ulfric and the Markath Incident are what brought the Thalmor's attention to Skyrim - previously, they'd been happy to let the Empire enforce their laws - which they weren't doing, mind you, because they hate the Thalmor far more than the Stormcloaks - but Ulfric had to declare to everyone wow look I has loud voice fus ro dah! If Ulfric had't been repelling the Empire needlessly, the Empire, Nords, Bretons, and Redguards could all have allied and most likely out-fought the Dominion, but Ulfric didn't give two shits. 

     

    Now I have to step onto something quickly. Ulfric isn't a racist for keeping the Dunmer in the slums and the Argonians outside the city and not letting Khajiit in. The Dunmer came as refugees during a time of war and the Grey Quarter was all Ulfric could afford to give them - no one else is helping the Dunmer, after all - the Argonians and Dunmer need to be kept apart or blood will be spilt, and most likely Dark Elf blood. Not to mention, Argonians like the river. And this one's kind are renowned as thieves. It is not Ulfric's fault for being scared of letting them in. They need all they have. 

     

    When the Empire gave up, they gave up to save their men and the other peoples. They were evenly matched; the Dominion simply knew how to play their cards better. While the Empire cannot single-handedly beat the Dominon - thanks to the rebels weakening them - and they had to allow the Dominion certain freedoms. 

     

    In terms of Ebonslayer, I agree that the An Xileel would easily win, but the Hist only fight for themselves and the Argonians, and the Dominion long ago chose to let the Argonians do their own thing. 

     

    The Dominion couldn't fight in Hammerfell because of the heat. No water, no wood, metal armor is a death trap. Skyrim is easier, with water everywhere, wood, insulated armor, and defensible locatons. 

     

    The Stormcloaks have been weakening the Empire when they could have allied with them and secretly plotted to take out the Dominion, which they're probably working on. 

     

    The Empire keeps the Dominion out of Skyrim legally. Because they are tecnically in control, it would be breaking the treaty to have an army move into Skyrim - and the Dominion can't risk another Great War yet. If the Dominion invaded, the Civil War would be over far easier. They want the Empire weakened, but they also can't risk a rebel victory - although they would easily win it would be bad for their image. Trust me, the Empire despises the Thalmor. 

     

     

    • 284 posts
    February 15, 2018 6:05 PM EST

    The Empire is the only solution rationaly. Ulfric is to naive to see that. The Dominion may hold the cards, but the Empire holds the better position geographicaly. Holding the north of Tamriel gives them the oportunity to build and train their armies while the legions hold the south border. They would be protected from Aldmeri fleets with help from the Hammerfell fleet. They hold the biggest port and one of the best navies in the Abecean Sea. The Dominion can't circle east either beccause of the Argonians and the Dark Elves as the former hate them.All in all, Great War 2.0? I'm guessing pyrrhic victory for the Empire.

    • 1467 posts
    February 15, 2018 6:06 PM EST

    They're tactically stronger, both in arms and weaponry. They have an overall more number of men and can draw reinforcements from Cyrodiil, just across the border. The quality of their armor is better - steel versus a blue sash - and they have formal training. They're full-time soldiers, while most Stormcloaks are either militia - farmers or workers - or guards. They control more strategic points, such as Falkreath - border to Cyrodiil - Whiterun - Trade Capital - Markath - Tactically defensible and silver and steel mine - Solitude - capital and largest port in Skyrim. As Ulfric himself says, 'If Royal Blood was spilt, we'd have the Empire down on our backs, and we can't afford that!*This is similar to what he says, I can't remember the exact words* The Skyrim Empire is most likely one of the smaller branches, the Cyrodiil Legion would be able to come in and squash the rebellion if they needed to. 

    Rather than share my opinion, I'm just going to play super devil's advocate and aim for arguing against everything. So the first thing, is that the Imperials really can't draw any reinforcements from Cyrodiil, it's specifically said by Tullius that the Empire can barely afford to send what they've already sent, because remember they've just come out of both The Great War, and the War in Hammerfell, the latter of which was more or less avoided by Skyrim.  The empire is fairly weak at the moment, and need to reliably defend their entire southern border (or close to it) at all times because the Dominion absolutely would attack if the opportunity presented itself. They also theoretically need to defend most of their western border as well, meaning they've dedicated a lot of troops to places other than Skyrim.

    So yeah, they do have limited resources, which is why Markarth is relatively crucial to the Empire...they need the Silver of the mines there. 

    Actually, the Stormcloaks to have a lot of ex-Imperials in their ranks, you could even say it's a decent number of them based on what we've seen in-game but it's hard to say exactly. They've also had years of training (potentially) to form up into a decent military, and have enough people leading them with knowledge on Imperial tactics that they can (relatively) easily form counters to the typical things the Empire will do. Technically speaking, the Stormcloaks have the benefit of considering themselves at war for longer than the Imperials. They've had time to build up resources, train and spread their message before the Empire was heavily involved like they are when we see the Civil War.

