Forums » Elder Scrolls

Gender Roles in TES

    • 700 posts
    January 25, 2016 9:34 PM EST

    So you know how the Stormcloaks are made up of men and women (which makes sense considering that they're revolting; surely every able body who believes in the cause would be allowed to fight) but the Imperial Army as it appears in Skyrim seems to be roughly 99% male? The only two female soldiers I can think of are Legate Rikke and the captain that sentences the player to death.

    Both of them are of some esteemed rank, but it got me thinking about why no other females seem to be present in the Imperial Army. Not only that, but it got me thinking about all of TES. 

    So, my question:

    What gender roles exist within the different races of TES? 

    What kind of conclusions, if any, can we draw from the evidence we have?

    • 1595 posts
    January 25, 2016 9:50 PM EST

    Confirmed: Stormcloaks are revolting

    • 66 posts
    January 25, 2016 10:01 PM EST

    Imperial scum!

    I'm curious what the ratios are in the previous titles for the Imperials. In general, I notice Bethesda puts a strong effort towards making their games gender neutral.

    • 700 posts
    January 25, 2016 10:06 PM EST

    I think they're adorable in their little blue outfits, playing war.  

    • 700 posts
    January 25, 2016 10:13 PM EST

    I'm curious about the same thing. I never paid much attention in Oblivion, though I do remember all the guards in the Imperial City being male. That's hardly enough to go on, though. I've noticed the same thing and it makes me wonder if it's just that subtle. I know Orc women have certain roles or fill certain roles by a majority, but I don't know the details on those. 

  • January 25, 2016 11:52 PM EST
    There are definitely a handful of female NPCs who are former Legion soldiers, so I have to imagine that the lack of women among the generic grunts is more a developer oversight than anything.
    • 700 posts
    January 26, 2016 12:00 AM EST

    I remember there's one in Dawnstar, right? Is her former rank ever revealed? It seems like an odd oversight to make, right? 

    • 1595 posts
    January 26, 2016 12:03 AM EST

    The Imperial legion in Oblivion didn't include woman iirc. Yet I think the ranks of the Imperial Battlemages (The Shadow Legion) did include a few ladies. If not I'd caution this could be a case of gameplay and lore being separate due to a development asset issue.

    In ESO the ranks of the Imperial Guard had woman among its number.

    In Imperial society there have been female heads of the Fighter's Guild, there have been empresses and there have been countesses.

    • 700 posts
    January 26, 2016 12:09 AM EST

    Hmm, yeah, I thought it might come down to a case where gameplay becomes separate. I'd hope not, if only because the implications of women in high-ranking positions but not in grunt roles seem pretty interesting, 

    • 649 posts
    January 26, 2016 12:57 AM EST

    Actually, Oblivion had Imperial Legion women, it just never make it to the game, which is weird, because the voice acting was already done, but Bethesda for some reason didn´t include it. 

    • 1595 posts
    January 26, 2016 5:32 AM EST

    Is that so? Colour me impressed and also somewhat disappointed. Now I wonder what "Stop! You have violated the law!! would sound like coming from a mighty legionette :D

    I'd hope not, if only because the implications of women in high-ranking positions but not in grunt roles seem pretty interesting

    Well let's lore this. Are there any matriarchal cultures in lore where men play the grunt roles? Maybe the Ashlanders...?

    • 649 posts
    January 26, 2016 5:59 AM EST

    Ashlanders? Well, the clan is lead by Ashkhan, the strongest male warrior, with wise-woman being his advisor. Sounds familiar now that my article on Orcs is out?

    The difference is that Ashkhans actually listen to their wise-women a lot. More precisely, everytime that wise-woman gives her advice, Ashkhan follows it. 

    Edit: Farseer or Oracle-Seer are called those wise-women.

    • 641 posts
    January 26, 2016 6:03 AM EST

    Well you've got the Mabrigash who are an all female (as far as I know) Ashlander tribe.

    The Green Lady in Bosmer culture is always the military leader.

    • 649 posts
    January 26, 2016 6:14 AM EST

    Actually, Mabrigash are outcasts of Ashlanders. They are warrior-witches feeding on the life force of men.

