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On Elder Scrolls Races and Real Cultures

    • 4 posts
    December 22, 2013 11:49 PM EST

    Through watching Elder Scrolls lore, reading up on the lore, as well as being from an Asian background, studying cultural anthropology in a Western environment as well as World History, both at a Freshman College level, I compiled just my thoughts on Elder Scrollls races and their real life counterparts. Please write what you think or if I got something wrong (which I undoubtably have one place or another), correct me!

    Disclaimer/Abstract: I know that some have already tackled this before and some have tacked it with a lot of racism in mind. So I'd like to preface that the concept of "skin color" will not be touched on in this analysis, neither will stereotypes be addressed unless they are so prevalent that they influence artistic vision of these races. Therefore, I won't assign one race to one group unless it's that obvious due to the diversity of cultures. I will however, generalize to some extent (Yes, I am aware that "Sub-Saharan African" is not a singular culture, but it is similar enough to make generalized assumptions before going deeper). This will also cover Akavari races to do a "Process of elmination" type analysis later on, sort of. It will NOT cover Aldmeris, the Sload, Yokudans, or any race that isn't on Tamriel/extinct. The Akavir are an exception because 1. I love the Akavir 2. There is enough lore to make assumptions 3. There is enough lore that I KNOW to make assumptions.

    Men (Humans)

    Okay, so the men are probably the easiest to do, since many are incredibly easy to distinguish by their names or basic culture. From most obvious to least obvious.

    Nords are Scandinavian: Easy to prove. "Nordic" refers to people from these regions. Though horned helmets were not used by actual Vikings, it is the common misconception to draw Vikings with horned helmets. But going deeper, Thralls in Skyrim are your minions and thralls in Viking society are slaves/peasants of the lowest class, doing biddings for their masters. Jarls are landowners in Viking society, and you can assume that the Jarls also are landowners of their Hold and are the "feudal lord" of that Hold.

    Bretons are...Bretons: The Breton people are from Britanny in real world France. Furthermore, looking at the history of the Bretons and their squabbling kingdoms are paralleled with the Roman written records in the Iron Age in which there were several tribes during the time of the Roman Empire, as well as the uniting of the Kingdoms of Wayrest, Daggerfall and Orsinium are paralleled with the 6th century Breton settlements in Wales, Gaul, and France, as well as the three kingdoms of Bretons in the early Middle Ages. 

    Imperials are Romans: A bit less obvious than the first two but Imperial is the English version of the Latin word Impera or variations of that, such as, "Divide et impera" or Divide and Conquer. Cyrodiil is seen as a very fertile land. Rome and Italy are also very fertile regions, and though a stretch and not nearly as significant, the Niben Bay can be seen somewaht as the Mediterranian Sea. The Roman Empire stretched all across the Mediterranian, Europe, and some parts of Northern Africa, incorporating conquered peoples as an Empire would. The Imperial Empire of Tiber Septim spread across Tamriel, incorporating conquered peoples as an Empire would.

    Redguards are Arabs and Sub-Saharan: The Arabic relationship is easy to prove, due to Skyrim's Redguard garments, very similar to the typical Arabic garbs from romanticized European folktales. A stronger parallel would be the Alik'r and the Hashashins. The Hashashins were basically the Assassins from Assassin's Creed 1, except minor details removed or added. During the 11th century, the Hashashins posed a great threat to the Sunni authority (Crowns in Redguard terms) in Persia and Syria. Now, what are the Alik'r doing in Skyrim? Hunting down Saadia, a Crown and a dissident from Hammerfell speaking out against the Thalmor(,(highlight to reveal spoiler) just like the eventual result of Hashashin actions in Persia and Syria, this action results in the end of the Hashashin. The Sub-Saharan part comes from the names only. Saadia's real name, Iman, is an Ethiopian name. Many other names also have Sub-Saharan origins or are commonplace in these places.

    Akaviri

    Now the reason I'm NOT doing the Elves next is to disprove or at least put to rest something that I've always seen. The parallel between Elves and the Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc. That, and I'm not actually sure what Elves are 100%.

    Tsaesci are Japanese: Putting to rest the Altmer=Japanese thing. The Tsaesci equipment are seen with the Blades. Just looking at the Dai-Katanas and Katanas scream Japan, just out of history as well as association. However, this goes further as Skyrim states the Tsaesci laid down their blades at the Dragonborn. Asian cultures tend to revere dragons as a symbol of peace, royalty, and power rather than evil as European cultures do. But finally, even further, Tsaesci do not fight with shields or armor, just their swords. Simple thing here. While Japanese samurai did have their nifty armor and shields, training garbs as well as many sword fights between foot soldiers did not involve much armor due to the costs of equipping all soldiers with hunks of metal on their body and off-hand.

