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What has gaming done for you?

    • 1595 posts
    January 3, 2016 3:39 PM EST

    @ Karver and Vaz Enough of this mushy stuff, we're men dammit! Let's behave as such

    • 1483 posts
    January 3, 2016 3:40 PM EST

    My Ph.D. is in Differential Equations and I got it in Armenia, though I studied all the three years required for it at Rostov-on-Don and passed all the exams and certifications there.

    • 1483 posts
    January 3, 2016 3:46 PM EST

    • 1595 posts
    January 3, 2016 4:09 PM EST

    I think it's not just sample size, but it's just one angle, one approach, one research question. The results here beg answers to a bunch of other questions (obviously since we easily dig into the implications here) and I think we just don't have a complete picture yet.

    True that. Am I right to think this is the first such study of it's kind? If so then maybe it can be forgiven and part of the exercise was to identify other questions in need of addressing? At the very least it has dug up a whole host of other factors to consider as you said.

    I think that's a very interesting point, but to that I might also argue that the mind is still quite plastic, and I think to suggest we're unchangeable doesn't give enough credit to our awesome brains. We only believe we can't change or adapt, but we do it all the time in a number of other ways. The drive to change is the other part of that equation. If it sounds optimistic, it's because it is. I know that wanting to change can be equally hard, and we find ways to justify talking ourselves out of it all the time because of it. But perhaps this is a bit off-topic. 

    Optimism is a great point and scientifically proven iirc. The human brain is hardwired to be hopeful otherwise life would have made us give up long ago. I get where you're coming from I think, that the flexibility of the human brain ensures we can be spontaneously inspired to do things and explore new experiences. You may got to the cinema and watch the new Star Wars with your most geekless friend and leave with the biggest fan ever. I'm not denying that possibility.

    But what about the other side of the scale, those who were geeks but gave it up when they met the love of their life, or some other life-changing event? Is that evidence of emotional needs being met more adequately than that which a hobby can provide?

    Uhm. Excuse me? Cough #rephilourhearts cough. I would argue otherwise. 

    There's no way I can retort without sounding like more of a totally ungrateful a-hole than I already have. Yet if I had died rather than flounced there'd be no noticeable difference aside from the lack of my return. I'm not saying those who cared about me wouldn't be sad or effected in some way (if they ever even discovered the truth which is unlikely) but can it be said it is similar to losing someone close?

    As far as online friendships being inferior to real ones, I think again there's a ton of variation there. For some, certainly. But there's no way that's the case for every instance. To suggest otherwise is an overgeneralization. Especially for people who are more introverted in their daily lives, or struggle with making friends. There are far fewer factors behind a screen than in real-time interactions, and that can give people the space to relax more and be their genuine self more easily, which I think can in turn lead to more meaningful connections. I just think it's impossible (and maybe even a tad disrespectful) to generalize or classify all online friendships as inferior to all real ones when we have no idea what everyone's individual experience is. 

    Yeah, that was a bit out of line on my part. You've got me on the defensive now, a sure sign you're winning this debate  (I don't view it as a contest btw, just making a joke). Overgeneralisations are my thing! I don't know that I think I am necessarily wrong, though I can only really base my views through the lens of my own experiences.

    I said further back how I have difficulty interacting with people in real life. I like to think this isn't because I am a dickhead but because I choose to keep people at arms length for whatever psychological reason.

    So I have turned to the internet and made online friends to fulfil an emotional need in my life. Even here I still keep people at a distance but will concede that there are those who relax much more than I. For an internet friendship to evolve into a "normal" friendship I think it has to go through the same basic stages as any other relationship of it's kind.

    As an introvert my relationships are small but meaningful so for that to hold true of an online friendship it must go through the same tests as a regular one. Normally the distances between people can impede that process and stop the friendship evolving.

    However, all that is based on what I consider a friendship to be and to me true friends are lifers and will be there right until the end.

    • 215 posts
    January 3, 2016 4:27 PM EST

    Kind of a wide hodge podge of things.  Some good some not so good.  It just depends on the day of the week sometimes.  Mainly I've actually made some long term friends.  Strangely (to some I guess) I've never met many of these friends but we text, chat or talk to one another weekly or even more often.  Several I've been very close friends with for almost 20 years.  And while I haven't met many, they are some of my friends I feel closest too and share my happiest and most troubling thoughts and can always rely on them to be concerned and supportive. 

