Forums » Elder Scrolls

Are TES Classics dead?

    • 649 posts
    May 7, 2015 12:40 PM EDT

    I know this is strange question, but I have a good reason for that. While I'm no wordsmith and my average english sometimes can take someone on completely different path than I meant, I'm here to spread the truth here. I might get crucified, but the truth needs be out there, and here, everywhere.

    You ever heard about TES Classics group here on this blog? Well, if you haven't, you know about it now. It is group similar to Character Building Group, but with the focus on previous TES games. I know there are people who played those games, people which thinks that those games are much better than the Skyrim. People who were introduced to Tamriel thanks to those games. I also know that there are people who only heard about those games and never played them. There are all kinds of people.

    You know, few months back, Prisoner (TES Classics host) came with an idea to live up the group. Good idea. His Revival Event was excelent idea. What was it about? About making builds where you focus on things that are not in Skyrim. All the things that were removed to make more simple game. And Prisoner's calling was almost unanswered, except for few people - myself included.

    Then came the deadline and it seems I'm the only one who posted something. I feel kinda depressed about it, also about that I hold the highest number of builds posted in that group. But I'm not here to speak about me and my crappy builds. I'm here to tell you about first TES Classics posted build, among other things. Lozhar's Ronin sits on the throne of TES Classics as the First, unmatched in his skill with blade and honor. Then there is The Marsh Monk created by our Queen of Argonia, Tae-Rai. Badass Argonian who beats the crap out of people and monsters with his bare hands!

    See, I'm rambling here complete nonsense, but I have to tell you one thing: I love The Elder Scrolls. That's what brought me here, to this site. To place, where you can share this love with people who share my love for Tamriel. And while this is mainly Skyrim Blog - as name implies - older games deserve their attention too! I hear from people here and there, that they are still playing Oblivion, Morrowind and even Daggerfall. Brothers and Sisters, Man and Mer, weird creatures with tails, fur and scales,  in the name of the Elder Scrolls, share!

    Elder Scrolls games are full of almost infinite options, wonders and so much fun, and there are so many unexplored mechanics these games offer. They are waiting just to be digged up, like all the Big Names did here, in Skyrim.

    I know these are old games, but after all these years this Blog was out on the internet, wasn't Skyrim already plundered of it's secrets, glitches and exploits? Well, Morrowind and Oblivion weren't. And if they were, it is most likely on UESP. But wouldn't it be wonderful if these secrets would be revealed through awesome characters? I believe they should.

    So, here we are, at the end of my post full of nostalgic nonsense. I, Karver the Nostalgic, hereby dare you to BUILD something. Even while the Revival Event almost reached it's deadline, I dare you to pick up your mouses, keybords, consoles or whatever, and go out there to build something new, unexplored.  I say, children, go out there and contribute to the Good Fight. AWOOOO. Oh, wait, that's the other game.

    Or don't give a crap. Or tell me your reasons, excuses, whatever why you can't share your love of The Elder Scrolls in other games. This is a discussion after all.

    Now you can crucify me as a heretic I admit I am...

    • 1589 posts
    May 7, 2015 3:30 PM EDT

    It's funny, Karves, but before there was a TES Classics Group I was a supporter of the idea but since it's been here I have barely contributed beyond a few words of encouragement. That could be because I wasn't a host back then and had a less defined role.

    I get what you're saying about unexplored Oblivion builds, but I don't know if it's true. Back in the day we were all exploiting the enchanting and spellmaking systems to create 100% Chameleon or ridiculously fast speed fortifications. Remember trying to create a fortify acrobatics spell to allow you to jump from one end of Cyrodiil to the other like in that video?

    So here's my answer: There is more to the classics than builds and it'll take a miracle to drag people away from Skyrim to play TES III or TES IV. So forget building events. Instead, focus on anecdotal stuff all the oldies will want to discuss, like how cool Hannibal Traven was or what faction had the best questline. Articles and stuff like that, much like the lore group. Even T&T on how to create that spell, anything but builds.

