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Can a Daedra disband from their realm and make his own?

    • 224 posts
    October 24, 2016 12:11 AM EDT

    Hello,

     

    I'm creating a concept of a story to later make a rich story in the most lorefriendly way I can, to make all fit.

     

    Would be nice to know what do you think in a most lore friendly way, means using references, characters, facts, events, etc. All referenced to Elder Scrolls.

     

    The question:

     

    Can a Daedra disband from their realm and make his own?

    • 649 posts
    October 24, 2016 1:21 AM EDT

    What kind of Daedra? And disband? Like disband an army? 

    • 224 posts
    October 24, 2016 2:05 AM EDT

    Karver said:

    What kind of Daedra? And disband? Like disband an army? 

     

    For example, imagine some Dremoras and Xivilais who are on the Deadlands and for some reason, specially the Xivilais decided to rebel against Meh runes Dagon and escape from The Deadlands and make his own realm or world in another plane or on Oblivion (by some reason those Deadreas where able to do it)

     


    This post was edited by Medieval at October 24, 2016 2:10 AM EDT
    • 649 posts
    October 24, 2016 2:10 AM EDT

    Alright, I´m going to quote UESP here, just for the general idea.

    There are over 37,000 pocket realms of Oblivion with drastically varying purposes. Some are created by Daedric Princes as a prison or purgatory, while others are the homes of certain lesser Daedra.

    Pocket realms are part of Prince´s realms, obviously, but they still have their own rulers. Like...pocket realms of Evergloam, Shade Perilous or Crow´s Nest, with both rulers of these realms answer directly to Nocturnal.

    Now the other realms...take Soul Cairn for example. Ideal Masters are not considered Daedric Prince(s), but we know they are the Soul Cair, or at least part of it (the crystals)

    Now other example is Gaiar Alata or Paradise if you want, created by Mankar Camoran with the help of Mysterium Xarxes. Just as he was able to cut off a piece of himself to create his children, Ruma and Raven, with Mehrunes Razor, he was able to...cut off a piece of Tamriel?... to create pocket realm of Dawn´s Beauty.

    And what about Battlespire where Imperial Battlemages were trained? There were dozens of portals leading to dozens of pocket realms, who were mostly controlled by various clans of Dremora, Dark Seducers, Atronachs, who still were answering to some Prince.

    And lastly, some ESO shit.

    Infernace (also known as DOP 6) is a pocket realm of Oblivion. It is a realm of extreme heat and molten rock, and is the home of the Flame Atronachs. It is well known to all conjurers due to the ability to summon subservient atronachs from the realm. The Fourth Sinus of Takubar, a realm of extreme cold, is an inversion of Infernace.

    Despite being considered a highly-organized and physical realm, the reality of Infernace is not a projection of the mind of any particular Daedra. Instead, it was created as an extension of its Flame Atronach inhabitants. Realms such as Infernace as termed 'collective realms', and are considered relatively exceptional. However, collective realms are also rather mundane and uniform, and the endless magma and fumaroles of Infernace are no exception.

    The clan structure of Infernace is unknown, and no hierarchy has been observed due to the difficulties involved in distinguishing individual Flame Atronachs. The realm may have come under the rule of Mehrunes Dagon during the invasion of the Battlespire, when the Flame Atronachs swore allegiance to Shardai Clan. The realm was once visited by the DemiprinceFa-Nuit-Hen.

    Generaly, it takes immense power to create a pocket realm, and I´m not even talking about fullblown Daedric Realm of Oblivion. Planes aren´t just realms of Princes, they are Princes. So you need either new Prince to create fullblown Plane or you can create pocket realm with some powerful Artifact, or with the help of mage who reached creatia. Just note that Daedric Princes are mostly subjugating these pocket realms.

    I think this should help you form some image of how it works.

     


    This post was edited by Karver the Lorc at October 24, 2016 2:14 AM EDT
    • 641 posts
    October 24, 2016 4:17 AM EDT

    A Demi-Prince could create their own realm but I doubt the rank and file Dremora could.

    • 224 posts
    October 25, 2016 8:47 PM EDT

    Karver said:

    Alright, I´m going to quote UESP here, just for the general idea.