    On the negative side, sometimes I get way too engrossed in a game and play it to an extreme sometimes staying up way too late, sometimes skipping out on real life things that I later regret (sometimes).

    But I also feel it's helped keep me young at heart as I've gotten older in years. 

    • 694 posts
    January 3, 2016 6:15 PM EST

    Am I right to think this is the first such study of it's kind? 

    An exceedingly brief review of the literature (by which I mean, I just skimmed the References section ) tells me that there has been some other research done on geek culture. You'll also find they've cited previous research on narcissism, openness to experiences, and self-determination in personality. But obviously the research question is original otherwise they likely would have had trouble getting published. 

    But what about the other side of the scale, those who were geeks but gave it up when they met the love of their life, or some other life-changing event? Is that evidence of emotional needs being met more adequately than that which a hobby can provide?

    Ha, I'd say it's probably more likely to be a reordering of priorities than a straight willingness to give it up.  But obviously I'm biased and just speculating wildly here. I have literally no idea. Perhaps the "love of your life" stuff would fulfill an emotional need that I would consider to be somewhat separate from geek culture/gaming. I would think it lends itself to filling an occupational or situational void more than anything else. A lack of real life interpersonal connections is just sort of a side effect I guess...?

    I guess if I were going to generalize it I would view it as... those who seek to fill some void (whatever it is) and pick gaming or geek culture to do so, view it merely as a distraction but not because it's immersive. I don't think it's as conscious a choice as that. I think the fact that it's a distraction alone is enough. They stick with it because it's immersive nature supports escapism. But the distraction people seek to fill a void could be anything. The people who pick gaming/geek culture are more likely to be introverts, because they aren't extroverted by nature and feel drained by social interaction instead of invigorated by it. Maybe people who are extroverts are more likely to pick distractions like drinking and partying to fill that void. Or maybe the only reason we're quick to cite gaming and geek culture is because we're all here instead of at an AA meeting or something.  Again, all wild speculation mixed with generalizations here. 

    I'm not saying those who cared about me wouldn't be sad or effected in some way (if they ever even discovered the truth which is unlikely) but can it be said it is similar to losing someone close?

    Well I know there would definitely be a huge void here if something ever happened to you. I don't think anyone would be able to ever really fill your shoes. 

    As an introvert my relationships are small but meaningful so for that to hold true of an online friendship it must go through the same tests as a regular one. Normally the distances between people can impede that process and stop the friendship evolving.

    Here's where you have me on the ropes a little. I get what you're saying about online friendships needing to undergo testing like a regular friendship, but obviously the conditions or circumstances won't be quite the same. I can't quite put my finger on what the equivalent "tests" would be. Generally I think a show of support, understanding, and being of a similar mindset is a good start though. I think those things could be replicated. 

    • 700 posts
    January 3, 2016 6:15 PM EST

    Sure, I can tell you about how I started. I haven't actually answered my own question yet, at least not all in one place, so this can count for part of that. 

    I started gaming because a childhood friend gave me a Gameboy Color with Pokemon Blue. My parents didn't allow me to have video games up to that point though they acquiesced since it was a gift. Part of why I got so into gaming so quickly is because I was deprived of it for so long while all my friends were not. It was a forbidden fruit so I went into it with a lot of excitement. 

    It started as and always remained a social activity for me too (perhaps due to growing up in the era of game link cables and couch co-op) and has helped me establish and maintain friendships. I've rolled with gamers all my life, so I never really chose to be a geek (which I don't actually "identify" as, but that's another amusing discussion), but I don't think we're disagreeing. I didn't mean to imply that people choose to be geeks if I did. I just mean that gaming could be as indicative of deeper issues as it could be for someone who grew up in a healthy environment with two parents that game. Or like me, something was forbidden, and, therefore, appealing that was then nurtured through positive social interaction. 

    • 1595 posts
    January 3, 2016 6:33 PM EST

    That's an interesting biography, not what I was expecting to be honest.