    Ka'Po'Tun are Chinese: Tigers have some symbolism with Chinese culture in medicine, war, and such. But look at the relations with other races. Tsaesci are the Ka'Po'Tun's worst enemy? The Japanese invaded Manchuria in World War 2, invaded China many times before in history, the Ming Dynasty in fact had to push the Japanese back during the invasion of the Korean peninsula in the 1500s. And according to Mysterious Akavir, "They are now a very great empire, stronger than Tsaesci (though not at sea)." Just like the Chinese. The Japanese excelled at the sea but not on land compared to the Chinese Empires. Biggest nail in the coffin though, is Tosh Raka. Divine dragon. Again, Asian dragon theme but also the fact that Qin Shi-Huang dreamed of eternal life and ordered his men to retrieve an herb that could grant eternal life. In the Elder Scrolls, this is possible.

    Tang-Mo are Korean: All Akaviri nations tried to enslave the Tang-Mo. In Korean history, this is true at one point or another, from the Japanese invasions of the Korean peninsula to the Chinese ordering beautiful women be sent to China on a cyclical basis. The Tang-Mo can muster an army but does not seem to like to do so, but did successfully defend their lands. The Song Dynasty attempted to invade Korea but failed several times. The Japanese attempted to invade Korea and most times, failed. And the alliance between the Tang-Mo and Ka'Po'Tun relate to the Ming Dynasty and Joseon Korea in the 1500s against the Japanese invaders, as well as the continued relationship between Korea and China throughout history.

    Elves

    Whew, this was tough. Especially in regards to the Altmer, which eventually, I had to cop out, as with the Orcs. Surprisingly, the Dunmer is the easiest.

    Dunmer are Jewish/Israeli/Semites: The parallels are a lot fuzzier than with the men but I have two points to support this. Firstly is the current state of the Dunmer in the Fourth Era. The Dunmer had to leave their home, which can be seen as the Babylonian Exile, and live in segregated housing in Windhelm. Jews did in fact have to live in segregated neighborhoods long before the Nazis in Europe. Second is their reverance for the Nerevarine as the MESSIAH. Whether religious or not, Semite culture revolves around Jesus and the Bible to some extent, and the Nerevarine is the messiah. The second coming of the Nerevarine in the game Morrowind is like Jesus' coming. The Tribunal Temple can be seen as the Pharasees, a religious order that, if the Bible is to be believed, Jesus did endorse to some extent, "Be holier than the Pharasees." In Dunmer history, the Neravarine did in fact work together with who would evenutally become the Tribunal, Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil.

    Wood Elves are Native Americans: Even fuzzier than the Dunmer. The only parallels are the concepts of living. Native Americans were far less industrial than their European counterparts and the concept of onwership was far more "communistic," with ownership of land and resources being a lot more communal, if not nonexistent. Valenwood reflects this with lack of industry but, just like Native Americans before the European arrival, far more populated than meets the eye with the Green Pact, giving this coexisting of nature and mortal theme. Of course, the biggest parallel I can see is the post-Camoran dynasty Valenwood, a population distrusting of central authority. The Iroquois Federation did not have a central authority but still managed to hold the tribes together to some extent, though whether the federation was distrusting or not, probably not but the concept and the practice match up.

    Altmer are...I have no idea: PLEASE PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME. Until then, I will keep yelling that they are Fantasy Elves and the Thalmor are a political group that talked to Adolf Hitler one time.

    Orcs are Goths (Visigoths): This is so for a few reasons. The Visigoths lived in Gaul among other places and were nomadic. Now Orcs in Skyrim are somewhat nomadic. They do not have an established nation inside Skyrim or in any other place except in Orsinium but they do have a stronghold and given its construction, it is assumed that they do move around. Now, Visigoths were also raiders in part (see Sacking of Rome), much like Orc Marauders who attacked the Temple of Vaermina. But the most compelling thing in my opinion is that the Visigoths and the Goths are most prevalent in similar places to the Bretons. Now where is Orsinium in Tamriel? In High Rock, next to the BRETONS. 

    Beast Races

    Khajiit are Egyptian/Arabs: Why? For one, the Egyptian portion comes from the fact that Khajiit live in desert environments (Khaj meaning desert in their language) as well as cats being very sacred in Egyptian religion, to the point of losing a war because of them. The Arabic portions come from their consumption of Moon Sugar. Though very flimsy and I would contend that the Khajiit are mostly Egyptian, the Hashashins name also comes somewhat from the fact that Hashish is a product of hemp, a drug. Hashashin can mean "Intoxicated Assassin" and Khajiit do make good assassins in game, and yes, Moon Sugar is intoxicating. 

