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Dragonborn's Classes Project

    • 1467 posts
    January 23, 2017 2:50 AM EST


    Around halfway through December...I think, anyway back last year I started a quick little project that I was taking to calling DB's Inferior Classes of the Elder Scrolls (To pay homage to Albino's Classes of the Elder Scrolls) a series of interesting quick mini builds that weren't really builds so much as class bases. A quick way to start off your character with a few simple restrictions and a few defining characteristics that a builder could then grow into whatever they wanted. It was a fun idea, but it slowly started morphing into something really different. After I'd started working on that it started to slowly twist into something that, was a bit larger, a full blown class system rather than just a kind of mini-build sort of thing. Now, well I've completely left the world of TES behind to make it my own thing

    I've written this first bit out a number of times, but I'd like you to ahead and read before I end up making this too long. This is a really big Work in Progress and I'll be updating it daily so you'll probably read some stuff that makes no sense, and there will be the occasional contradiction. I've never actually worked on something this large and complex so keeping it all in my head as I type it doesn't really work out. 

    What am I reading?

    Yes, excellent question hypothetical reader. This started out as a simple exercise in creating my own 'classes' of various sorts but I've slowly been trying to turn it into the beginnings of a Turn-Based Tabletop RPG (TBTRPG?) with inspirations from The Elder Scrolls, Dungeons and Dragons, Fire Emblem and other similar games that make the list too long if I name every single one of them. I haven't even come close to finishing even one part of it (I've nearly finished Stage One in Class Creation). 



    Useful Links

    Here are some links that are probably a good idea to read before delving into the Classes

    The Definition Thread has information on all of the basics, things like Attributes, Damage Types and...well for now it's just about all the information I have on anything that isn't a Walk or...whatever I end up calling the categories that the Classes fall under. 

    The Class Attributes Sheet simply has all of the Attributes for Classes done up in a nice spreadsheet which can help you compare the stats. (WARNING - Spread Sheet isn't nice, in fact it's very simplistic in design.


    Chaos Classes


    The Chaos WitchChaos Witches are well known for using twisted spells to inflict damage from afar with deadly, single target spells. Their spells are based almost entirely on Chaos Damage, doing very little Pure Damage and absolutely no Elemental damage, which does allow their spells to completely ignore physical armours that their opponents use against them. This allows Witches to do massive amounts of damage to single warrior targets.

    One of the largest weaknesses of The Chaos Witch is that they struggle to deal with multiple targets at once. Their spells are almost exclusively designed for single targets and there are only a small number that have any area of effect spells. On top of this, Chaos Damage naturally does very little to those with magical defenses of any kind. 

    The AssassinAssassins are powerful singular fighters that fight by themselves from the shadows, using anything that they can get their hands on to defeat their targets. This doesn't just include weapons, many Assassins are known to be incredibly capable at using bombs, mines and a number of explosives and distractions all designed to whittle an enemy down until a single blow is capable of finishing the fight. 

    In a similar manner to a Chaos Witch, Assassins struggle at fighting multiple targets but they are well suited to dealing with most single targets beause of their unique combination of Chaos and Pure damage, allowing them to navigate around magical and physical protections easier than other Chaos Walks can.

    The Berserker - The Berserker is a melee oriented Chaos Walk that is surprisingly incapable of inflicting any Chaos Damage to their enemies, which seems to go against the idea of a Chaos Walk, but the Berserker makes up for this with their sheer strength. These powerful warriors are capable of dealing immense physical damage to foes in a small area, their attacks are designed to hit multiple enemies that try and engage them in close combat. That allows them to fight more opponents at once than any other Walk, at least in close combat. If they do have a weakness, it would be their complete lack of ranged abilities, Berserker's simply cannot engage foes from any moderate or long distance. 

    Archery Classes


    The Tank Archer (Name Change Needed) - The Tank Archer is famous for its defensive approach to offense. Quite often they will find, maybe a small outcrop in a mountainous region and just stand there, they won’t set traps or create barriers or anything, simply stand there. However, as soon as an enemy is spotted they will unleash one of the most devastating weapons known to reality; The Hand-Ballista, a modified, steam powered Siege Weapon that is usually used to bring down walls. Of course the Hand Ballista is made for easier use, it’s still bulkier than any bow but it loses a fair amount of power in exchange for being rather quick to use.

    One of the major weaknesses of the Tank Archer is Magic, any magic-user that can cast Area of Effect spells can simply rupture the ground around the Tank Archer, completely reducing their environmental defense. 

    The IcarusFlight is an incredibly powerful if often underused tool in battle that requires constant practise, training and discipline to even begin to use efficiently. An Icarus, is an archer that has trained for long enough to be incredibly deadly when attacking from the skies, using traps and other disturbances to delay enemies as much as possible.

    However, one of the largest weaknesses of flight is that it severely reduces their ability to fire an arrow with any real strength, and because of this they deal less damage with each attack and have difficulties against heavily armoured foes.