    I just mean that gaming could be as indicative of deeper issues as it could be for someone who grew up in a healthy environment with two parents that game. Or like me, something was forbidden, and, therefore, appealing that was then nurtured through positive social interaction. 

    Huh, now I think I'm getting it. Gamers are no more maladjusted than any other member of our godsforsaken race but just manifest it differently?

    • 1595 posts
    January 3, 2016 7:12 PM EST

    An exceedingly brief review of the literature (by which I mean, I just skimmed the References section) tells me that there has been some other research done on geek culture. You'll also find they've cited previous research on narcissism, openness to experiences, and self-determination in personality. But obviously the research question is original otherwise they likely would have had trouble getting published. 

    There's a crap ton of reading in that list. Is the reason narcissism is being studied in geek culture because it has been done to death in other areas of society? The novelty of picking at us nerds hasn't worn off yet I guess.

    Could you break this down for me? I can't wrap my head around it:

    Although fantasy proneness has typically been associated with dysfunction, recent work has shown it to have two factors: a factor associated with strong imagery and strange beliefs and a factor associated with daydreaming and enjoyment of fantasy [22]. While the former factor is associated with dysfunction, the latter is not. Thus, normally occurring levels of fantasy proneness may positively predict geek engagement even in normally functioning individuals.

    I guess if I were going to generalize it I would view it as... those who seek to fill some void (whatever it is) and pick gaming or geek culture to do so, view it merely as a distraction but not because it's immersive. I don't think it's as conscious a choice as that. I think the fact that it's a distraction alone is enough. They stick with it because it's immersive nature supports escapism. But the distraction people seek to fill a void could be anything. The people who pick gaming/geek culture are more likely to be introverts, because they aren't extroverted by nature and feel drained by social interaction instead of invigorated by it. Maybe people who are extroverts are more likely to pick distractions like drinking and partying to fill that void.

    Now I've got you generalising we're definitely on the same page  The thing about geek culture, then, is that the same immersion which lends itself to those who stay with the escapism also lends itself to narcissism. It's like the perfect recipe and stomping ground for your average puddle-peering narcissist. Hell the more I read into this the more checkboxes of this trait I am ticking, that's disturbing - "Narcissists' views tend to be contrary to reality." Hmm, maybe I should start agreeing with everything.

    Well I know there would definitely be a huge void here if something ever happened to you. I don't think anyone would be able to ever really fill your shoes. 

    I'm not fishing here Ed. It was merely an example to illustrate a point.

    Here's where you have me on the ropes a little. I get what you're saying about online friendships needing to undergo testing like a regular friendship, but obviously the conditions or circumstances won't be quite the same. I can't quite put my finger on what the equivalent "tests" would be. Generally I think a show of support, understanding, and being of a similar mindset is a good start though. I think those things could be replicated. 

    That "show of support, understanding and being of a similar mindset" is the boundary really isn't it? In a normal friendship these things get tested over time: "How could you do that? What were you thinking? I trusted you." etc...

    If those bonds still hold when all is said and done the friendship can then evolve into something more.

    That's when platonic love, or as Ankin would say, unconditional love  enters the equation. Some one can have many friends but few people they love unconditionally. Can an internet friendship ever go beyond that step and still remain an internet friendship?

    Do you think the process could be replicated in digital form and somewhat anonymously?

    I'm not saying that those who are in the friends category can't greatly enhance another's life and bring joy to their day, nor am I trying to diminish the importance of that role. However, I can't help but see it as one small piece of a puzzle in a larger picture. Vaz  and I are friends. Do I think for a minute he gives me any thought other than when he is here? No.

    • 700 posts
    January 3, 2016 8:39 PM EST

    Huh, now I think I'm getting it. Gamers are no more maladjusted than any other member of our godsforsaken race but just manifest it differently?

    Right! That's really all I was saying. 

    That's an interesting biography, not what I was expecting to be honest.

    Stick around, I'm full of surprises. 

    • 1595 posts
    January 4, 2016 4:10 AM EST

    Will do my liege (on)

    • 41 posts
    January 4, 2016 6:25 AM EST

    The only thing videogames ever taught me is that insomnia is a disease, as for addiction ? I suppose it's better than drink and drugs, but why complain eh ? It ain't like I got anything better to do with my time, and when your eyeballs have cat like reflexes, well you must be doin' somethin' right, right ?

