Forums » Elder Scrolls

The Aldmeri Dominion vs The Empire

    • 29 posts
    December 14, 2013 11:37 PM EST

    So I was just reading a lot about the Great War and how the Thalmor called it "The First War with the Empire". Obviously the Dominion is planning another war so... who would win?

    I personally believe the Thalmor would win. Both sides have not yet recovered from the Great War, but Cyrodiil is further weakened with the loss of Hammerfell and Skyrim.

    Hammerfell was abandoned by the Empire, and the Redguards are a proud race. I don't think they would help the Empire. They would only join if the Thalmor invaded again and they couldn't repel the attack.

    Skyrim was a huge a huge help to the Empire in the Great War, providing them with a large army. However, mustering an army of that size at present would be impossible. The civil war has turned Skyrim's people against each other. The Thalmor have a strong presence in the province as well.

    Meanwhile, Elswyer and Valenwood don't appear to have any problems, and Alinor remains strong as always.

    Just my thoughts, but I am a proud supporter  of the Dominion so it's pretty one sided for me.

    How is it for you?

  • December 14, 2013 11:50 PM EST

    Well, right now, they're in a cold war. I don't think the next war will come for a while because the AD underestimated the Empire the last time. Personally, I think the Empire will out preform them economically, and the Dominion wont be able to produce as much. Economic Powerhaus in Cyrodiil right now. All that breadbasket land. All that timber, all them mines. I don't think the AD has the same resources as the Empire. 

    But that's just me. In the long run, humanity will breed like rabbits and outproduce the elves in terms of manpower. 

    • 29 posts
    December 15, 2013 1:03 AM EST

    The thing is that Cyrodiil cannot fight by itself, and that is looking to be the case for the next war. Who will ally with them that can provide a decent army?

    Meanwhile the Dominion is a strong alliance, one not easily broken. If the Imperials decided to start the war, it would be a disaster.

    The Thalmor can repel any assault launched upon Alinor, as they have the best navy. Valenwood would be extremely difficult to take, as 1 Bosmer would equal 10 Imperials (the Imperials would be unable to move their forces around the trees and the Bosmer would be able to launch long range strikes, slip away and then hit them again) and Elsywer is a desert inhabited by skooma loving tigers, who can endure the heat while the Imperials can't.

    Most likely the Thalmor will start the war again and this time they won't underestimate the Imperials. They already have the advantage with the signing of the White-Gold Concordat. They can slowly move their forces into Cyrodiil and Skyrim, saying they are looking for Talos worshippers while they are really planning for war.

    But I have to agree with you. Those humans breed like vermin and will probably have more manpower... but not skill.

  • Tim
    • 89 posts
    December 15, 2013 3:40 AM EST

    Your arguments seem to revolve around this:

    You are a fan of the Dominion so naturally you assume they will win. You claim the Dominion's superior skill will allow them to win, yet both the Empire and the Dominion fought to a stand still. Clearly there is an even match between the skill of both sides, even if the humans need to rely a bit more on numbers.

    I think the stalemate will last for a very long time with neither side coming out on top. But I cannot deny the manpower argument, physically a high elf just isn't that superior to a human. I think the superior intellect and skill in magic can only go so far. 

    The great skill and general superiority of the Altmer will be the only thing that maintains the stalemate in the face of the rapid growth of humanity. The elves will drive them back countless times, it is impossible to say who will come out on top. Dissension amongst the humans may be the saving grace of the Thalmor, but at the same time, dissension amongst within the Dominion could be just as deadly. The elves are playing the waiting game, because their best chance is to outlive the humans that are alive now and strike later once the newer generations become complacent.

    I honestly don't care who wins and both sides seem so capable that it would only take a small push to give one the edge it needs. The key weapon of the Elves is time, but in that time they may not be able to guarantee that the humans won't band together.

    One final note that is an out of lore argument, I think Bethesda would never end the Empire, it's always been an important part of the TES series

  • December 15, 2013 9:58 AM EST

    Aren't the colovians the best disciplined soldiers? Remind me again.

  • December 15, 2013 10:00 AM EST

    I would assume that time is mans weapon. More time to breed.

    • 15 posts
    December 15, 2013 10:29 AM EST

    A war is determined by a lot of factors. Essentially it will be decided along the southern border of Cyrodill, yes the province is an economical powerhouse but lets get things into perspective: 1) the Great War was fought mostly in Cyrodill and Hammerfell meaning that civilian casualties and the destruction of infrastructures and other things was mostly felt in those regions it will take some time to recover, they have to rebuild their forces and their economy also 2) Not one of the territories of the Dominion was afected by the war, what is more you think the White Gold concordat didn't have in one of its articles economic retributions and other elements regarding limitations concerning trade and so on? 3) Positioning, Elsywher is of such importance in this conflict but many people overlook this, from the lands held by the Khajit they can choke the Empire literally by taking the narrow portion of land where the sea meets the niben, effectively cutting the umbilical cord Cyrodill uses for its navy and commerce. Yes they can still trade by land and other ports but it basically cripples the Empire's ability to move and get resources of any kind. 4) Black Marsh could be persuaded to invade other portions of Tamriel creating a second front for the Empire. 5) The only province still intact is high rock, although due to its internal politics could be used as an Altmeri buffer zone 6) Politically speaking you think Skyrim's intent on separatism will die with Ulfric? this problem can have huge political repercussions in the future independently of who wins 7) The dunmer are now in control of the militaristic Redoran House who is trying to rebuilld their ravished land, how much would it take for the Dominion to aid or pact with Mournhold and secure an alliance. I haven't even talked about the entry into the war of the Kajit, Bosmer, Maormer and even mercenaries of Akavir.