    Luck's Rain Imagine arrows falling from the sky like rain during a thunderstorm, each and every rain drop isn’t going to hit you, but enough of them will that you’ll start feeling heavy. And if you're stuck in the rain for long enough, well you might just drop dead. Those that follow the Walk of Luck’s Rain are faster at firing an arrow than anyone else in the world, the way that arrows fly from their bows almost feels like it should be magical rather than simply human.

    However, they do sacrifice strength and individual accuracy in order to keep up such a heavy barrage of arrows. By firing so fast they do almost no damage with a single arrow and the only way they’ll defeat an enemy is by filling them with so many arrows that they can barely move let alone fight back.

    Note - The name for Luck's Rain will slightly change whenever I start working on deities. Then they'll be a kind of religious Archer that worships the God of Luck (and there name will change to be [God's Name]'s Rain

    Creation and Destruction Classes


    The HealerThe Healer is a natural mage that is capable of healing the injuries of their allies in an incredibly rapid and easy manner. Healing and protective magics come almost without struggle to them, however these same spells are capalbe of being twisted simply be expanding more power into deadly magics that few can withstand. The one weakness of the Healer is that those who use these spells can only heal (or inflict damage) that would be naturally repairable without magic. For instance they couldn't heal a severed head or regrow a lost arm, but can heal cuts, bruises and even damaged limbs in a matter of seconds. 

    The RunecrafterThe Runecrafters are some of the most powerful magical beings. Some can become so powerful that they're barely considered humans, and legends tell of the Runelord, a powerful mage that imbued himself so heavily with Runes that he literally became a God. The art of Runeccrafting is all about twisting spells into permanent 'Runes' that are then placed on weapons, armour, clothing or in the most powerful cases, the Runecrafter themselves. 

    Defensive Runes are truly permanent and are active as long as the Runecaster is awake and alive. Offensive Runes require Trigger Runes to be built into them, making them much harder to actually use, but also more diverse than a normal spell. it is important to note that a Rune cannot be place unwillingly onto a person, or on a Magical Item, the natural magical fields that living things or naturally magical items gives off makes Runes explode quite violently. 

    The Havoc - The Havoc is a power-based fighter that uses Earth Magic to enhance a single weapon, tying the element so firmly with this weapon that it allows them to manipulate the earth itself in a brute-force manner. Because of this ability to enhance their weapon, a Havoc is trained to only use a single weapon, and with that weapon they deal out blows that seem to explode forwards, shattering the earth and dealing massive amounts of damage to any enemy that comes close to the Havoc.
    Even with all this power, The Havoc is restricted to the use of only a single weapon that's been enhanced by their Earth Magic, and any other weapon disables the use of their abilites. Along with this, they don't have any true ranged attacks, and have to resort to getting in close to deal any damage.

    Defensive Classes


    The Barrier Weaver -The Barrier Weaver is both a powerful offensive and defensive Walk, capable of setting up complex barriers with a myriad of effects. Some of the most common are magical barriers that block damage of all sorts, these are rather easy to set up around the user, and can be modified to reflect spells, outright block them or absorb them into the caster. For a more offensive skill set, Barrier Weavers are also capable of creating trap fields (which are simple barriers that are designed to explode outwards), offensive walls (near invisible barriers that damage any enemy that passes through them) or Barrier Circles, which can surround either an enemy and implode doing massive damage to anyone inside, or surround an ally or the Weaver itself and act as a moving offensive wall.

    The largest weakness that a Barrier Weaver faces is the fact that some of their most powerful barriers are not instant. Those that are designed to block projectiles or spells rather than simply shielding from the damage they can do are generally too slow to be of any real use by anyone but the most powerful Barrier Weavers

    The GuardianThe Guardian is a simple Walk, or at least it's generally perceived as one. A Guardian is a defensive melee warrior who uses a shield and heavy armour to protect themselves from enemy blows. Quite often you'll find that a Guardian can focus either on an incredibly potent protection from one major type of damage, and while they can protect themselves from other types of damage it isn't as strong as their main focus.  

    Other than their primary focus on only a single damage type, Guardians do have a massive weakness in regards to their damage output. Most of their damage dealing attacks tend to be focused more on stalling their enemies rather than just obliterating them.

    The NecromancerNecromancers are the most offensively powerful Walk in the Patience category, capable of drawing spirits into the world and manipulating them in such a way that their offensive properties are almost limitless. Some Necromantic Spells are capable of causing spirits to explode violently, dealing damage to any enemy near by, others simply bind those souls to nearby corpses, creating undead warriors capable of fighting for the Necromancer.

    It's notable that Necromancer's are only capable of casting spells if the spirits in the area are willing to be used, an unwilling spirit cannot be used at all for Necromantic Spells and will usually backfire on the caster. The only other notable weakness is that they don't have other spells, and Spiritual Damage’s weakness to magical shields of any kind makes them rather weak against some enemies

    Nature Classes


    The MagiMagi are the most general type of magic user there is. They don't have a strong focus on either offensive or defensive magic and have no single element that they excel at using. Instead Magi tend to spread their focus to include all types of magic, giving them variety rather than sheer power. What Magi are capable of doing that truly sets them apart from any other magic user is their ability to chain spells and combine their effects into more deadly magical attacks. 

