Forums » Elder Scrolls

Stormcloaks vs Imperials

    • 743 posts
    September 26, 2016 12:25 PM EDT

    The elves are weakened somewhat yes, but they are still a force to be reckoned with, and like I said before they have the Wood Elves and the Khajiits to call on as well. And the Empire isn't likely to let their legionnaires fight alongside the Stormcloaks after they killed so many of their brothers/sisters in arms. The wounds are too fresh to even think of an alliance

    The Empire has to help the Stormcloaks, there is simply no other choice. If the Empire allows Skyrim to be invaded and captured, (highly unlikely) then the Empire will be attacked on multiple fronts. You're correct in the regard that war grudges don't heal overnight, but grudges will be the least of concern when the elves come knocking on their back door. 

    It was a little after 1 year this all took place, they JUST signed the peace treaty, and the Emperor HAS NO WAY OF KNOWING FOR SURE HOW STRONG THE ENEMY IS (I had to put it in caps because it's important to know). WE know from information produced AFTER the events that the Dominion may not have been able to fight. But even the lore doesn't state outright they were even. The Emperor can only make decisions based on the given information he had on hand, he just signed a peace treaty, the Imperial capitol was sacked, the land hadn't even healed from the scars of battle. I heard some people from other forums saying the Dominion was bluffing and the Empire should have call out the Dominion's bluff. That's reckless. It endangers the innocent people of both Cyrodiil and Skyrim, and for what?

    It's reckless that the Empire signed a damned treaty totally and utterly alienating Skyrim and Hammerfell. It's reckless that the Empire has waited decades before even considering striking back at the Thalmor. It's reckless that the Empire brands the sons and daughters of Skyrim criminals for wanting to rule themselves. Calling out the elves' bluff was the least reckless thing they could've done.

    Ulfric knows that he is being fended off by a single legion  and as of the start of the Game, they already won. Ulfric was captured, and about to be executed. It is only because of Alduin's attack he survived, and subsequently his rebellion survived. The Stormcloaks are just getting started but they're only 1 half (if that) of skyrim, while the Legion forces have ALL of Cyrodiil, the 1 legion that's been holding off the rebellion, and the soldiers in High Rock. Not counting the (very few) elite troops that were left in Hammerfell. If Skyrim becomes independent by killing imperials to gain independence, Ulfric won't just allow more Imperials back into Skyrim to help, and would be less likely to offer their help, even if they both hate the Dominion.

    If it means self-perseverance, Ulfric will allow the Empire to assist them. I don't think an independent Skyrim needs their help, but if it does, the Empire will come, out of pure self-perseverance. The imperials will not try to retake an independent Skyrim, as they cannot waste any more troops or resources that could potentially be used against the elves. (I know you didn't say outright that the empire would retake Skyrim, I just thought I'd go ahead and address it.)

    The Empire could very well attack Skyrim themselves, bitter at the loss of the nation, its troops, possibly its Emperor, and out of fear Ulfric will instigate a premature attack on their lands.

    Now you are suggesting that the Empire will retake Skyrim. Here's where you are wrong; the imperials cannot afford to retake Skyrim with a larger threat wanting them to do just that. They simply could not afford to waste resources on an independent Skyrim, especially considering that it could be an ally in the fight against the Thalmor. 

    Indeed if the Thalmor invade Skyrim, they'll have multiple fronts to attack the imperials from. But Skyrim and the Empire have grudges and will do nothing unless directly attacked.

    You just proved my point here, considering an invasion is a direct attack.

    Just because they have a common foe doesn't mean they are going to forge an alliance because an alliance is defined by mutual benefit, that means "You do X for me and in return I do Y for you". I have in fact been attempting more research on the actual provinces and their relations, one thing I did come across is the fact that Skyrim still owns parts of Hammerfell. SO that means 1 of 2 things, either the Redguards could in fact use the lands the Nords took as a bartering chip in forming an alliance, or Hammerfell won't forge ANY sort of alliance partly due to fear of losing MORE lands having the Nords "help" take out the Thalmor. This honestly could go either way, but for me it just tells me Hammerfell isn't likely going to accept help from anyone. If Hammerfell was losing ground, or losing too many men, or if they were advancing on the Thalmor, collecting ships and supplies, someone approaching them with aid/supplies could forge an alliance to face a common enemy. As is stands now, Hammerfell is fine on its own. 

    You know what the mutual benefit would be of forging an alliance against the Dominion? Self-perseverance of their own respective provinces. It's common sense man.

     


    This post was edited by Rogue at September 26, 2016 12:28 PM EDT
    • 743 posts
    October 5, 2016 12:57 PM EDT

    #Threadnecromancy 

    • 558 posts
    January 24, 2017 10:41 PM EST
    You aren't seeing things from the Empire's point of view. They spent five years in a bloody war, losing their capital city, and then regaining it through the genius of the emperor. The Cyrodiilians had their home back. There was probably an immense pressure on Mede to sign the treaty from his advisors, generals, and the population. Mede decided that he needed to rebuild his army and signs the treaty, and his plan is foiled by a Nord with a silver tongue. This doesn't explain why he accepted the harsh terms. That is Mede's one and only blunder in the Great War.
    • 558 posts
    February 2, 2017 10:03 AM EST
    One thing not mentioned yet is the birth rate of the Altmer. They reproduce way slower than every other race on Tamriel, so their troop count is still hurting from the Great War.
    • 743 posts
    February 2, 2017 10:09 AM EST

    Gollum said: One thing not mentioned yet is the birth rate of the Altmer. They reproduce way slower than every other race on Tamriel, so their troop count is still hurting from the Great War.

