Forums » Elder Scrolls

Why is Skyrim so easy?

    • 86 posts
    January 12, 2017 8:26 PM EST

    The one thing that I'm afraid of concerning ES 6 is that bethesda makes it even easier then Skyrim. Skyrim was already borderline way too easy. The same thing can be seen with Fallout 4. Do you think that Bethesda should make big steps to make the next game much more challenging?

    • 697 posts
    January 12, 2017 9:15 PM EST

    Could you explain what you mean in terms of "easy" and "challenging"? 

    • 86 posts
    January 12, 2017 9:42 PM EST

    Legion said:

    Could you explain what you mean in terms of "easy" and "challenging"? 

     

    When I say Skyrim is "easy" I'm referring to the very easy combat, the game holding your hand throughout the game and the lack of thinking needed when entering any given situation. If you can go into a bandit camp at level one and destroy everyone, it is too easy. Of course, you can always turn up the difficulty, but this only results in higher stats for enemies and does not make it harder in an immersive way. Mods like requiem, or even ordinator, does make it harder in an immersive way.

    • 1589 posts
    January 12, 2017 9:50 PM EST

    One of the things I do like about Skyrim is that it can be made as challenging and easy as the player wanted. Sometimes the player wants to feel the big goddam hero and have that epic experience where fighting dragons is a cake walk and flinging master level spells makes you feel like a true wizard. At other times they want to live off the land and soak up the spirit of the world, wearing simple armour or clothes and wielding simple weapons. Indeed, an iron sword still evokes that dark age feel of the setting and in those cases a sabre cat can be a true menace.

    Yet sometimes those choices feel superficial, or that the player must compromise certain things or forcefully suspend their disbelief to attain a meaningful RP experience without sacrificing anything.

    Do you think a survival mode as standard like Falllout 4 has would improve RP, immersion and difficulty without anything being lost?

    • 697 posts
    January 12, 2017 10:00 PM EST

    Decumus Scotti said:

    When I say Skyrim is "easy" I'm referring to the very easy combat, the game holding your hand throughout the game and the lack of thinking needed when entering any given situation. If you can go into a bandit camp at level one and destroy everyone, it is too easy. Of course, you can always turn up the difficulty, but this only results in higher stats for enemies and does not make it harder in an immersive way. Mods like requiem, or even ordinator, does make it harder in an immersive way.

    Gothca, thanks. So to answer your question - while I think ES6 should have some more in-depth combat mechanics, improved AI for added challenge, and perhaps even a "Survival" mode, I don't think pushing the game to such boundaries as Requiem is wise, even just from a marketing perspective. I just don't think the number of players who have fun with challenging combat scenarios that require planning outweigh the number of players who just want to whack something with a sword. The beauty of Skyrim is that, to a degree, you can adjust the difficulty through your own behaviors. And barring that, there's mods. But Bethesda shouldn't conform to mods and certainly shouldn't appeal to a minority of their audience. The relationship that the modding community has with game developers - Bethesda especially - is mutually beneficial. They make the game they want to make and the modders make the game that various niches want. Whether that be more challenging combat, realistic needs for the sake of roleplay, or lusty, busty, argonian maids as followers, modders will take care of us. So I'm thinking Bethesda should develop a base enhancement to both the depth and challenge of combat, but ought to stop short of alienating a large part of their more casual audience by pushing it as far as Requiem or Ordinator. 


    This post was edited by Legion at January 12, 2017 10:02 PM EST
    • 623 posts
    January 12, 2017 10:08 PM EST

    Ordinator doesn't actually make the game harder though, it's just a perk overhaul. The gameplay is effectively the same, you can just do more stuff with what the base game has to offer.

    • 104 posts
    January 13, 2017 5:12 AM EST

    Yes Golden is right, having tried Ordinator, it certainly opens up a world of roleplaying ideas especially for Spellblades/Spellswords, as far as Skyrim being easy I agree with Phil in what he says, some folk want to play the big hero, personally I play on Master difficulty and the game rewards that by killing you very easily, you have to plan attacks and ill admit run away if things go pear shaped.

    • 140 posts
    January 13, 2017 6:05 AM EST

    This is exactly one of the reasons I like Morrowind so much; It doesn't hold your hand, and it is very difficult early on. You can walk into some ordinary looking cave at level 1, then get outright slaughtered by the first enemy. You go back at around level 10 or so, however, and things are very different. Add in that it doesn't auto-save whenever you walk inside, and it really makes you think before just entering caves willy-nilly.

