Forums » General Gaming

Gaming and Strategy Guides

    • 1217 posts
    July 21, 2015 3:13 PM EDT

    In the early days of gaming, there were few ways of unlocking all the secrets of a game. Usually, it was just a matter of trial and error, with successes passed on by word of mouth. If you were particularly lucky, you could find walkthroughs through "Bulletin Board Services", which wasn't quite the internet, but getting there(thanks, Overhate!). Later, companies like Nintendo started offering help-lines gamers could call for tips on getting through tricky levels. The advent of strategy guides changed things. A time came when you could buy a game on the day it came out...along with every trick, every shortcut and every secret. Paired with the internet, no hidden location, easter egg or power up stays unknown for long.

    So how do you Tamriel Vault gamers feel about the use of strategy guides and wikis to "master" a game? Legitimate recourse when all else fails? Crutch? Valuable supplement?

    In what moments of your gaming experience have you turned to a wiki or strategy guide for the answer?

    Edit: I should add that this discussion was prompted by coming across this pre-order.

    • 288 posts
    July 21, 2015 3:17 PM EDT

    Hm, walkthroughs or as we called them "solutions" were around since the late 80's, especially for adventure games.

    The only problem was there was no internet back then so you had to have a friend who has the "solution" or has connection to various BBS (Buletin Board Services), which frequently provided such.

    • 1217 posts
    July 21, 2015 3:23 PM EDT

    Added 

    • 288 posts
    July 21, 2015 3:26 PM EDT

    Once the net came up, the first attempt at something close to a "game wiki" I've seen was this thing: https://notendur.hi.is//~eybjorn/krondor/krondor.html regarding the game "Betrayal at Krondor". Keep in mind this is a singular effort by just one man, which, especially in the 90's is something spectacular.

    • 1217 posts
    July 21, 2015 3:31 PM EDT

    Okay, now I gotta ask...did you go look for this for the purpose of this conversation, or is it something you used and have held onto since then? I'd say both are pretty spectacular!

    • 288 posts
    July 22, 2015 12:26 AM EDT

    Borom, as I've posted before BaK is one of my favourite games of the 90's and overall too. So this is something that I and a friend of mine discovered back in the late 90's when internet got to our country on a more widespread basis. So, yes, I did use that resource back in time and now your topic made me remember it.

    • 1217 posts
    July 22, 2015 12:28 AM EDT

    Good stuff  My oldest gaming guide is the pair of strategy guides I got in the Starcraft Battlechest back in middle school. I still open them up from time to time :')

    • 700 posts
    July 22, 2015 12:42 AM EDT

    I think using a strategy guide is perfectly legitimate no matter the situation.  Same with wiki's.  Personally, I turned to the Skyrim wiki only weeks after getting Skyrim, looking for tips on how to grind smithing.  The fact is, I don't have to time anymore to figure out everything on my own.  It's why I didn't enjoy The Witcher 2 and why I never finished Dark Souls.  It would have taken too long to figure everything out on my own and would have taken too much time to read about everything I needed to know.  Skyrim was different since it came at an opportune time.  But strategy guides are pretty much irrelevant thanks to wikis and forums like this.  Still, the more people know, the more they can share with others, and then more people will know more about the game.  It's a good thing.   

    • 1217 posts
    July 22, 2015 12:46 AM EDT

    I agree, they're ultimately a boon to the community, and places like this are a testament to the fact that there'll still be more to discover, probably for years after the game comes out, guide or no  guide.

    • 168 posts
    July 22, 2015 1:19 AM EDT

    I probably never would have been able to complete Dragon Warrior VII without the guide, even with the guide it took me about 90 hours to complete the game all the way to the credits, and there's still more side quests to do! Most of the time however, I mainly read the guide for the equipment and character classes sections. My copy of that guide actually has some pages disconnected from the binding because of over use, heh.