    Their one major weakness is that combination spells are the most taxing type of spell to use, by using these powerful combinations of magics they can be drained of magic in minutes rather than hours like a normal spell-caster.

    The ElementalistIf Magi are generalists than an Elementalist is the best example of a focused magic user. Elementalists focus on a single type of elemental damage and learn everything they can about dealing as much damage with that type of magic as possible. This allows them to completely focus their learning into a single, powerful area. 

    This does however put them at a significant disadvantage against any creature that's immune to that type of damage, their singular specialization causes them to learn less different types of spell. 

    The Dancer - Dancers are graceful, nimble warriors that combine exquisite bladework with the ability to manipulate nature. They use a bond between wielding their sword and casting spells that allow them to do both at the same time, striking forth or blocking blows while at the same time coaxing vines to ensnare their opponents. This is their greatest strength, by being able to combine magic and swordsmanship together they create a single, deadly art that allows them to damage, trap and kill enemies rather easily.

    Their greatest weakness is a near complete lack of any firm defense, any sort of defensive protection they do get is through magic or parrying. Dancers also suffer from doing smaller amounts of damage than other warriors, relying mostly on their spells to take enemies down.


    Abberations are the most ridiculous and clearly overpowered classes available. They aren't natural at all, they defy all known rules of magic and life and have powers that very few can understand let alone access. Some of the most common types of Abberations (which luckily aren't common at all) are Holy or Unholy beings, that have become almost demigods due to their connection to a specific deity. There are other types of Abberations, but those are so rare and undocumented that even discussing them would be a waste of time. There is only one rule that I recommend following if you ever meet an Abberation that is evil in anyway, or otherwise wants to harm you. far away and hope your faster than they are. 


    The Cleric - Clerics are quite difficult to understand. Their powers come from the deities themselves, and those powers are indeed formidible. Healing Clerics are capable of not just healing injuries, but actually reversing time around the injury and removing it from existence. That sort of power allows them to be functionally immortal as long as they have a brain and magic, and allows them to restore the dead to life with just a thought. A Harming Cleric, is much, much more deadly. They're geared towards pain, and generally require a single spell to do as much damage as a Healing Cleric can restore. Nbbody is quite sure how their spells work, only that they do and that they can cause death if held for too long.

    The Summoner - Summoner is a bit of a misnomer for what a Summoner really does. What is more accurate to say is that Summoners can create life or an object from absolutely nothing. This allows them to create monstrous beasts made purely out of magical energy, weapons that can deal any type of damage, and at times completely pass through physical defenses. On top of this is their ability to create shields out of nothing, these shields are near invulnerable, and even if one were to break through it, well the Summoner could just create another one. This is their most frightening power, no matter what you do to try and stall them or attack back, they can simply create something else to beat you. 


    Notes and Future Plans (as of 19/2/2017)

    1 - At the moment I've worked out four of the six Base Races, and finished all 15 of the Base Classes, well at least the first stage for each of them. I'm working on the final two races, and then I'm planning on expanding with some Lore on each of them down the line, but for now the Races are almost completely finished, or at least they all have a personality at the moment which is what I was aiming for.

    2 - I've decided that I want to see about writing a Short Story (or two) based on a character that's from one of each race. Basically this is the start of the expanded world of _____ (Haven't figured out a name for it yet, which is really bugging me) and will form the basis for what I do from here on out. Of course I'm still not what you'd call comfortable with writing, but I really am enjoying the idea of writing in this world. This is probably first on my list once I've completed the last two races and will take a fair amount of time (I was aiming at a week/per chapter).

    3 - I want to let everyone know that I'll be moving off of the Vault, or at least mostly moving off the Vault very soon (for this project only, don't worry, the Deeb will still be around). The main issue is that this is looking like it will be much bigger than this thread and the Google Docs, and I'd like to start establishing somewhere that really is 'my own' so to say. At the moment I was mainly looking at the idea of starting a Subreddit as a good base of operations (so to say) but I will look at website creation as well.

    This post was edited by SpookyBorn2021 at February 19, 2017 1:43 AM EST
    • 1467 posts
    January 23, 2017 2:53 AM EST

    Damn, that's taken awhile...I want to mention that there are likely dozens of errors, repeated sentences or contradictions in this piece. I've been writing it over the course of three days now and because of my shitty sleeping habbits that meant I was writing at 2:00 AM sometimes which doesn't really make for the best writing. My apologies for them (and if you want to, then feel free to point out any mistakes) and I'll try and fix them up as I go along.

    I'm hoping that the first Walk will be released by about this time tommorow (I'm about half way through the basic information for The Hunter...Just need to figure out what I'm going to do with the Skills). 

    • 122 posts
    January 24, 2017 7:54 PM EST

    This...Kind of looks like you're beginning to write your own tabletop system, DB. 

    • 1467 posts
    January 24, 2017 8:17 PM EST

    This...Kind of looks like you're beginning to write your own tabletop system, DB. 