    If Bethesda would do away with all that level-scaling crap, I could see TES:VI being much more challenging.

    • 623 posts
    January 13, 2017 6:11 AM EST

    Caesar said:

    This is exactly one of the reasons I like Morrowind so much; It doesn't hold your hand, and it is very difficult early on. You can walk into some ordinary looking cave at level 1, then get outright slaughtered by the first enemy. You go back at around level 10 or so, however, and things are very different. Add in that it doesn't auto-save whenever you walk inside, and it really makes you think before just entering caves willy-nilly.

    If Bethesda would do away with all that level-scaling crap, I could see TES:VI being much more challenging.

    The worst part about it is that in Skyrim they actually have the system in place to make it like how you desribe Morrowind. They just rarely use it, which is exactly what the description for MorrowLoot Ultimate says "Skyrim's enemy scaling is governed by Encounter Zones, which control the minimum and maximum level spawns within. If a dungeon's Encounter Zone has a minimum of 20, and you walk in at 10, it will treat you like you're 20. Skyrim hardly uses this mechanic". It would have been nice if the base game actually used it instead of needing a mod to be able to use something Bethesda built into their own game.

    • 457 posts
    January 14, 2017 12:35 AM EST

    I think I'd rather have Bethesda err on the slightly 'too easy' side. As it is, because I don't really care for their mechanics for increasing the difficulty, I play at Adept level, but gimp my characters via perk selection in ways that make gameplay both challenging and more rewarding on a RP level. 

    That said, if they were to amp the difficulty up by altering the game's AI (instead of doing the exact same thing except making it take longer), I would definitely give it a whirl. I'm not above a challenge, I just want it to feel worthwhile ;D

    • 773 posts
    January 14, 2017 9:37 AM EST

    Well, speaking as someone who generally sucks at games, I wouldn't agree that 'Skyrim is way too easy'..

    Adept difficulty was about right for me on Skyrim, and I don't mind admitting I'd turn down to Apprentice, even Novice, in certain situations. There I said it - hate on me if you like lol

    The point being that Bethesda isn't really aiming their games at the dedicated gamer, the type of person who frequents a site like The Tamriel Vault. They are aiming at the general / casual gamer. That's why they sold 10 million copies of Skyrim (or whatever it is by now). They know that the dedicated gamer is going to install a mod to make the game hardcore, and that's absoultey fine for those who want that.

    Same goes for Fallout. Except with Fallout they added the hardcore mode as a patch later for those who didn't want to or could not install mods.

    So I'd say Bethesda, on the whole, got things just about right.

    • 294 posts
    January 14, 2017 10:18 AM EST

    My first playthrough was on adept. Second and onwards on Expert. I tend to install difficulty mods now, but you know, I can run around and make Skyrim difficult on Vanilla too if I really select carefully or focus on different things. What I wish they'd lose for ES 6 is scaled leveling. There should just be places that are just too stupid to venture into in level 1. No, you should not be able to punch Alduin to death at level one with a khajiit, NO. lol, and yes, I have done this and yes, it is fun, but no, just no. 

    • 104 posts
    January 14, 2017 10:53 AM EST

    I don't know if easy is the right word, simplistic perhaps, my forst playthrough on Adept was anything but easy, I know what you mean though mate, it seems easy as most of the time you are led by the hand especially through the main quest, and no you should not be able to punch the World eater to death at any level, no no no

    • 488 posts
    January 14, 2017 11:49 AM EST
    It is easy if you only play a certain way. There are so many facets to the game coupled with multiple difficulties.

    If one only plays a specific type of character with max crafting, yeah, it is going to be easy. If one plays multiple paths and tries new combinations, it is going to be hard as shit.

    Easy is such a subjective label and we can only have our own opinions on it. Skyrim is not an easy game. It is only viewed as such based on our own choices.
    This post was edited by Henson at January 14, 2017 11:49 AM EST
    • 122 posts
    January 17, 2017 6:04 AM EST
    Limit your healing to one kind (Potions only, Restoration only for a Mage, etc.) and hit the first set of Dwemer ruins you can on Master. Enjoy the bug spray.
    • 86 posts
    January 21, 2017 11:25 PM EST
    Paul said:

    Well, speaking as someone who generally sucks at games, I wouldn't agree that 'Skyrim is way too easy'..