    • 9 posts
    January 5, 2016 4:59 AM EST

    Games have made me speak in a more refined tone, watching how some game characters talk to each other and seeing how the other characters react to them makes me want to have that sort of relationship with the people around me. So in that sense, I think now, it has made me imitate characters a lot, to see what the non-gamers around me think about it. Kind of like a social experiment.

    • 394 posts
    January 7, 2016 9:54 AM EST

    I have no time for crap like that. To me it's just the Grumpy Old Luddite brigade trying to excuse the fact that they can't or won't (usually both) adapt to new tech: trolling by people who don't use this new-fangled Internet thing all the horrible young people go on about.  I think of them as the modern illiterates.

    Every new tech is slated as harmful by the previous generation: Gaming, videos, before that TV, before that radio, before that books, before that the printing press etc. etc. etc.  

    I've been gaming all my my adult life & I think narcissistic is 1 of the last words I would use to describe myself; although I definitely was in my teens (pre-gaming). I think Edana's point about millenials, particularly given the selfie craze, is a very good one. 

    I haven't read the article but what I've seen here seems to suggest ignorant generalisations & drawing conclusions of correlations that aren't necessarily shown by the research.  

    This is a gaming site; we enjoy gaming (I do anyway), so let's just do so. I don't feel the need to analyse it to death, I just plan to carry on enjoying my interests, be it gaming, TV, reading, walking on the beach, cooking, sex (chance would be a fine thing!) or knitting.

    How does that sound?

    • 394 posts
    January 7, 2016 10:27 AM EST

    May I ask your age Phil? 

    I ask because for much of my life I have been paralysed by extreme social anxiety, linked to want I now know as depression. I hated parties, & my idea of the 7th circle of hell was a crowded supermarket. 'Agoraphobia' literally means' fear of the market-place'.

    I've actually been really struggling with depression recently, which is one of the reasons I haven't been so active here. So, yes: I fit your profile damn you! (joking); I just didn't want to admit it.

    I have found though that as I've aged my social phobias have lessened. Things that have helped along the way were (in approximate chronological order): losing my religious hangups; beer in pubs; the need for 'female company' (aka 'feeling horny'); marriage; having kids. 

    Now although I'm still a loner & somewhat agoraphobic - I need a good reason to get out and about, and if I don't have 1 I won't - I am a thousandfold better. I can hold a conversation with almost anyone, including complete strangers, am quite happy going to pubs for instance alone & making friends, and can even tolerate shopping without getting trolley rage. People now don't believe me when I tell them I am basically anti-social whereas before it was painfully obvious.

    Basically what I am saying is that it gets better with age - or has done with me anyway. Maybe we should meet up for a beer sometime! 

    • 1595 posts
    January 9, 2016 8:25 PM EST

    I'm 33 mate.

    Now although I'm still a loner & somewhat agoraphobic - I need a good reason to get out and about, and if I don't have 1 I won't - I am a thousandfold better. I can hold a conversation with almost anyone, including complete strangers, am quite happy going to pubs for instance alone & making friends, and can even tolerate shopping without getting trolley rage. People now don't believe me when I tell them I am basically anti-social whereas before it was painfully obvious.

    This totally. I can function just as well as a normal human being but it isn't who I am. Once I am indoors and have my days off stretching before me I drop the persona, take off the mask and go out as little as possible. I have no fear of the outdoors, just the people out there.

    I've actually been really struggling with depression recently, which is one of the reasons I haven't been so active here. So, yes: I fit your profile damn you! (joking); I just didn't want to admit it.

    I'm sorry to hear that dude and I hope you're winning the battle.

    We sound quite similar you and I.

    • 394 posts
    January 10, 2016 3:11 AM EST

    @Phil The site expects me to PM you instead of replying, but I came into this discussion late so I want to continue to contribute. 

    We do sound similar mate!

    I do take issue however - and this is the main reason I wanted this to be public - with your use of the word 'normal'. I don't consider you or me to be 'abnormal'. What is 'normal'? I don't believe you or I are abnormal, I think we're just honest. 

