Forums » Fallout

• Chris

  

  • 1441 posts
   

  January 19, 2016 5:59 PM EST

  Now rhat Fallout 4 has been out for a few months, let's talk about the Brotherhood.. Now, most people have mixed views on Maxson. From what I've read, fans of the older games were pissed at Lyon's Brotherhood being the "good guys" when before, back in Fallouts 1 and 2, they were a more moreally gre group..

  But, let's talk about the Brotherhood under Arthur Maxson, descendent of the founder of the Brotherhood of Steel. We first meet a younger Maxson in Fallout 3. Here it seems he has crush on Sarah Lyons, daughter of Eldor Lyons. He becomes Elder shortly after her death during battle. Under Maxson, not only has the East Coast Brotherhood become more like their West Coast counterpart, but now they wish to eradicate all Ghouls, Synths, and Mutants. Alongside that, the quests the Prydwen's medical officer asks are eerily similar to ones a Nazi doctor might ask. 

  People have compared the Brotherhood to the Nazi regime, not unlike how people did so with the Aldmeri Dominion. On the other hand, people also compare them to Warhammer 40K's Imperium of Man,  fanatically religious space marines fighting in a galaxy teaming with immense, galaxies wide war. 

  What do you fillies and gentlecolts think? 

  Is Maxson's Brotherhood of Steel:

  

   

  This?'

  or this? 

• slitter

  

  • 8 posts
   

  January 19, 2016 6:15 PM EST

  I wouldn't compare them to either, not fully sure what warhammer 40k is though so I might be wwrong, don't remember anything about them hating all ghouls though just ferals, anyways they feel distinctly steampunk to me in this one and well I'm not their biggest fan they didn't feel as fascist as they did in older games
• Overhate

  

  • 288 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 7:16 AM EST

  What always intrigues me in such discussions is the difference in perception about "the Nazi regime" as it's called above. The so-called "western" world (North America + Western Europe) seems to accept without any question that the "Nazis" are/were the ultimate evil and any comparison to them is therefore bad. The rest of the world - not so.

  On to the topic - I don't particularly like the BoS in F4, however I don't see much resemblance between them and the German Third Reich. In terms of WW2 an argument can be made that they are actually closer to the USSR (strength in numbers, militant but a bit outdated technology; while the Germans were mostly cutting edge for the period).

• Karver the Lorc

  

  • 649 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 7:31 AM EST

  Lol. Thalmor are Nazis, Brotherhood of Steel are Nazis...I wonder what faction will be compared to Nazis next time...Really, I´m becoming annoyed by these comparisons.

• NoOneIsHear

  

  • 43 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 8:10 AM EST

  Space marine definitely they look like them they have a man god figure, and that's before you compare their views. Space marines hate zono's, brotherhood of steel hate anything "non human", they're both very militaristic, there ranks reminiscent of each other. They are ridiculously similar they even both wear something called power armour, I wonder who got the idea from who. It would not surprise me to see a member of the brotherhood of steel shout out burn the heretic, kill the mutant and purge the unclean. 

• Chris

  

  • 1441 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 10:00 AM EST

  Good point, and has someone who has studied the events of the Holocaust and spoken with survivors, and hearing how a number of people in the Nazi Party (Oskar Schindler anyone?) actually helped the Jews. 

• Mirric

  

  • 411 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 10:21 AM EST

  THE THALMOR ARE NAZIS! THE BROTHERHOOD OF STEEL ARE NAZIS! THE STORMTROOPERS ARE NAZIS! WE ARE ALL NAZIS!
• A-Pocky-Hah!

  

  • 321 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 10:28 AM EST

  Geez, Bethesda really has a thing for Nazis. Elven Nazis (Thalmor), Wasteland Nazis (BoS), Advanced Nazis (Wolfenstein Nazis) .... wonder what's next on their Nazi list.

• Mirric

  

  • 411 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 10:32 AM EST

  Scale-Back Nazis?
• Justiciar Thorien

  

  • 393 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 12:03 PM EST

  The funny thing is that the ones who scream about the Thalmor/the Brotherhood/whoever else being Nazis the most are in fact the Naziest Nazis of all))) Skyrim belongs to the Nords after all, huh?

• Chris

  

  • 1441 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 6:30 PM EST

  Oh yeah, and then there's the comparisons between Ulfric and Hitler. 

• Chris

  

  • 1441 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 6:30 PM EST

  Dunmer Nazis? Magic Nazis (Dishonored)?

• Gollum

  

  • 558 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 6:50 PM EST

  The Institute is way more Nazish imo.

• slitter

  

  • 8 posts
   

  January 20, 2016 9:24 PM EST

  IYeah with their whole kidnapping for weird experiments thing i agree but other than that not sure. But do we ever even get the reason they make synths? I've tried but given up on their questline multiple times
• Asks-Many-Questions

  

  • 278 posts
   

  January 21, 2016 1:28 AM EST

  I fee like there has to be a way to analyze game factions without resorting to just saying, "They're like this group" or "no, they're more like that group." It's almost always reductive, and it often leads to the focus being more on the examples than on the supposed subject of the analysis. And some of the other comments here are making me pretty mad, so I'm just going to ignore everything after "let's talk abut Arthur Maxson."