    This is an excellent point and another reason why I believe the Empire is moronic. How long ago was the Great War in Skyrim? 25-30 years? If they were going to strike back, they would have done so already. 

    • 33 posts
    February 2, 2017 11:08 AM EST

    I was never into poiltcs but I can see both sides in this war.Now lets start off with the stormcloaks the Nords,Their homeland is Skyrim and they do have better resources and their leader does have the voice however most of the time stormcloaks don't think well in terms of strategy they just charge in with out a thought well to be fair they do think but not all the time and they don't have magic as well this may seem minor but healers can help them if they do get injured but they do have good weapons and they have a bunch of horses their armor is really well protective and since it's light armor they can run fast without taking a break so that's what I think of the stormcloaks,now the imperials.The imperials their homeland may not be Skyrim but instead Cyrodiil which is where they get all there suppiles and their soldiers to and imperials do use there heads in battle what I mean is they think of a strategy and use that to win their battles which is very helpful in a war,they also have really good armor however it is heavy and they need to take a lot of breaks from it,now lets look at their cons,They don't really have the best weapons and their camps are kinda small in fact it can be taken out in a couple of minutes they also don't have the thum on there side they may have horses but they lack to use them and most of the time they defend a fort or city instead of attacking stormcloak camps that could be nearby there mages are not that strong I won't go into full detail into it,and that's the imperials. What do I think? I think both sides are matched but they need to act now or else the elves will finish it.

    • 6 posts
    February 2, 2017 2:12 PM EST

    for me, imperial seems the most logical option. Yea the white gold concordat banned the blades, banned talos and all that, but it also stopped Cyrodil from falling under complete control of the thalmor. Cyrodil, you know, the heart of the economy in Tamriel? The imperials were losing the war, it was accept the terms of surrender or be wiped out by thalmor forces. Once the empire is rebuilt stronger, perhaps after a certain listener assasinates a certain emporer in the hope that the next brings a new age of prosperity through Tamriel, then Skyrim and Hammerfell can declare war on the summerset ilses, with economic aid from Cyrodil - the economic heartland of Tamriel, just in case you forgot - and force the Altmer to give back thier portion of Hammerfell and admit they're just wankers who all look like they have liver failiure.

    Now let's see what happens with the stormcloaks in charge. Ulfric is happy to keep skyrim running independantly, preparing for an attack from the elves. The empire, now with no influence in skyrim, decide to completely withdraw. After the embarassing execution of General Tullius, the empire is happy to leave Ulfric to his isolationist views. Now the elves attempt to reclaim Skyrim. Stormcloaks at every port, as you said. the elves wouldn't stand a chance in a full frontal assualt. But what about stealth? As Delphine said, "We fought them in the dark." spies and assasins everywhere. Jarls killed in thier quaters. A skilled illusion mage - the schoocl altmer are most gifted in - can get almost anywhere. But that's not an issue, a secret police can be formed, extra guard put up everywhere, checkpoints in each hold, spies would become impossible. But who's going to pay for all that? Skyrim? Ulfric can barely afford to keep his men armed and armoured. His men never carry sharpened swords, thier bows are simplistic, designed for hunting rather than warfare, so what happens when a powerful illusion mage armed with a dagger summoned from oblivion and the ability to make his skin hard as a dragonhide walks into whiteren and takes out the jarl? pandemonium. Clan Battleborn grab the throne and order the exile of the greymanes and boom. No more stormcloak influence in whiterun. Jarl Ulfric goes to Hammerfell, but they redguards are too busy holding off the thalmor. He goes to Cyrodil, but after the civil war Ulfric and the Emporer are probably not on the best of terms. He goes to the neutral provivnces, but, as  keep saying, Cyrodil is what keeps Tamriel going. To ally yourself with Skyrim could destablise trade links with Cyrodil. And whiterun, the trading hub of sjyrim is under Battleborn control, and seeing as Ulfric betrayed the empire, it's unlikely the Battleborns would want to do any to aid him. So they set up blockades around Whiterun. More assasinations. Everybody loyal to Ulfric is dying. Winterhold falls under the rule of an elven jarl, a jarl that does not shun magic users. More assasinations. Stormcloaks either stay and die, or take thier families to Cyrodil or Morrowind. more Ulfric begs the Empire to help. He is more than happy to die, but not to let his precious land fall into the hands of the elves. So The empire steps in. Checkpointss are set up Guards are tripled. Clan Battleborn is convinced to reopen whiterun. The empire saves Skyrim.

     

    Dang that was a long response! Sorry if I rambled a bit, if it doesn't make sense I won't be offended if you challenge everything I've said.