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A Guild Well Done: The Dawnguard

    • 1460 posts
    January 18, 2016 10:26 PM EST

    One of the most under-discussed guilds of all time. Do you consider the Dawnguard champions of justice? Murderous Vigilante's? or something else entirely?

    Here we discuss the quests, items and characters involved with the Dawnguard Faction, and how they stack up in the Elder Scrolls world. 

    • 404 posts
    January 18, 2016 10:58 PM EST
    To Jake, they are like a second family besides the Companions. He is their special agent and the Companions Liaison. The Dawnguard are pretty good to him, they let him work their Forge and train their Dogs. Jake works hard for his Family and fights for them.
    OK now for my own opinion on them. They are pretty cool, but I wish I could hire more people and train them. I would help them out and give them supplies.
    • 1580 posts
    January 18, 2016 11:04 PM EST

    I like how we never really know for sure the exact true intent of the original Dawnguard. All the different accounts forces the player to just accept what it is now rather than recreate what once was.

  • January 19, 2016 1:13 AM EST

    I actually agree with that sentiment. As much as pointless ambiguity gets in my craw, I think it works well here because it's not really done as the usual fantasy "we are the chosen ones" shtick, but rather "Hey, we like to kill vampires and there used to be some folks who maybe liked to kill vampires, too. Let's name ourselves after that." It's almost like the Minutemen from Fallout 4 or Caesar's Legion in New Vegas; they get the idea from the past, but aren't slaves to it. (Though, the Legion did involve slaves. Just not metaphorical ones. They were literal.)

    • 320 posts
    January 19, 2016 1:51 AM EST

    Like what Phil said, the origins of the Dawnguard are shrouded in mystery. Were they criminals? protectors turned vampires? or just a forgotten group of vampire hunters. That is what I like about the Dawnguard is that you never know who the original Dawnguard were and you're just picking off where they were once known for.

    Main questline was good but it didn't feature much of the Dawnguard in action (except for the last quest). Side quests were great but depending if you're going immersive or not, getting back to Fort Dawnguard without fast travelling can be a pain.

    • 1460 posts
    January 19, 2016 2:02 AM EST

    Personally I think Dawnguard is pretty much the most boring Guild (Way to strike out against popular opinion). The characters there are really lacking in depth, interesting characteristics or anything that makes them unique, not even including the actual semi-generic characters (You know, those fellas, whose names nobody can remember). Compared to the Vampires who while aren't interesting, have an interesting dynamic between them (The Court Styling of the Volkihar is a lot more fun).

    The quests are rather dull, but that goes for the entire DLC in my opinion, especially early on (It takes way too much set-up to really get the Dawnguard going.  Even the side-quests are just kind of lack-lustre (Again, when compared to the Volkihar they're boring as all hell). 

    The items, are in my opinion where the Dawnguard get a lot of redemption. Sun Spells, Dawnguard Rune Axe, Hammer and Shield are all badass enough, but the Dawnguard Armour is pretty cool as well. But Crossbows are just bitching, absolutely awesome. They totally changed Ranged Combat for me (they're functionally very different from Bows.)

    All in all I'd say they're on par with the College, rather boring characters and a very boring quests, but some interesting rewards and items for completing it all. 

    • 43 posts
    January 19, 2016 4:14 AM EST

    The dawnguard to me are fanatics (especially Isran), all the dawnguard does is kill all vampires without even thinking about it. Not all the vampires are evil witch is something the dawnguard don't get to them vampire = evil, its a rather one dimensional view of vampires witch in a way makes them more realistic as that is a lot of people would take on vampires. In my mind they are just the lesser of two evils fanatics or bloodthirsty vampires take your pick.

    • 641 posts
    January 19, 2016 4:39 AM EST
    That's not strictly true, they don't kill Serana and even accept her.
    • 122 posts
    January 19, 2016 4:56 AM EST
    After working on Bleeding Sun, I've found a newfound respect to the band of vampire hunters that I used to call overzealous and close-minded. While they pale in comparison to the Volkihar in terms of influence (part of the appeal, actually!), I really like the way they're organized. Much like a motley crew of mercenaries, I for one can relate well to the Dawnguard members, whereas most of the Volkihar vampires just piss me off. The DG have camaraderie and unity, something I have yey to see in the Volkihar side.
    • 1460 posts
    January 19, 2016 8:00 AM EST

    I haven't played that far into it for quite a while, but from memory I don't remember much acceptance of Serana, to me it always seemed like she was more useful to them alive rather than dead.

    I could be wrong though, I just always thought of it as an alliance of convenience rather than anything else. 