    Hmm, I wouldn't say that quite yet, it is only a small bit of one if it was.

    I mean, I've thought about giving it a shot and I've actually been reading up on several options with one of them being a tabletop system (I won't say anything else because I'm so far away from any of it that it doesn't even warrant the comment from me yet). The idea of creating a tabletop game interests me heavily, and I wouldn't be against the idea of creating one. Then again, I'm hardly an expert on them, I've barely played a tabletop game of any kind so it'd be pretty much built from square one.

    Anyway, you got me off on a bit of a rant there Mercurias, never a bad thing :D For now, just consider it a bit of fun. 

    • 558 posts
    January 24, 2017 11:24 PM EST
    As far as races, create your own. It is pretty fun.
    • 585 posts
    January 25, 2017 5:45 AM EST
    I really like this, Deebs. I've thought about creating this kind of thing before (until I realise I'm way to lazy and forget about it), so it definitely appeals to me.

    Your system seems pretty robust, with a distinct tabletop feel like Merc said. Each path feels original and balanced, apart from the Abberation of course, but the OPness they have also feels justified in such a way that I don't mind it.

    As far as the individual classes go, the Runecrafter appeals to me the most (I've had a character very similar to it in the works for a while, which is probably why). I'd recommend looking at the Rune Lord from the Warhammer tabletop game, it's similar but different enough to draw inspiration from.

    Races are tricky. Trying to stray too far from the norm brings about strange results, but just remaking Tolkien's races is a trope of almost every fantasy thing out there. I'd recommend checking out r/worldbuilding on Reddit, it's got loads of tips for this kind of thing, and loads of people post their own stuff so inspiration should be plentiful.
    • 1467 posts
    January 25, 2017 8:26 PM EST

    Ah, my apoligies guys, I'd left a reply yesterday but it seems like it didn't go through. It was a bit wordy anyway so I'll cut it down to the key things I mentioned.

    The Abberations are an interesting topic, they seem like they're undefeatable kind of people but really all it takes is the right Walk. For example, the Cleric's nature makes it rather impossible to take down without a lot of power all at once, that makes classes that deal small, but rapid damage just ineffective against them. The same can be said for things like the Barrier Weaver or Guardian, they just don't have the firepower to take them down. However, it would almost be easy for a Berserker to do it, the Cleric isn't like other Clerics (the D&D Cleric for example) and is pretty much just good at healing with a little weapons training to bolster that. A Berserker can do so much damage in a single hit that the Cleric just can't survive it, same with an Elementalist or high levelled Necromancer.

    They've got very exploitable weaknesses, but that would only be at higher levels. Abberations are insanely powerful from day one compared to other Walks but they are defeatable by some classes later on.


    Races was another major thing. Honestly they aren't going to be done up anytime soon, well at least not for a few weeks based on how long the Chaos Witch has taken (and it still has only really been given the Attributes...I might just start with that) but possibly longer. I don't really want to stick with anything close to the Tolkein Races (or Tolkein inspired) that so many fantasy games use. It bores me out when I see Elves that kind of feel like they were ripped straight out of a Fantasy Races wiki page or something. So yeah, definitely will be going for a fully original race, or at least trying to take inspiration from something else...

    I think those were the only two things, but hey I can always drop in and mention something else can't I.


    The other thing I wanted to do is quickly go over a weekly plan and maybe drop in my change log.

    At the moment I'm planning on finishing up the attributes for each class rather than fully developing them. At the moment that would be enough for anyone to get a fair idea of what each class focuses on. Some classes may end up further developed because they've got simpler Base Abilities, but for the moment my focus is simply on planning their most basic qualities out

    I've decided that I want to change how Armour works... Magic Shielding will remain the same way as it is at the moment but I'm just going to scrap Physical Resistance as an attribute and just have it work in with Armour. It'll be easier than having it as a natural attribute and also just a better system for a game.

    • 1467 posts
    January 25, 2017 11:49 PM EST

    Change Log:

    Endurance -

    At the moment I’m a bit torn on what to do with Endurance. I’ve stripped Physical Resistance from having any relationship with Endurance and I’ve decided to simply go with a set amount per level for each class. That kind of means that Endurance doesn’t currently do anything so I’ve considered dropping the Attribute completely.

    Physical Resistance - 

    I've made sure that PR is now divided into the Damage Types that deal Physical Damage, which means that there are basically 6 different types of Physical Resistance.

    On another note, I've added a little bit of information to how much PR or MS (Magical Shielding) is needed to gain 100% damage resistance. Each type of Physical Resistance requires a 200 to completely resist an element, to give that a bit of feedback, a full set of the lowest set of Heavy Armour would be 20 PR, so...yeah a really large requirement there. Magical Shielding requires a 1000 to get 100% Magical Resistance which to put it plainly is really difficult to get (even though a lot of classes are as far as 1% of the way there at Level 1).

    Classes -

    I've worked out roughly half of the attributes for classes. I've finished everything upto the Guardian except The Havoc which is a little difficult for me to figure out right now. At the moment, three classes have a stat above 10. The Assassin has 10 Speed, The Rain has 12 Speed and the Guardian has 10 Endurance (which is the highest non-speed attribute). Then again, Magical Shielding has a few over 10 but considering it's more of an armour stat so I wasn't counting that.