  In this case, I'd say the Brotherhood of Steel under Elder Maxson is an interesting case. They're the only faction in the Commonwealth with both the drive and the ability to implement their vision for civilization upon the wasteland other than the Institute (the Minutemen are far too weak, and the Railroad is uninterested in governance), but that vision comes at the point of a laser rifle. No compromise.

  Is it worth it? I guess it depends on your point of view. For "pure" humans, it's a pretty good deal. Order, security, access to resources and technology that otherwise is unavailable. For those whose definition of "people" includes more than just "pure" humans, though, or those who aren't totally keen on fanatically upholding a restrictive and uncompromising belief system...

  From a writing standpoint, it's obvious why they had the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 4 revert to the more morally gray version rather than Fallout 3's heroic protectors: the Minutemen basically fulfill the narrative role of "defenders of the people" already. So, the Brotherhood is altered to be more of an anti-heroic or anti-villainous group that has noble intentions, but whose methods are questionable. They're the sort-of-good-guys who, because of genuinely incompatible worldviews, eventually find themselves in conflict with the other mostly-good-guys.

  Personally, I can't get into the Brotherhood storyline at all. I don't really agree with their view that non-human beings like ghouls and synths should be destroyed, and while I think their military style is interesting, I don't have a lot of desire to join even if I'd betray them later.

• Chris

  

  • 1441 posts
   

  January 21, 2016 1:39 AM EST

  Good points Asks. 

• Trouty

  

  • 12 posts
   

  January 22, 2016 9:17 PM EST

  I agree with most of your points. I did a playthrough (one of my first), with the BoS. I've always loved them, and I find their methods of implementing their ideas rather interesting, despite the fact their actions usually lead to the slaughtering of people in some way. Nevertheless, after I finished the main storyline with the BoS, I felt kind of, unaccomplished. As though everything I just did, was pointless in a way.. My favourite faction quite literally is The Institute..
  
  But more to the point, I kind of like Maxson, not just his rule, but his character as a whole. He is what you would expect from a (still rather young) leader of the BoS. Struggling to live up to the expectations of his predecessors, trying to uphold the BoS way to the teeth. He is hard on his soldiers, and his drive to achieve his goals is quite admirable. Sure, the way he goes about things sits clearly in that gray area of wrong and right.. But that's what makes him great.. America was founded on sketchy decisions and unrecognised slaughter, but it is still a great country and all. The Brotherhood is a fantastic faction in it's own right..
  
  Long live The Brotherhood! :)
• Asks-Many-Questions

  

  • 278 posts
   

  January 22, 2016 9:49 PM EST

  Yeah, lots of people like to hate on Maxson, but I think he's a decently well-done character. He has the sort of energetic fanaticism that really only comes with advancing so far while still young - he's got the fervency of a true believer, but without the tempering that comes from experience. That youthful fire has helped him rise through the ranks, but it also makes it very hard for him to see beyond his own rhetoric to the much more mundane, but important, facts about living in the Commonwealth. Most people aren't going to care about the dangers of technology or humanity's future, they just want to know if there's going to be enough food to go around tonight, or if an eight-foot-tall mutant is going to run over the hill and start killing people. That's something that I don't think he really understands, and that's why his Brotherhood isn't as positive a force in the Commonwealth as he believes it will be.

  The Institute is also my favorite faction, because I find complex villains far more interesting than simple heroes. They're very much the opposite of the Brotherhood of Steel: The Brotherhood seeks to reclaim the power of the old world in service of those still living, while the Institute seeks to slough off the last vestiges of pre-war civilization and create something entirely new. Given how much I've complained that the Commonwealth isn't alien enough compared to pre-war civilization, that's something that appeals to me.

• Jeffrey

  

  • 41 posts
   

  January 23, 2016 12:40 AM EST

  I would dare to say the Nazi regime saved Germany, and in the end, probably saved further economic damage elsewhere
• A-Pocky-Hah!

  

  • 321 posts
   

  January 23, 2016 12:56 AM EST

  Added Elven Mengele Nazis (Dwemer)

• Chris

  

  • 1441 posts
   

  January 23, 2016 1:07 AM EST

  Eh, I mean, Hitler did boost up Germany's economy and education, as well as help industrialize Japan, but still...

• Jeffrey

  

  • 41 posts
   

  January 23, 2016 1:24 AM EST

  If the German economy completely fell, it's likely the entirety of Europe would have fallen with it in the end.
  
  As it is, the war revitalized EVERYONE's economy
• Chris

  

  • 1441 posts
   

  January 23, 2016 1:54 AM EST

  Yup, and it all began when the Allies dicked Germany over after WWI

• Chris

  

  • 1441 posts
   

  January 23, 2016 1:55 AM EST

  I don't think they're like Mengele per say, they didnt try to use bleach to change eye color

• A-Pocky-Hah!

  

  • 321 posts
   

  January 23, 2016 2:11 AM EST

  True but what they did to the Snow Elves is kinda similar to Mengele experiment towards children.

  There was also the torture tools inside some dwemer ruins... Irkngthand etc.