    There are over 37,000 pocket realms of Oblivion with drastically varying purposes. Some are created by Daedric Princes as a prison or purgatory, while others are the homes of certain lesser Daedra.

    Pocket realms are part of Prince´s realms, obviously, but they still have their own rulers. Like...pocket realms of Evergloam, Shade Perilous or Crow´s Nest, with both rulers of these realms answer directly to Nocturnal.

    Now the other realms...take Soul Cairn for example. Ideal Masters are not considered Daedric Prince(s), but we know they are the Soul Cair, or at least part of it (the crystals)

    Now other example is Gaiar Alata or Paradise if you want, created by Mankar Camoran with the help of Mysterium Xarxes. Just as he was able to cut off a piece of himself to create his children, Ruma and Raven, with Mehrunes Razor, he was able to...cut off a piece of Tamriel?... to create pocket realm of Dawn´s Beauty.

    And what about Battlespire where Imperial Battlemages were trained? There were dozens of portals leading to dozens of pocket realms, who were mostly controlled by various clans of Dremora, Dark Seducers, Atronachs, who still were answering to some Prince.

    And lastly, some ESO shit.

    Infernace (also known as DOP 6) is a pocket realm of Oblivion. It is a realm of extreme heat and molten rock, and is the home of the Flame Atronachs. It is well known to all conjurers due to the ability to summon subservient atronachs from the realm. The Fourth Sinus of Takubar, a realm of extreme cold, is an inversion of Infernace.

    Despite being considered a highly-organized and physical realm, the reality of Infernace is not a projection of the mind of any particular Daedra. Instead, it was created as an extension of its Flame Atronach inhabitants. Realms such as Infernace as termed 'collective realms', and are considered relatively exceptional. However, collective realms are also rather mundane and uniform, and the endless magma and fumaroles of Infernace are no exception.

    The clan structure of Infernace is unknown, and no hierarchy has been observed due to the difficulties involved in distinguishing individual Flame Atronachs. The realm may have come under the rule of Mehrunes Dagon during the invasion of the Battlespire, when the Flame Atronachs swore allegiance to Shardai Clan. The realm was once visited by the DemiprinceFa-Nuit-Hen.

    Generaly, it takes immense power to create a pocket realm, and I´m not even talking about fullblown Daedric Realm of Oblivion. Planes aren´t just realms of Princes, they are Princes. So you need either new Prince to create fullblown Plane or you can create pocket realm with some powerful Artifact, or with the help of mage who reached creatia. Just note that Daedric Princes are mostly subjugating these pocket realms.

    I think this should help you form some image of how it works.

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    Thank you Karver!, yes help me a lot :)

    So what I have understand by your arguments,

    -"Pocket realms are part of Prince´s realms, obviously, but they still have their own rulers"

    - "Planes aren´t just realms of Princes, they are Princes"

    - "So you need either new Prince to create fullblown Plane or you can create pocket realm with some powerful Artifact, or with the help of mage who reached creatia"

     

    The points I think most interesting are: the realms can have they own rulers and can be created pocket realms with some powerful Artifact or with the helpof a mage who reached creatia (I'm not totaly sure what is this creatia, I have to investigate, but would be nice If you know could tell me)

     

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    Let me tell you in abstract about what is it (By the way you kind find more on my post: http://tamrielvault.com/blogs/6990/4419/my-project-the-dark-legion-cult , I have changed a lot of things and correct others)

    Is fan fiction, but I want to do it the most lore friendly possible, means try to make it all fit

    I'm going to tell you the concept in abstract of my story (what I plan to do it with dialogues and detailed descriptions, but I'm working on the concept first),

    The abstract put here isn't really needed to be read, but would be better to. Because will help to understand better why I did that question. By the way you can find in short the reason of the question I made, into the marked question down here "What have to do this related....

     

     

    If I miss something is because I'm telling you the concept, the main idea of the events. In abstract:

    All starts with an Imperial teen named Septimus Darkforges on Cyrodiil, before the Oblivion crisis (I have to put a precise date, I'm thinking on that) on the days nearly "The Arena game" events when Jagar Tharn did the Imperial Simulacrum (3E 389 - 3E 399), while the Imperial City was in chaos, some necromancers took adventage of the situation, I was thinking on a Necromancer character related to "The Necromancy Ban of 3E 431" maybe an Imperial Battlemage who was part of the Mages guild and in those days he didnt agree about The Necromancy Ban events (here is something about http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Olenveld ) ,  so he and his group of necromancer attack the Imperial city for some time to the point, people flee of the city and ones of them who flee was Septimus, all his family and house was assault, leting him alone and just to survival in to the wilderness, he ran away, pass for some towns before go finally in direction to Morrowind to Seyda Neen port.