    Changes as of 26/01/2017 - 4:17 PM (ish)

    Classes - 

    I've finished writing out the Attributes for all the Classes and ignoring the Abberations I managed to get an average of about 20 AL for the classes which isn't too bad. There were a few that needed a 1 point boost or raise but generally most managed to get within 18-23 at the start which is what I was aiming for. You can check the Attributes Sheet for all of them, and do note that yeah. There are some Classes which have lower Attribute Scores and seem weaker right now, but note that those are more of the specialized ones (I think the Healer is the best example). Or they're a class with naturally high Speed/Magical Shielding which wasn't added in.

    Work is going to start on a class in each of the categories to round them out a bit. 

    The Chaos Witch -

    I gave the CW an ability called Nightmare which increases the damage of all Chaos Damage by 33% which is pretty cool. I've added that to the list of Base Abilities like Chaotic Missle (MAGIC MISSLE but with Poison) and Alchemist's Toxicity which basically adds a poison effect to all of the Witch's weapons. This means that for now the Chaos Witch has made it through Stage 1 (Attributes, Defining Features and Base Abilities). 


    This post was edited by SpookyBorn2021 at January 26, 2017 1:25 AM EST
    • 1467 posts
    January 26, 2017 5:56 AM EST

    The Assassin has officialy been posted in it's Stage 1 form, and I made some adjustments that means the Witch is now technically complete as well. I noticed that I hadn't gone over the Stages quite yet.

    Stage 1 is the stage where I've completed the most basic parts of the class including the Attributes, any Restrictions (such as the Chaos Witch needing to be a Female and of a non lawful background) and the Base Abilities, or the very beginnings of the Skill Trees. 

    Stage 2 is where I will have completed at least one of the Skill Trees fully. It's also the stage that confirms that the class will be in the final version of...whatever this ends up as. Before this stage, I might drop one of the classes that I'm not really happy with (for example, I'm not sold on The Havoc or Hunter at the moment) but I doubt it.

    Stage 3 is the final stage and is where the class is completely done. It will have all three skill trees completed and at the stage I might even see about getting some real artwork for them (and have them set up with both PDF's and Word Documents)


    Oh, and one last thing. I'd like some feedback on any classes that people would suggest dropping, I think there are some classes that are relatively similar to others so I might consider replacing them with some other options (which I currently don't have). 

    • 585 posts
    January 26, 2017 12:46 PM EST

    Dragonborn1721 said:

    Oh, and one last thing. I'd like some feedback on any classes that people would suggest dropping, I think there are some classes that are relatively similar to others so I might consider replacing them with some other options (which I currently don't have). 

    Like you said before, either the Berserker or the Ravager could be shifted in my opinion. I really do like both of the classes, but they're a tad too similar, especially as the classes options are quite small currently.

    And I hate to say it because it's such an original idea, but the Barrier Weaver could use some work (which I'd prefer to dropping it, honestly). My main problem with it is that it doesn't really have any strengths - the casting time takes ages, little damage output (either singular or crowds) and the Guardian makes it feel a bit redundant for a controller class. Giving it more options for supporting a party (barriers that can heal, banish demons or turn undead, to name a few) would be a good idea, or even expanding how barriers work - do different sized barriers result in different effects?, could characters walk on the barriers, eliminating the need for flight and avoiding traps or enemies etc? This kind of thing could do wonders for the class.

    • 122 posts
    January 26, 2017 4:08 PM EST

    I also like the idea of the Barrier Weaver, in theory, but unless a barrier can be set up in advance, a surprise attack will end up with them deceased in a heartbeat. Maybe have a choice to leave barriers hanging around the character, and maybe give the option of a reactive barrier which, though only usable a certain number of times, reflects the forces sent at it back to the aggressor? In that manner it would have a little more options in combat, letting the pre-set barriers soak damage while the Weaver establishes new ones on the fly, either for itself or its allies.

    The Guardian reminds me of a Skyrim build I made (for myself) one night when I may have drunk half a bottle of spiced rum, where the only perks were Restoration, Heavy Armor, Block, and Smithing. All the character did was shield bash, protect itself, and cast healing spells for its follower who was doing all the heavy lifting. I named it The Clam, in the vein of the long string of animal-themed builds I'd seen lately (with optional "Paths" called the Clam Chop and the Blue Oyster Cultist, which introduced Axes and Conjuration, respectively). It was actually surprisingly fun to play, since I was nearly impossible to put down and had enough magicka on hand to dump infinity health into my follower while occasionally bonking something with my shield for funsies.

    This post was edited by Mercurias at January 26, 2017 4:10 PM EST
    • 1467 posts
    January 26, 2017 6:51 PM EST

    The Barrier Weaver

    Hmm, I hadn't noticed that the Barrier Weaver is noticeably weaker than others. To be fair I'd originally meant for it to be more of a Team Buffer than anything else, a lot of it's spells can be set up to cover the entire party, or over an area allowing them to have some pretty powerful AoE Buffs that no other class really has. Right, the first thing I'm going to do is take out that bit about them taking a long time. More powerful barriers will still take a longer time but some of the base Barriers will be instant, allowing for Barriers to more reasonably be you know woven together.

