Forums » Elder Scrolls

A Question for all the Heroes of Justice-like Characters.

  • August 1, 2015 1:37 AM EDT

    I've noticed there are only a handful of us players who choose to play evil characters most of the time. The rest seem to enjoy being true hero type characters or staying neutral yet still leaning towards a good path/

    So I ask you, when you look at your Combat Stats and you see the hundreds of humans killed how can you still consider your character good?

    The bandits in that cave didn't go pillaging and raping in Whiterun, at most they killed a traveling merchant and his guard to take their goods. The necromancers also only took the bodies they needed for their experiments, if some lone traveler was walking around at night and wondered close to their lair well.. he/she had it coming. And not all vampires are as crazy as the few master vampires that randomly appear in cities only to be ROFLSTOMPED by guardsmen.

    Hasn't your character killed more people in its few months in Skyrim than Ulfric, Alduin, Miraak, Mannimarco, any dragon, any bandit chief and any dark brotherhood assassin?  The only characters you could argue has killed more people than a level 30+ Dragonborn are the Daedric Princes and Harkon, just because they've lived for hundreds of years.

    • 24 posts
    August 1, 2015 2:12 AM EDT
    Personally I lean towards a bad ass warrior or assassin with a honor code than a good or evil character. If you've got to be a warrior, you might as well hack and slash twoards the people who deserve it most/are the most threat to everyone, even if your just doing it for the sake of the challenge.
    • 41 posts
    August 1, 2015 2:14 AM EDT

    Riddle me this. Why are there more bandits than citizens in Skyrim? And why do bandits have zero self-preservation instincts?

    You can run into a cave filled with more bandits than the population of Whiterun, and those bandits will try to get up and kill you no matter how many times you beat them within an inch of their lives (while a sane person would, y'know, SURRENDER).

    Really, it's all how the game was programed to make it easy to be the conquering superhero, with plenty of mooks to kill. Trying to play a truly good character is made so impossible that it's easier either ignore how many people you're forced to kill or simply be neutral. 

    A good character is usually merciful, and yet you can't spare enemies. Bethesda is a group of sick, twisted people! 

    • 5 posts
    August 1, 2015 2:15 AM EDT

    I personally justify it is as self defense. They are the first to initiate combat after all, if that is their desire then so be it.

    • 485 posts
    August 1, 2015 2:18 AM EDT

    I think the major flaw with your argument is trying to equate good with pacifist...

    • 288 posts
    August 1, 2015 2:47 AM EDT

    ^This.

    • 41 posts
    August 1, 2015 2:54 AM EDT

    Very true. 

    • 98 posts
    August 1, 2015 10:33 AM EDT

    It's very simple really. Because most of these people you've mentioned would not hesitate to kill innocent people for any of their goals. And Breaker has a good point. If you're going by in-game statistics, there's way more evil/hostile people in the game than there is good people. Curse is right as well, because I think all morally good characters who are not pacifists know that action needs to be taken for the greater good. 

    • 12 posts
    August 1, 2015 11:14 AM EDT

    Well then... Let's just hope you don't go anywhere alone for a long, long time.

    If I need an organ I know where to look! 

  • August 1, 2015 1:59 PM EDT

    The point is the number of kills are still there, the character is still a merciless killer. What's ironic is if you play as an assassin you can spare 99% of the enemies and just kill their leader and get out of there. A paladin like character would have to massacre the entire cave population to get to the Bandit Chief that has a bounty on their head.

    And with Illusion, Emperor's Voice or Dismay you can spare enemies. Calm and fear effects last long enough for you to get out of most enemies aggro zone. Of course just decapitating them is easier but the option is still there, the mechanics to make a character be truly good are there yet very few people use them. You don't need to be a pacifist in-game to be truly good, you just need to be Adept at Illusion and a vampire hater of course since you need 100 Illusion to pacify them.

    • 288 posts
    August 1, 2015 3:12 PM EDT

    Merciless killer doesn't mean evil, that's what people have been trying to tell you all topic long.

    The motivation for killing is what makes a character good or evil. Does he kill for pesonal gain or for a noble cause?

    • 1217 posts
    August 1, 2015 3:16 PM EDT

    Pretty much this. If there was a way to disable enemies without killing them, I'm sure a lot of players would include that in their playstyle, particularly for hero characters. But there's not. If a bandit sees you, he will attack you, regardless of the burning Legendary Dragon corpse at your feet. Your character defending their own life can hardly be construed as malicious.