    On Morrowind Septimus earn his life as a merchant and create his own faction of merchant named "The Merchant Guild of Cyrodiil" got some loyal friends and his guild grow up to the point influence local towns and then even minor cities.

    After some years, Septimus decided to go back to Cyrodiil and take his company with him. On Cyrodiil he also incluence the economy of towns and cities and that take the attention of The Emperor Uriel Septim VII, he order an interview with Darkforge to tell how he manages his company, Darkforges tell him all, what he does, his plans and even he applies startategies and tactics to manage it. The Emperor make him an offer to support the Empire on the economics and the military and take a job as a Military strategy mind (I want to add some wars and conflicts, some minors and some bigs, because is fanfiction, but I will try to make all fit on the most cases). Darkforge agreed, in some point of the beginings of The Merchant Guild of Cyrodiil, it formed a special group inside the same faction, some who learn about Mysticism and Conjuration School, related mostly to Necromancy and Daedra worship named The Dark Legion Cult. When Darkforge get more condifend with the Emperor he told about a special faction inside the Merhcant Guild, The Emperor agreed keeping it in secret and was allow that hidden faction act just in special causes and in the most critical occasions, then with the Oblivion crisis Dark Legion Cult members still alive by his necromancer features and help to fight againts the Mehrunes Dagon invasion also to get free in some way.

     

    What have to do this related to the question I post??

    Because, let me explain the concept first, The Dark Legion Cult receive energies for his proposits from a plane of Oblivion a realm named Void of Immortal Terrae what is inhabitated by Dremoras and Xivilais (from Deadlands) (Works in the way similar to Soul Cairn). What I plan to do also is make that realm world named Void of Immortal Terrae will need souls to exist as the inhabitants of the land, in some way those Xivilais and Daedras who live there are like a kind of brute vampire who needs souls and their energies to live, they get stronger and If they not supply their energies with souls they got weak similar to a vampire who need blood. Like the Liches.

     

     

     

    Let me ask you some questions, If you are able to respond:

     

    -What is the difference between: 

    Daedric realm, Oblivion realm and Pocket realms

     

    -Do you know about Half-Daedra Princes? What do you know of them?

     

    -What do you know about Creatia?

     

    - Let me ask again because knowing now what I posted back I think is more understable to know what is the point of the question:

    Can a Daedra (from Deadlands) disband from their world (Deadland) and create his own world realm as for example Mehrunes Dagon did and create The Deadlands and Molag Bal creates Coldharbour? What do you think of it?

     

     

    Again thanks, because help me to develop my story


    This post was edited by Medieval at October 26, 2016 9:44 PM EDT
    • 224 posts
    October 25, 2016 8:54 PM EDT

    Veloth the Qahnaarin said:

    A Demi-Prince could create their own realm but I doubt the rank and file Dremora could.

     

    But what about a Xivilai?

    Xivilais are independant beings what It said on UESP:

    "Xivilai are highly intelligent Daedra that look like tall and muscular gray-skinned warriors. They are similar in many points to the Dremora, but do not have a caste system. Their lack of a caste system fits perfectly with their hatred of subordination and tendency for betrayal. They are also often in the service of Mehrunes Dagon"

    • 104 posts
    October 27, 2016 7:10 AM EDT

    I suspect the main problem to be if any of the Daedra decided to go their own way, should they die, their essence should or would return to the waters of Oblivion from whence they came, now as the named Daedra were created by their princes on their plane of Oblivion, then technically they could make good their escape untill they die or are killed.

    • 224 posts
    October 28, 2016 2:31 AM EDT

    Bonelord said:

    I suspect the main problem to be if any of the Daedra decided to go their own way, should they die, their essence should or would return to the waters of Oblivion from whence they came, now as the named Daedra were created by their princes on their plane of Oblivion, then technically they could make good their escape untill they die or are killed.

    Alright, thanks for your comment