    • 649 posts
    May 7, 2015 3:43 PM EDT

    I get your meaning, Phil. But I have one question. Well, maybe two. You think that the Oblivion doesn't hold any secrets? I'm not speaking about glitches and exploits right now, but in terms of gameplay. Aren't you at least little bit interested what kind of new ways how to play these game can people come up with?

    To your specific answer: What purpose then is there in keeping the TES Classics group, if you would encourage people to talk only about mechanics, but not the builds? Your point seems to be, that we actually really don't need this group to be here, when we can discuss mechanics somewhere else.

    • 179 posts
    May 7, 2015 3:49 PM EDT

    It's funny; for all the praise that a lot of people give Morrowind on the site, no one wants to seem to create any sort of content (builds, roleplaying guides, etc.) for it.

    • 649 posts
    May 7, 2015 3:52 PM EDT

    Hm. You pretty much nailed it, Albino.

    I should have writed just this one sentence instead of that nostalgic crap...

    • 773 posts
    May 7, 2015 3:59 PM EDT

    I must admit it surprises me that Elder Scrolls Classics hasn't really taken off and become more active. I was a keen supporter before it started, and pretty much talked the other Admins into giving it a shot.

    It's like Albino says, loads of people seem to have a nostalgic feeling for Morrowind (more so than Oblivion) but we just can't seem to get anyone making content or even taking part in threads to any great extent.

    If anyone has ideas as to how we can raise the profile of the older ES games, then please share...

    • 649 posts
    May 7, 2015 4:15 PM EDT

    Well, I'm more about yelling than saying something constructive, but I personaly think that Events in TES Classics are not so bad idea. There were few people who were interested in joining it, but it was started in the same "moment" as CB Event, so those people didn't have time to work on "second class" builds.

    Also, I'm not entirely sure if people even know about the group, or they aren't just interested in participating. I noticed that there is a lot of nostalgia here, people here and there say that Oblivion or Morrowind are better, and other stuff. But it usually ends there. It reminds of talk about commies in my country...

    Anyway, I can't think about something to make people want to put effort into something that isn't on their top list. Let's be honest to ourselves, those games are old. Even Skyrim is slowly getting old right. They are not old for me, or you, Paul, but for others they are.

    How about making some polls about Classics? Only thing that comes to my mind, sorry...

    • 739 posts
    May 7, 2015 4:25 PM EDT

    Morrowind and Oblivion are the only games I can say I've had experience with...

    Morrowind was a great game...

    Oblivion......................was shite!!! **IMO**

    And that's because I was spoilt by Morrowind, which contained everything a hardcore RPG fan could ever want. By the time I picked up Oblivion it just felt like the 'arcade mode' of Morrowind... not enough depth/no ash/everything just felt simplified so a 10 year old could join in...

    But on to the topic at hand.

    You can't really 'build' in the previous two games, sure you can select major/minor skills but they had no perk system to make those deliberate/calculated choices in character development. You add in the better graphics and gameplay that Skyrim provides and I can see why nobody has gravitated to this project.

    Then there's the fact that I could go 'balls deep' on a great character for Morrowind and post it but 50% of the people here haven't even played the game and the other 50% wouldn't really give a rats ass............I'd simply get no feedback or interaction with others............and that would leave me feeling glum.

    While that's certainly a shame it doesn't mean I don't love ES3, I cant speak more highly of it (especially this week for some reason).

    It would take a very strong and persistant leader to push this project into the limelight here on the blog, but there would be extreme glory if they pulled it off.


    • 649 posts
    May 7, 2015 4:37 PM EDT

    Good point, Mason. You´ve pretty much described how it looks now. No feedback.

    Aren´t you considering doing one Morrowind build? Just asking, your name means something here, so people might think: "Oh shit, Mason is making Morrowind builds. That takes some serious balls. Let´s see that."

    Or more propable option: "Oh shit, Mason is making Morrowind builds. That guy completely lost it..."

    While Morrowind was that complicated to create some unique builds there, I still believe that some uniquenes can be created in Oblivion. Call me naive.