    Then there's Final Fantasy VIII. Great guide, I only have one problem. I can't beat the game! I've done all side quests, trained all the guardian force abilities, even kept as low levels as possible. The final boss is simply impossible to defeat because the boss decides my party for me (in addition to wiping my team during the second phase of the fight with an attack that does more than the max health the heroes can have), I can't beat it without grinding for magic more, and I'm not good at the Triple Triad minigame (despite liking the card minigame). Guess what, the strategy guide doesn't give a strategy for the final boss, only tells you to use the cheese strategy used for the overpowered optional boss. Still a well put together and informative guide, wouldn't have been able to get as far as I did without a guide.

    I also have the Final Fantasy IX guide, and that one is, well... hardly helpful. Granted, FFIX isn't necessarily a hard game, but the guide's quality is abysmal. Stuck in an area with tough random battles? The guide's bestiary doesn't list elemental/status resistances or weaknesses. Trouble stealing something from a boss? The guide lists what bosses have for stealing, but doesn't tell you how low the chance is. One particular item I remember, a weapon upgrade for the summoner, has a 1/250 chance of being stolen from the boss. The guide does not tell you this, nor does it tell the reader about the other 1/250 chance steals. A lot of things were cut out of the FFIX guide, instead giving you a code you're supposed to enter in a website to get the full information. At that point, why even print a guide?

    Guides aren't necessary to "master" the game, at most all I use them for is equipment and character skills lists, sometimes to solve puzzles that give me too much trouble, or I just use them as reading material if I really like the game. The Skyrim strategy guide, for instance, I got when the game was still young, but now I think its quest walkthroughs are fairly worthless, and the strategy guide is inferior to UESP now too, since the guide does not explain possible bugs (and also gives horrible character classes). For rpgs (especially the complex ones, like DW7 or FF8) they are incredibly helpful. But I don't think they're necessary for easier/simpler games (like Lego games, GTA, Minecraft, generally games that have safety nets or are hard to screw up badly).

    • 12 posts
    July 22, 2015 10:16 AM EDT

    I think strategy guides are fine, but can be overused. I am guilty myself of looking up how to solve puzzles, or how to find gear, and then finding myself decked out in powerful gear early on. Sometimes that can be fun as well.

    Without them though, I would not have as much fun with the game! There would be plenty of items and areas that I wouldn't have seen or obtained. I would have overlooked them. 

    Overall they are fine by me, everyone can benefit, but sometimes it is more fun to solve things yourself.

    A game I play heavily has it's own secrets, which is surprising as it is an fps. Battlefield 4 has hidden easter eggs, maps, password, brail, Morse code, and even secret rooms inside it. Without a community effort they would have never been found, a reward was even given for the extensive process of getting up the elevator into the room. Then using a password to take down a barrier...all after searching for hours for a dogtag (competing with others). The final reward was a bow, not the best in an fps, but it really showed how a community is almost necessary in some cases.

    • 1217 posts
    July 22, 2015 10:29 AM EDT

    Getting equipment, character (particularly follower) stats and such is definitely a handy use for guides. I've often used the Skyrim wiki to see if there's a faster way than what I have in mind to get certain pieces of gear.

    • 1217 posts
    July 22, 2015 10:29 AM EDT

    Without them though, I would not have as much fun with the game! There would be plenty of items and areas that I wouldn't have seen or obtained. I would have overlooked them.

    In that regard, they're great for following up a playthrough and planning a second or third run to get at things you might have missed.

  • July 22, 2015 10:38 AM EDT

    I have mixed feelings towards guides, I get why people use them but they can absolutely ruin a game for you. I'm gonna use myself as an example.  

    Final Fantasy X-2 was one of my favorite games on ps2, this year I finally got around to playing the HD version and I started having a blast, exploring and noticing things I didn't notice when I played it on ps2 because I was too young (10 was much more straightforward so there wasn't much to miss)

    Anyways at about chapter 2 I decided to restart and use a 100% guide because I wanted to see the secret ending without having to get on youtube. And the stupid guide completely ruined something which is imo one of the funnest games ever made, I messed up somewhere and my data said 61% when it should say 62%, meaning I wont get to 100% on the first playthrough. I got so mad I closed the game and I haven't played it again -_-

    • 1217 posts
    July 22, 2015 10:47 AM EDT

    Yeah, that does suck. I'm mostly concerned about spoilers myself, with hardcopy game guides. That sort of thing is easier to avoid on a wiki, where you can search just for the specific elements you need.