    If TES ever had extreme feministic group, it´s Mabrigash

  • Tom
    • 624 posts
    January 26, 2016 6:20 AM EST

    I want to say captain.

    EDIT: Nope, legate.

    • 641 posts
    January 26, 2016 6:29 AM EST

    Yeah but they are essentially their own tribe now, just a heterodox one. You can hang with them in ESO.

    • 1595 posts
    January 26, 2016 6:50 AM EST

    Legion, if you won't go the lore group, the lore group will come to you. Its tentacles are indiscriminate and blah, blah, blah I've said this before

    Good call on the Magribash and Green Lady (I met her, she's hot). What others can we think of? What about Reachmen and their Hags and Hagravens?

    • 649 posts
    January 26, 2016 7:11 AM EST

    I would certainly like to point out Orcs too. While the chief is the leader of the tribe, his wives actually "rule" the tribe and he only observes from distance.

    And I´m not sure about Hagravens. I always had a feeling they´re more like allies.

    • 1595 posts
    January 26, 2016 7:39 AM EST

    There's a quest in which you are sent by a Briarheart (a friendly one who raises eyebrows by answering questions about his acorn blood pump) to find the Eye of Vengeance. It ties in nicely with your Reachmen vs Orcs when both revere Malacath.

    This Reachman doesn't want war and hates that both races are the playthings of the god of vengeance. He realises that as long as both races worship Mally, both will swear oaths of vengeance against each other and nothing will ever change. He is terrified that the Hagravens will find out what he thinks and indicates that the tribe will do their will. The Eye must be destroyed but he cannot touch it for such is the power of the Hagravens that they will know when one of their own touches the Eye. They control all, it seems.

    • 649 posts
    January 26, 2016 1:01 PM EST

    Hm, that´s Orsinium right? Didn´t get to that quest yet, I think I only started it.

    But I really love that Reachmen worship Malacath too. It gives them more dynamic feel:. It´s certainly better than dumb Forsworn.

    • 1595 posts
    January 26, 2016 2:59 PM EST

    What about Wyressess? We have to head west to Glenumbra to find these witches. Not a single male in sight.

    • 649 posts
    January 26, 2016 3:22 PM EST

    Yeah, I remember them. Weird Wyrd  I was actually surprised that Bretons still aknowledge Ehlnofey. I never bothered with learning something about Bretons. 

    • 700 posts
    January 26, 2016 3:52 PM EST
    I'm okay with the tentacles seeking me out! I quite appreciate it actually. I wasn't sure where to post this but thought I could reach more people here. I'm actually in classes right now, so I'll give some more substantial input in a few hours, once I'm home. Interesting stuff I'm reading though!
    • 700 posts
    January 26, 2016 7:43 PM EST

    Iiiiiinteresting. Thanks, Tom. More fodder for my conspiracy theories. 

    • 700 posts
    January 26, 2016 8:09 PM EST

    @Karver

    I would certainly like to point out Orcs too. While the chief is the leader of the tribe, his wives actually "rule" the tribe and he only observes from distance.

    From what I've gathered on Orcs, most of it from your lore article actually, I almost got the impression that women, as a group, simultaneously hold superior and inferior social positions. There are the wise-women who are mothers to the chieftains, the wives of the chieftains, and then the chieftains daughters who are traded to other chieftains. So it's interesting to see a culture where where women are so highly valued as spiritual advisors, wives that only the chief can have, effectively run the stronghold with forging, cooking, and hunting, yet are bought, sold, and traded as commodities to forge alliances. So...I don't really have a point as much I just find the situation really interesting :P

    @Phil

    What about Reachmen and their Hags and Hagravens?

    Aren't Hagravens basically the leader's of the Forsworn? The matriarch leaders who went through some awful ritual, sacrificing humanity for really powerful magic? Just from what I've observed, they seem to be the only beings within  the Forsworn able to perform the Briarheart ritual. But beyond that, I don't know how witches are chosen to become Hagravens and if they're worshiped for any reasons beyond being really powerful and and giving the Forsworn the Briarheart warrior, a very powerful tool.