    • 179 posts
    May 7, 2015 4:37 PM EDT

    Agreed on the point regarding character builds, but there's still other kinds of content that can be made for Morrowind. Considering how there's plenty of people on this site who like, even love the game, I think that if someone started making some good and appropriate content for it then it would have a good chance of gathering a lot of interest and feedback. If not, then I guess that would just go to show that those who like Morrowind only want to wax nostalgic about it and nothing more.

    • 739 posts
    May 7, 2015 4:51 PM EDT

    "Oh shit, Mason is making Morrowind builds. That guy completely lost it..."

    That would be the most probable outcome mate...


    • 739 posts
    May 7, 2015 5:03 PM EDT

    "I guess that would just go to show that those who like Morrowind only want to wax nostalgic about it and nothing more."

    Yeah to be honest that's about where I stand Albino. Morrowind will likely always be the game I compare every other RPG to. Skyrim came very close, and it improved on a ton of stuff don't get me wrong, but there's something very edgy about Morrowind. They captured something extremely special with that game...

    Sometimes I think that these huge improvements in gameplay may actually distract from the lore/stories/environment in the ES series. It's a strange one...

    I'd love someone to come along and create a strong Morrowind culture here on the blog. But like I said, they would have to be very dedicated to making things happen before I'd start to post. And with ES6 slowly looming......the chances of such a hero emerging are growing very slim.

    • 1589 posts
    May 7, 2015 5:09 PM EDT

    Your point seems to be, that we actually really don't need this group to be here, when we can discuss mechanics somewhere else.

    No, that's the opposite of what I'm saying. Empirical evidence suggests that TES Classic Build Events aren't bringing people in so I'm suggesting a change of tactic. Drum up excitement by delving into those mechanics, sell the idea to people that they can create the world's most powerful spell or cast a charm on a horse which will make it run as fast as the wind. A TES Oblivion topic discussing the political decision of the Mages Guild to outlaw Necromancy would be interesting and might make people pay more attention other than "wow, assassins!" 

    Aren't you at least little bit interested what kind of new ways how to play these game can people come up with?

    I guess I am to some degree but it's not my primary interest. Reminiscing is where I get my kicks  The levelling systems in Morrowind and Oblivion really are pants.

    • 203 posts
    May 7, 2015 5:16 PM EDT

    My first question would be to know if the classics group accepts other content than character builds. I ask this because I just don't know shit about Morrowind, I started playing it only recently and have been enjoying it so far, however as I still don't think I have a decent enough understanding of how certain skills work, how the stats interconnect or where I could find some decent stuff, creating builds for Morrowind (and Oblivion for that matter, even though I know the game a lot better, started out with it you know) is not going to work for me.

    However, I have been having lots, and I mean lots of fun trying to create useful/whacky/original spells by combining not always that useful effects. A thing I could see for example, if only to draw newbies like me, would be to organize something like a huge spelltome containing every entertaining custom spell in existance.

    It's just an idea. And so far, from what I've seen it seemed to me that there are almost only character builds around the classics page, and sadly that is just not something I can contribute to, I know Skyrim, have a nicely insane and unhealthy amount of hours put into it that neither Morrowind or Oblivion can rival with, when they will, I will probably be capable of creating some builds, until then I will need to create other content if I want to create any content for the classics group.

    • 1463 posts
    May 7, 2015 5:21 PM EDT

    Well my reasoning for hiding in the Skyrim Character Building Group is simple and a little shameful (especially for someone who loves both Morrowind and Oblivion) Skyrim is just easier to build in. Morrowind and Oblivion while great games are simply not designed or really that easy to Build Characters on  the same level as Skyrim, a game where there are thousands of choices in the skills alone. 

    Morrowind and Oblivion don't lend themselves to  Character Building that well and considering I've been playing Morrowind for over 10 years and Oblivion for 9 now, I really am just kind of bored of playing through the same things over and over again... I want to try Skywind and maybe that will lend itself better to Character Builds, who knows but that might be an interesting release for the Classics Group (as long as the game will install easily this time).