    • 1460 posts
    January 19, 2016 8:02 AM EST

    I definitely get that, though I do love the way that the Volkihar piss me off, it makes them more real in my opinion, kind of like the Dark Brotherhood, where a couple of them (Cicero for example) really annoyed me, but I still kind of liked them for it.

    But yeah, I do enjoy the small, mercenary feel to them. I just think it could have been done better overall, and the characters could have been developed more (I mean... Other than Isran I find them all to be forgettable.)

    • 641 posts
    January 19, 2016 8:11 AM EST
    Either way that isn't something kill crazy fanatics would do.
    • 1460 posts
    January 19, 2016 8:38 AM EST

    True, though on the other hand you could just say Serana is a single exception, and she does want to be cured (possibly) so it might even out.

    I do think the Dawnguard tread a fine line between protection and the fanatic murderers that NoOneIsHere describes. They remind me somewhat of the Grey Wardens from Dragon Age, they're a generally nice bunch but will do absolutely anything to end the threat that they face. 

  • January 19, 2016 11:20 AM EST

    I've never understood this impulse to declare vampire hunters "fanatics" and condemn them for seeing vampires as dangerous. Um, you do realize that vampires eat people, right? It's kind of their whole deal. It's like saying the mice are fanatics if they band together to fight off the cat.

    • 273 posts
    January 19, 2016 11:26 AM EST

    I feel like the Dawnguard could have been done better, like a lot of the things in Skyrim it's just missing depth, if it had developed its characters more and given us more story than a half-assed prophecy then the Dawnguard could have been great.

    They seem to talk very little of the original Dawnguard, which would have been interesting and if there was some kind of pure sun mage that would have been pretty cool, instead of having some random guy give you tomes.

    Overall, I like the Dawnguard DLC as a whole, but it certainly needs a few touches to make it more interesting.

    • 1483 posts
    January 19, 2016 11:51 AM EST

    They drink blood, not actually eat people  Although there are some who do... 

  • January 19, 2016 11:59 AM EST

    I was being figurative. 

    • 43 posts
    January 19, 2016 12:35 PM EST

    I think did not get my point across well my main problem with the Dawnguard is there leader who is a fanatic. Which is why I dislike the Dawnguard, as good people who are scared can often led astray by a fanatic like Isran.

  • January 19, 2016 12:53 PM EST

    How exactly is he leading them astray? They've been attacked by vampires or seen others who have, and have decided to fight back. The threat is real - vampires will attack innocent people in Skyrim constantly if you have Dawnguard installed.

    He may be a bit on the extreme side ("Sleep is for the weak!"), but it's hard to argue that he's not wise to be somewhat paranoid, given what he's up against.

    • 1580 posts
    January 19, 2016 1:34 PM EST

    Seconded. I feel that way about dragons too, particularly the Paarthurnax one.

    • 43 posts
    January 19, 2016 1:36 PM EST

    I am not saying they are I am just sating why I dislike the Dawnguard and who knows what Isran does with them after, and I am not saying the threat is not real. Also some paranoia bad against vampires, but not on Isran's levels.

    I must be really bad at getting my point across my main problem with the Dawnguard is Isran and why he might do with the Dawnguard after the threat is over, which is a problem due to his fanatical nature.

    I hope its clearer now.

    • 1437 posts
    January 19, 2016 1:45 PM EST

    I really like the Dawnguard, but Isran seems like a Redguard(?) version of Elder Maxson, willing to wipe out all vampires, even if they just want to live peacefully, like Janus Hassildor. 

  • January 19, 2016 1:48 PM EST

    I guess. I just don't agree with you. At all.

  • January 19, 2016 1:58 PM EST

    How many friendly vampires does he come into contact with, though? I mean, it's not like there's a bunch of Dawnguard quests where you're sent to kill a vampire and it turns out they're just living peacefully in a cabin somewhere. All of the vampires the Dawnguard deals with, save Serana, are vicious monsters.

    I mean, I get the "We shouldn't judge everyone by their nature and give people a chance to redeem themselves" and all that noise, but ... it seems like everyone is blaming Isran for not just automatically attempting to make peace with vampires first, even when it's clear he has every reason to see them as dangerous and untrustworthy as a rule.

    The only point in the story where he is approached by a vampire wanting peace ... he lets her in! He's suspicious and surly about it, but he still does. So, the only actual time he's given the opportunity to put his hatred of vampires above peace ... he passes the test!

    I think this is another situation where they popular perception of a character has been exaggerated far beyond what the actual character is like. Isran is a surly, somewhat paranoid (but rather justifiably so) hardass who is obsessed with the threat of vampires --> ISRAN IS RACIST HE WANTS TO KILL TEH NICE VAMPIRE!!!!

    • 1580 posts
    January 19, 2016 2:03 PM EST

    +1, very good post.