    Having problems doesn't make us unusual; in fact quite the opposite. The longer I live (I'm 55 now) the more I realise that everyone has hangups of some kind or another; just that some of us are perhaps more able or willing to hide them.  

    To me there's no 'normal' or 'abnormal', just differences. We're all human & we're all flawed in some way or other, but we're also great too. 

    • 1595 posts
    January 10, 2016 4:41 AM EST

    I do take issue however - and this is the main reason I wanted this to be public - with your use of the word 'normal'. I don't consider you or me to be 'abnormal'. What is 'normal'? I don't believe you or I are abnormal, I think we're just honest. 

    I hear that and I didn't mean any offence  This is what I said much earlier in this topic:

    In this way I don't believe in the word normal and feel everybody is in some way damaged.Besides, a realist is what an optimist calls a pessimist

    In my defence, however, I needed to set a benchmark and establish in the discussion those traits which I thought were a common denominator for those like us who are drawn to this "geek culture." So our normal would be very different than our cousins the jocks but that doesn't mean they are normal either. So while I may not be abnormal I am still far from optimal.

    To me there's no 'normal' or 'abnormal', just differences. We're all human & we're all flawed in some way or other, but we're also great too. 

    I can't tell if you're more or less cynical than I.  

    • 394 posts
    January 10, 2016 9:44 AM EST

    None taken!

    I guess I just don't like labels & stereotyping, being pigeonholed: everyone is an individual and it's too easy & too lazy to make generalisations. For instance I could claim to be both geek & jock as I was a sprinter & a rugby player but have also always been into sci-fi, fantasy, reading & gaming.

    As for being cynical or not, I don't know. "Hope for the best , expect the worst"?

    I guess I'm just more of a doer than an analyst. I'd rather just enjoy what I enjoy rather than trying to figure out why. For want of a better word, "naval-gazing".

    • 66 posts
    January 11, 2016 12:51 AM EST

    Normal is the mask we let people believe is us. Usually to reduce societal conflict.

    • 12 posts
    January 11, 2016 10:49 PM EST
    Hmm.. Where to even begin? I have been gaming since a very young age.. My first actual console was the Nintendo 64 (I'm only 21 haha). We had it pretty tough when I was a kid, but I'll spare you the details. My gaming got me through everything! When this were tough and life served us a cold, hard, shitty hand.. I always knew I could did solace in my gaming world. After several years of gaming on my PS1, I started to take an interest in how things "Worked". And so I bought a broken PlayStation from my friend (My Mum was generous enough to swing me a few dollars of course). After a few weeks of investigating parts and figuring out what everything does, I began the repairs.. Hazah! After a few more weeks, little 12 year old me had repaired his first console! This sparked an idea, I began repairing consoles I bought and selling them to make some decent money. I started working at age 13, and delved deeper into the technological abyss. I built my first gaming computer, which cost me around $2,700. This lead me to building computers for friends for a little more then it cost to build them, making me money in the long run. Fixing and repairing consoles and computers through my Teenage years, I was able to help with rent, car payments, food an the like. I continued gaming the whole time, my imagination grew and grew. In school I achieved an A+ grading for Game Making and the game I made as my final assessment was presented in front of 2,500 people. An academically outstanding achievement apparently.

    Gaming may have gave me cat-like reflexes, the greatest of all imaginations, inspiration and creativity. But most of all, my gaming gave me the drive to better me and my family's life. My Mother runs her own business now, and credits me for her drive of inspiration an determination. I have the IQ of 136, which I credit gaming for. Games have changed my life for the better, that's sure! In more ways then I can explain in one post.. But that's a fair example. :) Gamer for life!
    • 394 posts
    January 12, 2016 2:57 AM EST

    That's brilliant!

    • 394 posts
    January 12, 2016 2:58 AM EST

    Long story short: gaming has probably helped keep me (relatively) sane. 

    • 12 posts
    January 12, 2016 7:48 PM EST
    Agreed! I get kind of agitated without my dose of gaming. Hahaha
    • 9 posts
    January 18, 2016 4:59 AM EST

    I understand that completely, if i didn't have my 360 through my young teen years, I don't know what I would have done, gaming has become my life and I don't care what people think about it