    Adept difficulty was about right for me on Skyrim, and I don't mind admitting I'd turn down to Apprentice, even Novice, in certain situations. There I said it - hate on me if you like lol

    The point being that Bethesda isn't really aiming their games at the dedicated gamer, the type of person who frequents a site like The Tamriel Vault. They are aiming at the general / casual gamer. That's why they sold 10 million copies of Skyrim (or whatever it is by now). They know that the dedicated gamer is going to install a mod to make the game hardcore, and that's absoultey fine for those who want that.

    Same goes for Fallout. Except with Fallout they added the hardcore mode as a patch later for those who didn't want to or could not install mods.

    So I'd say Bethesda, on the whole, got things just about right.

    I understand completely that Bethesda wants to reach a much larger audience and so making the game really challenging isn't in their best interests. However, I do think that things such as enemy level scaling is just not immersive and generally feels like the whole world revolves around me. I remember playing old RPGs such as Dragon Warrior where you would get your ass kicked if you went in a certain area. I think Bethesda should head that direction while not making it extremely hard such as Dark Souls, which will turn off most casual gamers.
    • 623 posts
    January 22, 2017 12:43 AM EST

    Decumus Scotti said:

    I understand completely that Bethesda wants to reach a much larger audience and so making the game really challenging isn't in their best interests. However, I do think that things such as enemy level scaling is just not immersive and generally feels like the whole world revolves around me. I remember playing old RPGs such as Dragon Warrior where you would get your ass kicked if you went in a certain area. I think Bethesda should head that direction while not making it extremely hard such as Dark Souls, which will turn off most casual gamers.

    Thing is they've actually moved away from that type of difficulty. Back in Morrowind it was like that, and in fact Skyrim has the systems needed for it Bethesda just never really used them.


    This post was edited by Golden Fool at January 22, 2017 12:43 AM EST
    • 7 posts
    February 11, 2017 1:46 PM EST

    I don't really consider myself to be "casual" but to be honest it's a very broad and subjective term. I usually play on adept but effectively never power game - I don't take more than one crafting tree most of the time, for example, and I've always played with the unofficial patches which fix a lot of more powerful exploits/glitches.

    I don't think Skyrim is too easy. Yes, with certain builds/playstyles you can pump up the difficulty and feel immortal. I recently tried an Arcane Archer build which was fun, but ridiculously OP. I was slaughtering the world without taking any damage within the first couple of levels. When I've tried to level cloth-wearing destruction mages though, unless I run like the wind I'll get a giant hammer to the skull and die in one hit. And running like the wind can be tricky in some of these caves! It's the same when you're just starting out on a dagger-sneak character if you picked something that's not a wood elf or khajiit. Your leather wearing gimp arse is going to get handed to you when those plated, waraxe wielding bandits inevitably spot you because you're as stealthy as a drunken horker.

    I can certainly see the frustration in the limitations though. What if you WANT to play a sneaky archer AND have a challenge. You want to be rewarded for your good aim and timing, but everything falls flat on its face because that's what sneak arching does. And the same applies to a lot of fun builds - the right combinations just make you a power house. I still don't think that's an issue with the game being too easy though - rather an issue with certain builds not being well balanced, certain styles being too powerful.

    I don't think Skyrim is even in the same league as FO4 though. Again it was partly a build thing, but I remember one shotting all the things playing on er... what was the difficulty below survival? Very hard? Anyway, I could comfortably be mowing things down on VH by about level 15-20 regardless of build, unless I'd decided to go all crafting and building with no perception or strength aside from what was needed for crafting perks.

    I'm always wary of the issue of hardcore vs casual or hard vs easy because it reminds me of games like WoW, where it seemed a relatively small number of people (if anyone remembers Wrath of the Lich King, it was often people who hadn't finished clearing hard modes and were probably frustrated with their lack of progression in the harder game but bored with the easier game) complained enough for the game to change dramatically and rapidly haemorrhage half its player base (yes, there were probably other factors etc etc).

    On the whole Skyrim is flexible enough to create your own challenges, but that might mean playing in styles you really don't enjoy or making characters you can't connect with, which does suck.

    Also is this old enough to count as necro?


    This post was edited by Vixsyn at February 11, 2017 1:47 PM EST
    • 552 posts
    February 11, 2017 2:20 PM EST
    I like the balance combat-wise. If you roleplay, the game can be as hard as you want it to be.

    The real issue is the quest marker. If we turn it off, we won't be able to finish quests because NPCs rarely, if ever, give directions.