    What I might do, is change that to being one Skill Tree (Area Defense), and include Utility, which might not include things like half-flight, but the ability to walk on water, create 'Walls' which enemies have to go around, possibly Illusions and Healing Fields are the sort of thing that would fit in. The Offensive Barriers Skill Trees which grants it some of the offensive barriers I mentioned and maybe some longer lasting personal barriers which act more or less like Skyrim's Cloak Spells.

    It's still going to be weaker offensively than other classes...In fact I'd say the only classes that are as weak as it offensively are the Cleric and Healer (and the Cleric doesn't even need offensive output to win a fight). But it will have a bit more stopping power, be better defensively and have more utility options. 

    Honestly, it's one of the only ones that I think is going to feel unique and original (other than maybe the Runecrafter) so I don't think I'd really consider dropping it but I can definitely see some room for improvement with it. 

    The Berserker/Ravager

    Hmm. Honestly as I write the Berserker (which is happening right now, nearly done with it) I'm starting to see a few major differences. The Berserker has been given the restrictions of No Ranged Weapons, Weaker Elemental Damage (but stronger Pure Damage) and doesn't have access to spells. Add that in with the 'Explosive' (AoE) physical attacks that it has and it really kind of feels a little different to the Ravager, which is all about magic in close combat. But I feel that ultimitely the Ravager is pointless, it's roles are filled by either the Berserker or the Bladesinger, and it just doesn't make sense to keep it in the game.

    Now originally the idea for the Ravager was simply to get a magical class in with the Justice/Vengenace Walks, but I don't think there's really a point in that anymore. At the moment, purely non-magical classes number at 4 (Assassin, Guardian, Berserker and The Rain) which means 14 classes use magic in some shape or form.

    My first idea for a replacement is another Archer. My main ideas at the moment would be to create a kind of Trick Archer that uses more tactical combat strategies than The Rain's "Fire Arrows Until Stuff Dies" technique. That would mean you'd get Tracking , Explosives, Smoke, Elemental, Rope and other Arrows designed more around controlling the battlefield all combined with a slower rate of fire but higher accuracy than what The Rain has. 

    Other options include a Flying Archer (needs a better name) which is basically an Archer that focuses on flying over enemies and firing down on enemies (in other words, a super mobile, fairly strong Archer with a moderate fire rate and accuracy but can't wear armour and is generally rather weak). Some sort of Stealth Archer (which I'd rather not do). The final option would be a kind of...Close Ranged, Area Protection Archer. This class would find a small area to defend and would kind of bunker down and stop anything from getting through there. This Archer would be more focused on Super Accurate shots and using the natural defenses of an area to defend itself. 

    • 585 posts
    January 27, 2017 5:20 AM EST
    Utility options are what the Barrier Weaver needs, I reckon. Illusions are a good call, barriers that look like part of a cave wall would be great for hiding a party, while making a fake door for enemies to try and open in vain would be hilarious - the possibilities are endless.

    Another archer would be a good addition. I especially like the last option - a slow moving tank that stands its ground and draws fire while shooting anyone who comes near, sort of like the Orish Empaler/ Argonian Ebonscale build. Maybe giving the class a slower but more powerful weapon, a crossbow, would fit thematically, although a long bow would serve the same purpose if you want to stick with bows. And going with the concept of using the environment as defence, being able to literally move the ground with intense strength could fit, those bowstrings are heavy after all.
    I think the Trick Archer could merge with the Flying Archer to make a fun class. I initially thought flight would be way too overpowered, but if the class served to distract and block enemies (tying enemies legs together with rope arrows, blinding enemies with flashbang-esque arrows, or even just distracting them by flying close to them and making them shift their attention), it would be a lot more balanced in a party role. It could function almost like the Bard class in DnD, but provides solely debuffs to enemies, with occasional damage dealing to keep it viable, and I'd really like to see a high Charisma class.
    • 1467 posts
    January 28, 2017 3:41 AM EST

    Utility options are what the Barrier Weaver needs, I reckon. Illusions are a good call, barriers that look like part of a cave wall would be great for hiding a party, while making a fake door for enemies to try and open in vain would be hilarious - the possibilities are endless.

    Ah, I'm glad you think that was a good plan. After I wrote it down I just kind of stopped, looked at it in wonder and then felt like a bit of an idiot for not thinking of it sooner. I might be biased but I reckon that completes the Weaver as a character, a weaker offensive paried with ridiculous defenses and the ability to confuse the hell out of enemies is a kind of balanced combination I was looking for. 

