Forums » Elder Scrolls

• Gyrobot

  

  • 10 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 1:00 AM EST

  Aside from the VoS, the Dawnguard never occurred to me as bad guys like Volkihar vampires were. They didn't keep human cattle, most of the Dawnguard are genuine good guys save the leader who's hatred of vampires is justified given the fact they are the byproduct of the king of rape and the only thing more evil than Sithis himself. It kind of felt unsatisfying
  
  What could there have been done to make the Dawnguard a more morally questionable faction so it doesn't become a black and white struggle. I mean with Knights of The Nine you are the reincarnate of Pelinal Whitestrake who we know have a less than stellar reputation. So Dawnguard could have benefitted from being a secret pact between Meridia and Arkay as an excuse to wage war against Molag Bal's servants, hence the secrecy of the group as if people had known Meridia had given Arkay's followers knowledge of defeating Molag Bal there will be blood on the streets  

• Matt Walker

  

  • 89 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 1:06 AM EST

  Go look up the Heretic build by Mason.

• Bokult Shur'Tugal

  

  • 27 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 1:38 AM EST

  Well if you think about it, the Dawnguard expects you to kill all vampires you come across. Isran threatened to kill Serana multiple times, and all of them never consider thinking that vampires sometimes don't have a choice. It's not like all vampires know of Falion just by talking to an innkeeper. So in that aspect the Dawnguard is defected?

• Nicholas

  

  • 12 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 2:09 AM EST

  If the Dawguard had some sort of affiliation with the Silver-Hand, or at least expressed a hatred for werewolves, people may have been less open-armed to the vampire-hunting guild. I think maybe a mission where you must hunt some werewolves would have been fun, and make you second guess the Dawguard a bit, ever since Skyrim introduced the beloved Companions. 

• Eddie Stuckey

  

  • 61 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 3:08 AM EST

  Well they do murder a race of beings that are just trying to survive? How are Vampires evil? You wouldn't call a beat evil if it tried to eat you, you'd call it nature. Well that's exactly what it is. You have to stop seeing humans and such as the centre of the universe, not everything revolves around us.

• Tae-Rai

  

  • 622 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 3:14 AM EST

  They kidnap people to feed on, they attack cities and they want to block out the sun. That's not nature, it's evil.
• Ramah

  

  • 47 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 3:16 AM EST

  If they'd been more murderous then they could have been morally questionable, like of they murdered a whole innocent family that didn't even fight back just because they were vampires, also if they started a witch hunt and started testing random people and going through villages searching for vampires. And of they had a prison full of vampires being tortured... Then I would think twice before joining them, I've never joined the volikhar because none of my characters have been truly evil, some have been morally questionable (assassins, thiefs) but none have been evil enough to join the volikhar
• Pelinal Whitestrake

  

  • 59 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 4:37 AM EST

  They are morally questionable, they don't try to help the vampires by finding a cure, they want to kill them all. It just goes with their beliefs, and I understand that.

  @Ramah: Mostly, I join the Volkihar with characters that are looking for power and knowledge. Maybe you could try one of these characters to play the Volkihar questline (Looking for power is quite a good excuse for your characters to do morally questionable things).

• Seth Clough

  

  • 39 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 7:30 AM EST

  I don't get it. You're asking why a faction of fantasy vampire hunters was morally on the "Lawful Good" end of the spectrum? Isn't that normal? someone explain to me why this is a viable question, please. I don't see any problems with the way bethesda made the Dawnguard...

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 8:24 AM EST

  I think he means they are too good... If not, then this is weird...
• Mytheos

  

  • 32 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 10:19 AM EST

  I understand his point. Skyrim among many other games from the series have always had a lot of characters and factions that were questionably good or questionably evil. Like stormcloaks
• RuneRed

  

  • 856 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 10:23 AM EST

  I agree with Seth here. Everything doesn't have to be morally ambiguous; I find it refreshing to have a choice between an obvious 'good' faction and an obvious 'evil' faction.