    Argonians are Meso-Americans/African: Avoiding the obvious elephant in the room, we'll save that later, the Roman Empire is at its waning period if we contend that the Septim Empire is the Roman Empire. By this time, as well as throughout history, the Roman Empire never conquered Africa beyond the outer rim of Egypt and the Middle East. Just like that, the "rim" of Black Marsh was conquered by Tiber Septim but the heart of Black Marsh was relatively untouched. That's where the African portion comes in. The Meso-American portion comes in from the environment and dangers of the actual area. Hundreds, if not thousands died when building the Panama Canal, not just from basic construction hazards but also due to the 200 foot spiders and fighter jet long mosquitos (can you guess that I hate bugs?). Just as such, Black Marsh is nearly impregnable. Further is their physique. Quetzalcoatl, the god of the Aztecs, was a feathered SNAKE. A reptile, just like the Argonians. And of course, there's that whole slave trade thing. Meso-Americans were enslaved by the Spanish and the Africans were enslaved by the Americans. Argonians were enslaved by the Dunmer.

    So, thoughts? Comments? Calling me racist? Praising the ground I walk on? Criticizing the fact that I know no history? Anything in between?

    Credits

    Grubbi - Giving me the connection for Orcs

    • 69 posts
    December 22, 2013 11:52 PM EST

    I like it.

    • 69 posts
    December 22, 2013 11:58 PM EST

    Its very interesting your views on the races and real cultures. Perhaps the Orcs would be like the Huns or Mongols, Perhaps the goths or visigoths, going around and being nomadic?

    • 4 posts
    December 23, 2013 12:00 AM EST

    Ah, very interesting. I'm not very keen on the "Barbarians" as the Romans would call them but I will definitely add to this if it seems plausible.

    • 149 posts
    December 23, 2013 1:19 AM EST

    Ha, this is awesome. I figured the races and cultures of Tamriel had to have been inspired by real world examples. While these inferences may not be completely definitive, they certainly lend credence to the notion. Well done!

    • 91 posts
    December 23, 2013 1:28 AM EST

    Pretty damn solid work here. I like it.

    I will say that the Orcs, at least those in the Strongholds, seem more like Huns than Goths. I mean at least in their aesthetics.

    I'm also not completely sure I'd compare the Dunmer to the Jewish people. I mean I see the similarities, but there seem to be a lot of differences too. Like major ones.

    Altmer I'd say are pretty much just fantasy elves. Can't really think of any real world counterpart that matches perfectly. You could say they are inspired by the ancient Greeks. They're artistic and very focused on intellectual pursuits like the Greeks. They also inspired the Empire in language, architecture and many other areas just like the Greeks inspired the Romans.

    • 152 posts
    December 23, 2013 1:58 AM EST

    That Greek=Altmer connection makes sense.

    There is your reasons of how the Greeks influenced the Romans(Empire), but also some of their military lines up. The Altmer are reputed to have a strong navy, which the Greeks had for quite some time.

    I really feel as if they are a mixture of Roman/Italians (no offence intended Italians) and Greeks, with Greek culture and Roman history (First and Second Aldmeri Dominion represents Roman Republic and Empire respectivly, Thalmor represent Facists, and the Third Aldmeri Dominion represents WW 2 Italy)

    • 4 posts
    December 23, 2013 2:45 AM EST

    Oh yes, of course in regards to the Dunmer. The point of this wasn't to say, "Ah ha! Bethesda completely based all of the races on real life races," but just showing the parallels between real life cultures and the Elder Scrolls. Just to probe the races to see if there's a striking similarity Bethesda may have derived from real life cultures.

    I would agree with you on the Greeks except for the idea that the Greeks inspired the Romans. I was always under the impression that the Aldmer and the Alyeid had inspired the Imperials, as opposed to the Altmer. Of course, there are several parallels. I will definitely consider adding this, perhaps, and make the roster complete.

    • 91 posts
    December 23, 2013 2:48 AM EST

    I believe an in-game book actually says that the common language of the Empire is that of the Altmer. Could be wrong of course.

    Anyway glad you liked the idea. Just thought I'd throw it out there. :3

    • 10 posts
    December 23, 2013 3:44 PM EST

    More acurrately I would compare them to the Ottomans and Byzantines. The whole idea of forcing their nearby provinces to join under their banner to cripple the Italia...Imperials.