    Basically the Dominion has a strong position, easily obtainable strategic goals of great importance with few input of resources, diplomatically stronger, the Empire has made too many enemies in its history and could be exploited, Altmer dominate the seas, Skyrim/Hamerfell/Cyrodill ravaged by war.

    Make your own conclusions but considering that politically the Dominion is also dominating... well the Empire has a lot less options of putting the Thalmor against the wall and creating a situation that will benefit them.   

  • December 15, 2013 10:52 AM EST

    Why do you think cryodiil hasn't taken into account their weaknesses? Let's be real here. If a drought or something hit elsewyre, the empire is in a better position to help the people. Half the province is desert. It'd be bad all around. Elswyrs position in the dominion is precarious. A simple discovered letter incriminating the dominion for anything, and that province goes to the empire. Or, make a civil war happen. The dominions skyrim of you will. Blackmarsh is isolationist, and with the dunmer looking at them, niether side will do anything to make them have a two front war.

    Its been 30 years since the last war. Their infrastructure, and manpower are back, and with an eye on the Dominion, they're producing with purpose. 

    The dominiom has very little areas to produce food. Valenwood can't grow food. Half of elsewyr is dessert, and summers set is an island. Any supply lines will have a long way to go. 

    You ever seen a blow fish? They puff up and appear bigger than they actually are. Hopw to solve their political dominance? Publicly tear up the concordat, and kill every thalmor operative in the Empire. The empire letting them walk around is only a delay strategy.

  • Mr.
    • 763 posts
    December 15, 2013 10:57 AM EST

    3) The Gold Coast.

    7) The Dunmer don't "control" the Houses, the Houses "control" the Dunmer, and currently the head of the Great Houses are the Redoran. Oh, and now, Morrowind's capital is Blacklight.

    And the Altmer/Dunmer relationship ain't that good, and although Morrowind is now more capable of defending their homeland, they know that a war has to be avoided. You see, the Dunmer aren't Nords, who apparently have a need to fight during extremely inconvenient times.

  • December 15, 2013 11:01 AM EST

    *cough cough* redguards

  • Mr.
    • 763 posts
    December 15, 2013 11:02 AM EST

    Oh, yeah. Sorry. Redguards and Nords.

    • 966 posts
    December 15, 2013 11:07 AM EST

    Aye, there's nothing on Tamriel that could defeat a Colovian legion face to face. Maybe something on Akavir, but nothing in Tamriel.

  • December 15, 2013 11:11 AM EST

    And everyone in cyrodiil has been getting babys. Baby booms

    • 490 posts
    December 15, 2013 11:14 AM EST

    Diabeetus can.

    • 966 posts
    December 15, 2013 11:27 AM EST

  • December 15, 2013 11:42 AM EST

    Cure disease potion. Duh

  • December 15, 2013 11:45 AM EST

    The only way the dominion might win is of they strike now. The longer they wait, the more economic, manpower, and with those, more political power the empire has. 

    Man will win in the long run in this conflict.

    • 966 posts
    December 15, 2013 11:56 AM EST

    They can't attack now either. The majority of their army was destroyed in the Great war.

  • December 15, 2013 12:10 PM EST

    I'm saying that now is their best chance because their chances of winning are only going to get worse.

    • 29 posts
    December 15, 2013 1:08 PM EST

    What can I say? I'm a huge fan of the Thalmor, one of the only people who actually likes them so I can't really afford to see their weaknesses.

    The Thalmor were in complete control of the war, the only reason why they lost is because of their inability to adapt to change (and the fact that they never sent out scouts to find out what the Emperor was doing).

    The Thalmor already have momentum with the signing of the treaty, and the Empire can't exactly execute the Thalmor in their province without alerting the Dominion at home.

    Yes my argument is one-sided but I just have a lot of faith in the Dominion's strength.

    • 966 posts
    December 15, 2013 1:10 PM EST

    Misplaced faith.

    Complete control of the war? If they were in complete control they wouldn't have been utterly annihilated in Hammfell and they wouldn't have lost their main invasion army to 4-5 legions, most of wich were at half strength.

  • December 15, 2013 1:20 PM EST

    That's true, because men reproduce faster than mer. It's just like playing Protoss vs Zerg in Starcraft, when you're Protoss you have to seize the chance when you have it, otherwise Zerg will catch back up and win the game

    • 29 posts
    December 15, 2013 1:40 PM EST

    I mean't in control up to that point.

    They weren't annihilated in Hammerfell, and they still took out a ton of the Empire's attack force as well. The thing is that the White-Gold Tower is a very hard place to defend. And the Thalmor weren't expecting an attack, they were expecting the Emperor to surrender. It was the Thalmor's inability to adapt and plan for different alternatives if the Emperor didn't surrender. 

    • 29 posts
    December 15, 2013 1:43 PM EST

    I have to agree with that. The Empire has always been around, always will be. Likewise, the Dominion will stick around, but the Thalmor might not.

    If the Empire was stronger and had an Emperor who was strong and didn't love war and death, my opinion about the Empire would be different.

    • 966 posts
    December 15, 2013 1:47 PM EST

    Hard place to defend? The city is surrounded by water, there's a single bridge. It's a very easy place to defend.

    Yes they were annihilated in Hammerfell. Utterly beaten by the suddenly united Redguards.

    If the Emperor was allowed to what he did, the Dominion wasn't in control. Just because they had the Imperial Isle doesn't mean they had the real upper hand yet.