     

    • 278 posts
    February 15, 2018 6:12 PM EST

    If Valenwood rebelled (which it must be on the verge of doing with all of the racial purges, that locks the Dominion to only Elsweyr and Alinor and of those two only Alinor is properly defensible. However the Thalmor aren't really naval combatants, and the Khajiit aren't what they used to be in terms of standing armies; they're mainly thieves and assassins in service of the Dominion. Elsweyr I imagine has quite a bit of rebellion and imagine what would happen if some Imperial astrologist revealed to the Khajiit what an eclipse is, The Thalmor would be stuffed. They'd be locked into a war against Tamriel, against the united races.

     

    Something I don't understand is why people don't realise why the Empire surrendered. They surrendered to save their people from being slaughtered by the hundreds. Thalmor are stepping in and slaughtering people, so the Empire made the right choice.


    This post was edited by Wulfhedinn at February 15, 2018 6:20 PM EST
  • Mr.
    • 763 posts
    February 15, 2018 8:32 PM EST

    If I wasn't so lazy, I'd jump into this discussion like in the good old days - but back then, I was an Imperial. Maybe I will already have jumped on it by the time I end this answer, it depends on how hooked up I get. Let's see.

    The Dominion couldn't fight in Hammerfell because of the heat. No water, no wood, metal armor is a death trap. Skyrim is easier, with water everywhere, wood, insulated armor, and defensible locatons.

     One of the arguments I remember hearing from some old Stormcloak supporters who are not amongst us anymore and that made sense was that Skyrim's climate is just as harsh as Hammerfell, if not harsher. The nights are cold as hell and it gets worse on its northern provinces , even during the days. And there is a reason why military campaigns are unsuccessful during the winter and why it is wiser to postpone wars until spring. Not to mention that Skyrim's geography isn't exactly army-friendly.

    While the Empire cannot single-handedly beat the Dominon - thanks to the rebels weakening them - and they had to allow the Dominion certain freedoms. 

      This bit isn't clear to me. By the time they signed the concordat, there was no rebellion in Skyrim and the Aldmeri Dominion couldn't possibly hold the Imperial City anymore, not after the Imperial counter-attack. 

     By the way, Vix's "The Great War" lore article can be useful to this discussion. https://tamrielvault.com/groups/topic/view/group_id/1/topic_id/4465

    Edited correction: there was a rebellion in Skyrim, but it was the Forsworn, not the Stormcloaks, and it only affected the Reach. When Ulfric got back he showed them who's boss.


    This post was edited by Mr. at February 15, 2018 8:37 PM EST
    • 1439 posts
    February 17, 2018 9:14 AM EST
    There is a theory that Ulfric is secretly working for the Empire,
    • 490 posts
    February 17, 2018 9:44 AM EST

    Chris said: There is a theory that Ulfric is secretly working for the Empire,

    The dossier, sure, but it is more likely they simply consider him an asset due to destabilizing the region with the civil war. A broken province is easier to subdue than a unified one so the Thalmor love Ulfric and his actions.

    • 1439 posts
    February 17, 2018 9:47 AM EST
    No, Imperial Knowledge posted a theory that he's an agent for the Empire, not the Dominion
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D_SY_EVJNA2w&ved=0ahUKEwicgfvQmK3ZAhUJKWMKHW_YC5YQwqsBCCYwAA&usg=AOvVaw2u-JME-KCe2bKwkhyMyDST
    • 13 posts
    February 17, 2018 10:16 AM EST

    I love talking about the civil war! As far as the best choice to make it's don't pick either side. Think about it, how many stormcloaks and imperials you kill and help to be killed during the missions?? The Dragonborn was the deciding factor because he/she is a demigod. You take the Dragonborn out of the mix and you automaticly save a ton of lives. The peace treaty keeps them from going all out on each other as well. Sure they'll be a few soldiers die every now and then, but not a full scale war. 

    Eventually when the Empire is ready to strike I bet they can work something out with the Stormcloaks to fight a common foe.  I think Skyrim was the proof that the Empire isn't going to be in the next game. It's the first game that lets you straight up win a war against them and kill the Emperor. Stormcloaks might survive. Especially since he used to be a Thalmor Pawn. 

     

    • 11 posts
    February 19, 2018 9:50 PM EST

    A professional army, with trouble at home, vs a less well equipped populist force fighting on a home ground that's discomfort and death to other races, fighting for their beliefs?

    Where have I seen that before.

    My vote on the Stormcloaks winning. And the Empire might fall a little sooner to its new masters, or simply fall apart.

    • 29 posts
    April 10, 2018 6:24 PM EDT
    Both sides stand to lose no matter what.