    • 394 posts
    July 22, 2015 11:02 AM EDT

    I used to subscribe to a group that sent out walkthroughs and solutions and a newslettter on floppy disks! 

    I tend to only refer to walkthroughs only if I get stuck, as a last resort. On the other hand if I feel like I'm missing out on something I might dip in to confirm or deny. Too much reliance on guides spoils the game.Pre-interent I used to keep loads of notes, in files, using graph paper, & then spreadsheets. I still do a little bit but  with Wikis and apps I don't need to so much. With huge games like Skyrim you need some sort of resource. I bought a Skyrim guidebook but it was disappointing and most of its contents I later found for free online. 

    "Young people of today, they don't know how good they have it, grumble, grumble" *hobbles away holding my back*

    • 1483 posts
    July 22, 2015 11:05 AM EDT

    Tbh, pretty much all the guides I've seen contained wrong information. I don't see the point in paying for a guide that is wrong. Especially since the correct info can be easily found on the net. That's like buying incomplete Wasteland Survival Guide 

    As for using wikis to master the game... Depends on a game 

    • 1217 posts
    July 22, 2015 11:08 AM EDT

    So what parts do you use to get acquainted Ben? Walkthroughs of the early levels? Character creation tips?

    • 773 posts
    July 22, 2015 11:10 AM EDT

    I must admit I'm a bit of sucker for buying the guides - partly because, like Ben, I like the early read through to get acquainted with the game system, character creation, basic crafting etc. Also they are a fun read for ...errr... the 'smallest room in the house', or propped up in bed late at night.

    I'll probably get the Fallout 4 Guide. Even though everything can be found on the internet, its never quite as accessible or simple as reading the guide somehow 

    I do remember spending a fortune ringing some sort of premium phone line to acquire the solution to particularly fiendish puzzle in The Bards Tale 2 lol. 

    Also who remembers when you used to buy computer magazines to get solutions and walkthroughs? Back in the 1980s it was 'Crash' to get all the 'solutions' for games on the Sinclair Spectrum. Those were the days... 

    • 700 posts
    July 22, 2015 11:14 AM EDT

    Also they are a fun read for ...errr... the 'smallest room in the house', or propped up in bed late at night.

    So much this.  The two strategy guides I actually have have been read over many times in these two situations.  They're just a good read.  Maps, tips, lore, and all that.  It's like having a physical copy of a game's entire wiki and it's a nice novelty.  Probably not worth the $20+ they cost, but that's up to the individual.  

    • 394 posts
    July 22, 2015 11:15 AM EDT

    I like the Prima guides and used to always get them for big games. There's less need for them now and also I'm more of a tightwad. I also got suspicious ascgames used to come with big actual manuals and they became smaller, then on disc, and sometimes non-existent: it was almost like you were forced to shell out just to figure out how to play. A guide should be for quest walkthroughs, extra secret stuff and big databases - you shouldn't have to buy one just to learn how to play the game. I once returned a Civ game as it didn't have a physical manual. 

    • 773 posts
    July 22, 2015 11:22 AM EDT

    I've got The Witcher 3 Guide in the bathroom at the moment 

    I bet you all wanted to know that lol

    • 1217 posts
    July 22, 2015 11:28 AM EDT
    Wiki info gets called into question and found to be inaccurate quite often, too, but that's definitely a valid point. The wiki is free, and can be corrected. In counter to that, though, the vast majority of what's in a hardcover guide is accurate, and accessible long before complete wiki information is available.
    • 394 posts
    July 22, 2015 11:38 AM EDT

    I'm eating! :O

    • 394 posts
    July 22, 2015 11:40 AM EDT

    I used to love ST Format then PC Format mags :)