    The Dunmer's would also have some sense of Feudal Japan since the Houses are sort of like the major clans in Japan who handles most of the ruling in Japan.

    • 158 posts
    December 23, 2013 3:47 PM EST

    Interesting.  I'll have to read it again to digest, but one preliminary comment:  Arabic is a language, Arab is the adjective for peoples.

    • 641 posts
    December 23, 2013 6:02 PM EST

    Reachmen are Picts 

    • 63 posts
    December 27, 2013 12:30 AM EST
    The khajiits in skyrim seem to represent the Roma (Gypsies) more than anything.
    • 158 posts
    December 27, 2013 2:56 PM EST

    ^ ah, yes, agreed

    • 7 posts
    May 10, 2014 1:34 AM EDT

    I think Khajiits represent more of India and Pakistan. Elsweyr is half jungle,half desert->Pakistan is the desert part,India is the jungle part.Also,the different sub-races of the Khajiits are the castes of India.And,according to lore,Khajiit armor and weapons also look like the ones used by people of the said region.The traveling caravans equal to the gipsies,who traveled from India to several parts of Europe.

    • 622 posts
    May 13, 2014 8:54 PM EDT
    I never really looked at the races like this but it's certainly an interesting view. I would love to say the Kamal are represented by another Asian culture but there just isn't nough to go on
    • 4 posts
    May 13, 2014 10:20 PM EDT

    The Ice Demons? They most likely represent some other civilization in East Asia, most likely ones that are now lost to time. Most of Akavir that we know of is so shrouded in mystery that it is very indicative of what Europeans thought Asia was like before the Open Door policies. I mean, even when the British traded with China, many still had romanticized or speculative lore on East Asia. Similarly, since we're looking at TES through a Tamrielic viewpoint, we really have no idea what Akavir is like, much less any race that isn't explicitly mentioned. And that's why I maintain we must have a DLC where Akaviri invaders come again.

  • May 13, 2014 10:51 PM EDT

    I would say the Kamal actually relate to the mythological Oni, more than an actual kingdom/civilization. Though I know very little history so...

  • May 13, 2014 10:52 PM EDT

    The Altmer remind me of the ancient Greeks with their philosophy (magic) and feelings of racial divinity/superiority.

    • 856 posts
    May 14, 2014 12:49 AM EDT

    The Khajiit had always made me think of India too.

    The Khajiit are known for their martial arts; India has one of the oldest martial arts system in the world.

    • 661 posts
    May 14, 2014 8:14 AM EDT
    Pretty cool, but Native Americans really dont have much of a connection to Bosmeri culture. Sure they are nomadic, they are cool archers, and they tend to be in a universal agreement with the world around them. But I just see them more as South Americans because of the canabalism. (Other reasons I cant remember because Im too tired to care).

    Altmer.... Yeah Fantasy Elves big time.
    • 1 posts
    September 9, 2014 10:46 AM EDT

    As for Argonians - their architecture and lifestyle are more reminiscent of Bengali/Indonesian/Burmese/Vietnamese cultures- with all that marshes and round mudhouses.

    Betnikh has a very Russian nature and landscape, although the architecture is very fantasy there

    Altmeri are very Greek

    Bosmer have just a little touch of Irishness to me. As dunmers have a touch of finns and some aboriginal people of Kamchatka (with all those volcanoes).

    Khajit are VERY Indian, and Romani (those two are culturally and anthropologically  related, though).

  • June 7, 2015 11:59 PM EDT
    I would say bosmer are celts, because of their strict religion based on nature. Orcs are native Americans in culture, but with Mongolian weapons and armor. Too many people say orcs are completely Mongolian because of their weapons and armor.
    • 295 posts
    June 8, 2015 4:12 AM EDT

    Since I was not the one who officially  necro'ed this one, I'll put in my two cents for Altmer. 

    Two cultures 

    Pre-Thalmor - Ancient China

    Post-Thalmor - Modern China with a smidge of Nazi Germany thrown in for good measure. 

    Just my two cents on the matter. 

  • June 14, 2015 7:48 PM EDT
    I really do hate how most people stick to the same thing. First,Altmer=Nazi Germans, or British, maybe Chinese
    Argonian=Africans with a south american armor type
    Breton=French, or Britons
    Nord=Scandinavian
    Redguard=Arabic
    Imperial=Roman
    Dunmer=hard to pinpoint, never played morrowind
    Bosmer=Picts or Maori, maybe Celts
    Orcs=Mongolian armor and weapons, plus being great warriors, with a Native American social structure
    Don't know those ancient ones though