    Another archer would be a good addition. I especially like the last option - a slow moving tank that stands its ground and draws fire while shooting anyone who comes near, sort of like the Orish Empaler/ Argonian Ebonscale build. Maybe giving the class a slower but more powerful weapon, a crossbow, would fit thematically, although a long bow would serve the same purpose if you want to stick with bows

    I actually had a thought there. I was thinking about the idea of giving it a mobile weapon that needs to be planted into the ground (Not sure how I'd manage that logically). It'd do massive damage, but the negative is that once you placed it the weapon would pretty much have to stay until the end of the battle. It gives the character a lot more power for sure (For a random comparison, let's say the average damage of The Rain was 2/arrow, well the ____ would do about 15 an arrow). I dunno, I just need to think up some logical rules that would make it usable but restrict movement in battle rather than just saying that you can't pick it up until the end.

    I think the Trick Archer could merge with the Flying Archer to make a fun class. I initially thought flight would be way too overpowered, but if the class served to distract and block enemies (tying enemies legs together with rope arrows, blinding enemies with flashbang-esque arrows, or even just distracting them by flying close to them and making them shift their attention), it would be a lot more balanced in a party role. It could function almost like the Bard class in DnD, but provides solely debuffs to enemies, with occasional damage dealing to keep it viable, and I'd really like to see a high Charisma class.

    Damn...Now I'm really tempted to scrap something like The Hunter (the most boring class for me personally) and add in two new Archers, but that might be a bit much to have 3 different Archers. No you know what, there are still four mostly melee classes (Guardian, Berserker, Bladesinger and Assassin) with a number of other classes that have melee options (Runecaster, Cleric and Summoner) plus we've got the Chaos Witch, Magi, Healer and Elementalist for more magical damage, really The Hunter was just a boring jack-of-all-trades character that I never liked.

    Alright, I'm going to replace the Ravager and Hunter with The Bard-like Archer and the Tank Archer. Thanks for the ideas and feedback Zonn, it was really useful here :D


    Just realised that I hadn't let everyone know, but I did get the Barrier Weaver through Stage 1, and it's up now. Here's the link in case someone wants it a little faster 

    This post was edited by SpookyBorn2021 at January 28, 2017 3:48 AM EST
    • 1467 posts
    January 28, 2017 7:20 AM EST


    Alright, I'm back to square 2 (Square 1 being no recent class changes). I managed to accidentally come up with a character class that makes me kind of want to ditch one of the Archer's,  and to be honest about 50% of this is my extreme bias towards spears, but I think a bit of balance is good and three archers really is too much. 

    At the moment I am keeping Luck's Rain (a small name change to the class, and a bit of a thematic one too) as an Archer, and either bringing in The Tank Archer or The Trick Flyer Archer of Death and Doom...names that need to be worked on. But the second class that I'm taking on is going to be some form of Spearman. 

    At the moment my idea is a class designed in a kind of as a combination of the Runecrafter/Barrier Weaver and the Tank Archer. This character would create an area (using Runes probably) that traps everyone inside of it into fighting to the death. In a way it takes the Runes/Barriers from the first two classes I mentioned and blends it in with the Tank Archer's area management combat style. I'm kind of 150% down for this, but I really like what Zonn and I were talking about with the Tank Archer,, and having two classes that do such similar things isn't really the best idea and The Tank Archer does it in a more interesting way. So I'm not going to be including both.

    I don't know...The more I think about it the better I think the Tank Archer is as a choice here, but I honestly can't think of another type of Spearman that I like (I don't want to go with either a Flying or Horse-Riding Spearman which are the only other ideas I've had) and I really do like that idea, it just kind of seems like a mash-up of the Tank Archer and Barrier Weaver at the moment.

    Anyway, what do you guys think? I'm going to work on the Guardian and Necromancer for now, just skip that section and finish off the one I've already started. 

    • 1467 posts
    January 28, 2017 8:12 AM EST

    Alright, I've finished both the Guardian and Necromancer (At least Stage 1) and I think that's enough for the day (to be honest, I was working on them anyway before I mentioned it, just not as much as I hoped). Anyway, I'll either think about any answers to my above question tommorow or just work on the next set of Classes. 

    Thanks to everyone for their help and feedback so far, it's been really great to see :D

    • 1467 posts
    January 29, 2017 3:33 AM EST

    Finished the Magi and I'm about half way through the Elementalist as well. 

    • 1467 posts
    February 3, 2017 4:57 AM EST

    Damn, I'd meant to leave a thing earlier. Anyway, I've completed the Tank Archer and Elementalist now. After giving it a day I am really happy with how the Tank Archer has turned out, the name could use some work but other than that I think it's the start to a really interesting way to play an Archer, and suitably different from the others that I have planned.

    • 1467 posts
    February 3, 2017 8:54 AM EST

    Hi guys, if you've been wondering why the updates have slowed, its because I wanted to announce a really big step forward here. I've been working on creating my first test-run of the game and actually stumbled my way into what feels like a really obvious way to play. A Game Mode I suppose (of which I have two planned). I won't say that it's original, but it's definitely a pretty good idea IMO.