• CR Stokes

  

  • 104 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 10:26 AM EST

  I didn't find Isran to be wholly lawful nor good. Add in Isran's shaky past and the fact his tactics/decisions were not widely accepted and I don't view him as a "lawfully good" aligned character.
  
  If I'm not mistaken at least one of the Dawnguard's members joined after they had people close to them murdered. That is not a "good" reason and could easily be viewed as "evil" motivation.
• Joseph Cobb

  

  • 8 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 11:07 AM EST

  Perhaps chaotic neutral and ordered neutral is applicable?

  The Volkihar aren't doing it for fun, they are doing it to survive. And the Dawnguard's "kill all vampires" mentality does little to help those who did not want to become vampires in the first place.

• NeroKitty

  

  • 661 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 11:51 AM EST

  You never heard about their dark history? I'd imagine that around the time of ESO, or maybe a couple hundred years from then, the Dawnguard were the worst. Didn't they become vampires themselves?

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 12:00 PM EST

  ... What are you talking about? At no point have hey ever said any of this, or that they are that old... Only that it was an old organization.
• NeroKitty

  

  • 661 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 12:04 PM EST

  Check the dialogue you'll see. Im to busy to care at the moment.

• RuneRed

  

  • 856 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 12:13 PM EST

  I've heard rumors, but it's only rumors (and conflicting ones at that); I don't automatically assume rumors are true. There are basically two rumors about why they stopped hunting vampires (1) they became vampire themselves and (2) they disbanded due to a lack of need (no vampire threat = no respect/need for vampire hunters. I personally think the latter is the most logical (although, no doubt, some of their members likely fell to the vampires and became vampires themselves).

  In any event, the dawn guard faction from the 2nd era has little to do with the dawn guard faction of the 4th era.

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 12:18 PM EST

  Those are conflicting rumors... Not stated facts...
• J.D. Primrose

  

  • 127 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 12:46 PM EST

  Blocking out the sun is just one person. And kidnapping a handful of people to feed from so that feeding is regulated is just common sense.  If anything, that's the best thing they're doing for their survival.  Sure, attacks on cities aren't exactly good, but those are to send a message - by which I mean a middle finger - to the people who are indiscriminately killing them purely on the grounds of their lifestyle.

• RuneRed

  

  • 856 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 12:59 PM EST

  on the grounds of their lifestyle ....

  I usually don't join the dawn guard until after the attacks. But in any event, kidnapping, enslaving, and killing people can all be put under the umbrella of 'evil'. It's not an animal/survival thing (for one, they can survive without feeding on the blood of people). And two, animals cannot reason; the vampires can reason, but rather choose to kill. (And even animals that get a taste for humans, must be put down). On the other hand it would be wrong to kill any vampires that did not choose this evil path (the court wizard in Solitude is a prime example of a vampire surviving within the law).

• NeroKitty

  

  • 661 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 1:07 PM EST

  Just from what I remember hearing they sounded like bad guys either way. So I think that today's Dawnguard would be more like a redemption for past errors.

  On a different note aren't most Vampires Hunters chaotic neutral? In Skyrim it certainly feels that way. Especially when you have to commit crimes just to kill a vampire. The people Isran enlists for help don't exactly come off as good guy types anyhow. Isran himself is in it for the blood. So we can count him out of the pictures for good guys. It could be me, but I can't see them as the heroes saving the day after a righteous, and difficult crusade.

• NeroKitty

  

  • 661 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 1:09 PM EST

  Is she really? How do we know she isn't seducing the Jarl of Solitude or bedding Firebeard to gain on her goals? For all we know she is the reason there is a war in Skyrim!

  The conspiracies man!

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 1:11 PM EST

  That vampire seduction power bro...
• David Hatch

  

  • 8 posts
   

  February 4, 2014 1:21 PM EST

  I agree that vampires cannot be classed as evil, as it is in their nature to feed on human blood.

  But then by the same token killing them cannot be evil either, as taking your bear analogy and turning it on it's head, a bear is not evil for trying to eat you, but nor is a hunter considered evil when he kills a bear.