    • 1589 posts
    May 7, 2015 5:27 PM EDT

    Ok ideas: People want to "wax nostalgic" the let them wax nostalgic. Give them a outlet for it with featured discussions about why the Thieves Guild Questline in TES IV was the best questline ever, or why Morrowind's environment and culture were so spot on. Find out what resonated with people.

    Mechanics and guides. I've heard that a good way of getting round the lack of a fast travel system in Morrowind other than the Silt Striders/Intervention spells is to make levitation spells. Because the game has a habit of sending you to the other side of the map and make you hopelessly lost, a levitation spell is ideal. But in my playthrough my Imperial Knight never learned how and had to trudge hundreds of miles in full plate.

    • 649 posts
    May 8, 2015 2:15 AM EDT

    I like your way of thinking Teineeva. Book of awesome spells would be cool.

    And to answer your question about other content, there was that possibility few months back, like around Christmas. It was quite alive that group, we were talking about crap most of the time, but we were talking. Then for some reason, all discussions were relocated somewhere and only builds stayed there.

    So I think, that we should recreate that discussions again.

    • 649 posts
    May 8, 2015 2:17 AM EDT

    I get it, DB. Everyone says that the system is not perfect for building, But it´s not impossible. I get your meaning about being bored to play throught the same things over and over again. But don´t you get that feel in Skyrim too?

    • 95 posts
    May 8, 2015 2:24 AM EDT

    Oblivion and Morrowind I am sure has many secrets still unexplored and I think if people actually took the time to make character build that feels like a comfortable style for them, something AMAZING would come through.

    An example would be this:

    I came across this while mixing up a Shield Mage with Heavy Armor.

    Also, for Skyrim:

    I still think their could be many more secrets for Skyrim and Oblivion. I have yet to play Morrowind.

    I will definitely keep searching for secrets though! I'm always on the hunt! 

    • 130 posts
    May 8, 2015 2:26 AM EDT

    As host of the Classics group, I second this notion. I believe the reason these discussions were removed was that we have a CB group for Skyrim, while other things are covered elsewhere. I think the admins decided they would do that with Classics also.

    • 649 posts
    May 8, 2015 2:29 AM EDT

    You think it would be possible to backtrack those discussions? There were some good guides there.

    • 130 posts
    May 8, 2015 2:34 AM EDT

    I apologise I've not been online for a few days. I posted a status about this a while ago, actually. Even if I was able to access the Blog as normal, however, I really don't think it can be expected of me to be online all the time. As far as my opinions on all this go I am, of course, all in favour of more builds in my group. There's still a week or so before the event finishes by the way, so if anyone is looking to submit, I invite them to do so. Even if the only build to come out of the event is yours though, I think it's worth it. It is a wonderful build (check it out, everyone!), and I will write my thoughts on it in full when I get more time.

    Edit: The comment this was posted in response to has just been deleted, but for some reason this didn't get deleted with it. I see no reason to do so, and will leave it up. For context, Karver was inquiring as to why I had not responded to this post yet.

    • 649 posts
    May 8, 2015 2:38 AM EDT

    Great, Bloodbane. Looking forward to see what you can come up with.

    • 95 posts
    May 8, 2015 2:54 AM EDT

    I heavily disagree with the statement DB made above: "...Oblivion while great games are simply not designed or really that easy to Build Characters on  the same level as Skyrim, a game where there are thousands of choices in the skills alone..."

    IMO: Oblivion has a MUCH better system for character building: To have attributes that govern your skills and determine how effective things may be handled.

    the combination of Skills + Attributes = Weapon/Spell damage, along with many other effects!

    Vampirism even plays an important role as well: It acts as a bit of a "Hardcore" mode, forcing you to find ways to survive in daylight if need be and find ways to feed.

    Every single piece of the Character Creation determines how you would be able to survive in Oblivion and it offers a large amount of diversity and synergy if one chooses to make their own Custom Classes.

    • 179 posts
    May 8, 2015 3:07 AM EDT

    Attributes don't offer nearly as much depth compared to the perk system in Skyrim. All the other things you mentioned (Skills, Weapon/Spell Damage, Vampirism) also show up in Skyrim.