    Duel Mode

    The Duel Mode is, well basically what it sounds like. The idea is that it can be played with 2-10 players and can last for...well basically as long or as short as you want it to (pushing it past an hour seems unlikely right now, but it's plausible I suppose). The players organise themselves into teams, and then kind of fight it out in a semi-competive (or highly competitive) Duel. This mode would have it's own seperate EXP System (Probably something like Enemy Level/Player Level *Something), would probably have the most simple of items and simply be a fun way to experience the game without needing to spend hours playing through and setting up a campaign.

    The idea right now is that it would definitely be a side feature for the game. It's still mostly going to be a something that's based around playing through large stories with consistant groups of people, but people don't always have the time for that. This allows them to set up a shorter, but still pretty fun way to play the game.


    I'll try and release more details on it soon, but I haven't worked out all the fine details (things like the EXP system, whether Weapons would be set or there would be some sort of item store...that kind of thing) and I want to at least get the base 15 (non-Abberation) Classes finished and then maybe see about starting a kind of Beta Test of the game going...I don't expect any of that to happen until late March/early April. 


    • 1467 posts
    February 4, 2017 3:35 AM EST

    That's two more classes finished. I've finished the Icarus and Luck's Rain today, meaning that the Archer Trio are all finished.

    I did realize that the Category Name doesn't really fit the Archers anymore, so I'll fix that up soon and try and work something that works better. At the very least I only have 4 more classes that I'm going to finish for now (The Abberation Walks are going to come much later) which is pretty awesome, and is happening a lot faster than I thought. 

    Hmm. I'm also going to be starting Races as soon as I finish the last 4 classes, but they've kind of been stuck in my mind for the last week or so (which is why progress slowed). I'm having more trouble trying to think of something that feels really unique to me, or at least different (I doubt unique is possible, but less common is definitely plausible). 

    • 1467 posts
    February 6, 2017 6:07 PM EST

    Both the Runecaster and the Healer have made it through Stage One and are just so difficult for me to finish. Not in a negative way, but a positive way because I'm struggling to actually finish adding content to each of them.

    The Runecaster is much fun to design, the Runes are actually a really adaptable system compared to what I've done so far and I'm trying to think of a way to limit that in someway, maybe make them all a little bit weaker. The Healer on the other hand has actually worked out better than I thought it would, the various restrictions and abilites have turned it into a kind of Anti-Magic Tank at the cost of being really, really weak to physical attacks and not being able to dish out much damage unless an ally is nearby.

    I'll be working on the Havoc over the next 24 hours and I'll be slightly altering the Bladesinger...I've decided to turn it from a heavily Elemental Melee fighter into a bit more of a Druid-Fighter hybrid, with spells designed to trap enemies rather than do damage (And remember these spells are 'cast' through the sword).

    After that I'm debating between either working on Races or possibly creating at least a basic Rules System, at the very least which can be used as a temporary draft to test out how well the classes work out. I was actually thinking of taking some inspiration from Fire Emblem (the recent games at least), to get the movement system down. Oh and I'll be heavily increasing the LF of all classes, at the moment damage is going to mean that anything without a High LF is going to get one-shotted by everything. 

    • 1467 posts
    February 9, 2017 3:37 AM EST

    I've decided to delete the Bladesinger, and replace it with a slightly more interesting class. I realised that the Bladedancer was pretty much just a Bard with a bit more melee and less magic, so instead what I've done is shift the class just enough so that it maintains the same abilities, but uses Dance instead of Song to initiate them. The Dancer kind of functions in combat like the stereotypical Elven Fighter, very elegant and graceful yet still deadly. There's a heavy emphasize on Earth and Nature magic to tie in with battlefield mobility, dodging and that swordplay. 

    That means, that all 15 of the Base Classes now finished (or at least through Stage One) and in other good news I actually managed to figure out something that kind of interested me in regards to Races. I've started working on the first one and hope to have it up tommorow, I've got most of it sorted but I want to see if I can get some sort of Lore going before I upload it (so I can work on Worldbuilding at the same time). 

    • 288 posts
    February 9, 2017 3:42 AM EST

    So which of the above classes uses a greatsword? :P

    • 1467 posts
    February 9, 2017 7:45 AM EST

    So which of the above classes uses a greatsword? :P

    Theoretically as long as it doesn't have a restriction on it then there's no reaosn why they can't (Basically neither the Healer or Havoc can use Greatswords).

    At the moment the Magi, Chaos Witch or Elementalist could use a Greatsword and possibly to great effect later on (It would give them access to a decently powerful melee option that would pair well with their long-ranged offensive spells) but ultimitely it would be less effective than other weapons or just pelting people with more spells. I might end up changing that so that they need at least one hand free to cast spells but I don't really know yet.

    Realistically you aren't going to have many that could use them. The Berserker is by far the best class to use greatswords but the Dancer would work almost exactly the same as it would with a one-handed sword (bit slower but more power and maybe reach) and the Runecaster can work with just about anything depending on what spells you pick. 

    • 585 posts
    February 9, 2017 4:23 PM EST
    I'm digging the Dancer, Deebs, nature-themed characters are awesome. I did like the Bladesinger, but I reckon the Dancer is more unique so I reckon it was a good choice.