    • 288 posts
    August 1, 2015 3:23 PM EDT

    That is also true. In Quest for Glory, one of my favourite games, for example, becoming a Paladin required showing mercy to your enemies on several occasions. In fact, this is the reason I've never played Skyrim as a Paladin, despite the excellent build by Ponty - because I feel that a Paladin must show mercy, and there is no option for that; because I feel that a Paladin should make peace between the Empire and the Stormcloaks and not choose sides, and there is no option for that (besides a temporary truce); because I feel that a Paladin should have an option to destroy the Dark Brotherhood without killing an elderly woman, in fact a true Paladin would find a way to resolve the problems in the Oprhanage without killing, he'd scold Arentino for his murderous thoughts and set him on the right path and he'd subdue and arrest the DB assasins without killing them.

    • 12 posts
    August 1, 2015 3:37 PM EDT

    If you are killing people for a good cause...wouldn't you kill them all? I mean are you going to let the others keep killing and stealing?

    • 288 posts
    August 1, 2015 3:39 PM EDT

    No, but you don't need to kill everyone for that. You just need to kill the ones that have already stolen and killed and let the others fear what will happen to them if they kill or steal.

    • 12 posts
    August 1, 2015 4:37 PM EDT

    Well I would imagine that is all bandits. They all will talk about it if you listen long enough.

    I should have focused on that in my first post...oops

    • 288 posts
    August 1, 2015 4:43 PM EDT

    All bandits, yes.

    A character devoted to killing bandits and robbers is risking his own life and well being for the benefit of other (presumably innocent) people, so he's good.

    • 485 posts
    August 1, 2015 5:22 PM EDT

    The bandits in that cave didn't go pillaging and raping in Whiterun, at most they killed a traveling merchant and his guard to take their goods. The necromancers also only took the bodies they needed for their experiments, if some lone traveler was walking around at night and wondered close to their lair well.. he/she had it coming. And not all vampires are as crazy as the few master vampires that randomly appear in cities only to be ROFLSTOMPED by guardsmen.

    Here's another critical flaw in your argument. You make an at best weak attempt to play down the crimes of enemies within the game. Killing one traveler along the road is still one innocent traveler to many. Taking one body for strange necromatic experiments is one body too many. 

    • 1583 posts
    August 1, 2015 7:52 PM EDT

    there are only a handful of us players who choose to play evil characters most of the time. The rest seem to enjoy being true hero type characters or staying neutral yet still leaning towards a good path/

    Seriously? Not on this site mate. Everyone loves the Dark Brotherhood here, mate. The polls confirmed it/

    So I ask you, when you look at your Combat Stats and you see the hundreds of humans killed how can you still consider your character good?

    Lol, I long since gave up looking at that stat page. I used to get hung up over it but realised it was buggy as fly covered shit. I mean in this game you can shoot a deer and have an assault logged down on your stats.

    Hasn't your character killed more people in its few months in Skyrim than Ulfric, Alduin, Miraak, Mannimarco, any dragon, any bandit chief and any dark brotherhood assassin?

    The Dovahkiin's excuse is that it was his crazy dragon soul which made him do these things.

    • 77 posts
    August 3, 2015 12:20 PM EDT

    While there are some holes in your argument, I think you make a good point in your premise.  It's really hard to feel like the typical good guy when you've racked up hundreds of man/mer deaths. 

    As you can see this is something many have thought about at one time or another, and justified as self defense or capital punishment.

    This has given me some inspiration to try playing as a pacifist who refuses to take the life of another, even if they are trying to kill me.  Time to go create Vash the Stampede in Skyrim.

    • 485 posts
    August 3, 2015 12:28 PM EDT
    Another flaw in your opening statement. If you looked at polls and read through builds youd find that alot of people play morally evil characters, and at best morally ambiguous ones.

    Again the big flaw in your argument is equating pacifism with moral goodness. So what happens to a morally good character who's forced into a situation where he must defend himself? What about a situation where he must defend someone incapable of defending themselves? Does he lay down his arms and accept death? Does he allow the defenseless to die?
    • 485 posts
    August 3, 2015 12:38 PM EDT
    I think some of get most interesting characters to play are those who do evil believing it is for the greater good.
    • 394 posts
    August 3, 2015 12:39 PM EDT

    A truly righteous character would wait for the red dots to attack first; they always do. In the case of bandits he is just there to arrest them and confiscate their stolen goods. It's not his fault they won't come quietly! I've never done that but it's a good roleplay idea

    • 485 posts
    August 3, 2015 12:44 PM EDT
    What are you on about?
    • 394 posts
    August 3, 2015 12:49 PM EDT

    The initial premise here is a huge generalisation and probably inaccurate but, as Ben suggests, that may be intentional. I for instance currently have 2 main characters, 1 who considers himself good, and the other who is amoral. Previous characters have also been similarly mixed