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My 2 Cents - Beware of opinions and an Elven Sympathiser!!!

    • 25 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:39 PM EST

    Yep 600 years worth of experiences is bit more than what a typical Nord has.

  • December 11, 2013 11:46 PM EST

    A Nord goes through life faster. They learn life lessons faster. You can go a thousand years and not experience what another person experiences in one. The altmer need to let the Tiber wars go. The sins of the father should not pass to the son.   

    • 25 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:49 PM EST

    Because their ancestors totally were subjugated by the Numedium, and subjugated by the short lived races of men.... oh wait.... You can't compare their ancestors to their descendants. It's a very different world in 4E 201 than in was in 3E 433.

    • 25 posts
    December 11, 2013 11:53 PM EST

    That's just the problem. To the Nords and Imperials it is just them paying for the sins of their ancestors. To the Altmer it really isn't like that. They don't think of time in the same way. Like I said there are some Altmer that remember the surrender to Tiber Septim. This is still a part of their lives. It's not history yet. Not to the Altmer. Only when it is can they put it past them.

  • December 11, 2013 11:57 PM EST

    So, that's justification to bully people? It's basically Tiber Septim all over again. The situation is TOTALLY hypocritical. I thought the Altmer were more mature than that. I guess I was wrong. 

    • 91 posts
    December 12, 2013 12:25 AM EST

    My great grandmother was 100% Northern Cheyenne. My ancestors WERE invaded and had their families taken from them and their lives destroyed. I however didn't live through those things and I know that none of the people who did it to my ancestors are alive today. Why should I go and treat some poor guy like shit and deny him the right to do what he wants simply because his great grandpa killed my great uncle or something?

    The same can be said of the Aldmeri Dominion. Even if elves live to 1000 (which I was apparently wrong about, but I still believe is up for debate) few if any would be able to recall the events of Talos' invasion. Any that were alive would have to have been very young during said events. The Aldmeri Dominion doing what their doing out of pure revenge wouldn't be justified AT ALL considering few if any of them would remember it and none of the Nords alive today would have even lived it.

    It's a petty, childish grudge on the part of the Dominion. One I don't believe the Dominion's leaders even care about. In my honest opinion the Dominion leaders are probably just using the past as a way to rally others to their cause of total domination, just as Ulfric is doing with the Nords. Difference is Ulfric just wants Skyrim back for his people whereas the Dominion leaders want all of Tamriel just like you say Talos did.

    • 91 posts
    December 12, 2013 12:28 AM EST

    I stand corrected it seems. Still think this is debatable, but an elf living to 1000 could be possible I guess. That being said a 1000 year old elf would probably be like a 110 year old human. They'd most certainly be frail and probably senile. I doubt any that lived to see Talos' attack would even remember it let alone be able to have a grudge about it.

    • 34 posts
    December 12, 2013 12:47 AM EST

    Hmmm. Perhaps the elves that did live through that told the stories to the younger elves, and then those elves grew up with those stories and the hatred of their elders, and then passed those on, and then they kinda grew up in that hate culture and went from there. Perhaps there are some who legitimately believe they are doing right by what happened, perhaps there are some who are just using that as an excuse. We won't really know unless there was a way to talk to every single elf in the Dominion. 

    We're all working off speculation and the bits of lore that we're given. Maybe none of us are right at all. Who knows.

  • Tom
    • 624 posts
    December 12, 2013 2:34 AM EST

    I'm at a loss as to why there can't simply be freedom of religion. Dunmer get to worship Daedra. Why can't the High Elves denounce Talos, but let anyone who wants to worship him, simply do so?

    I've read and understand both sides of this conflict, but every time I'm left wondering why they can't just let it go. If Talos is not a divine, shouldn't that be enough for the High Elves to know they are right and let the barbarians continue worshipping at the altar of their war god?

     

    • 91 posts
    December 12, 2013 2:56 AM EST

    A rational, mature and "superior" being would know that being "right" was enough. However, the Aldmeri Dominion aren't rational or mature despite their opinion of themselves being superior to man. That being said though man isn't any better in the world of Tamriel. Honestly I wish they'd just kill each other so the Argonians could take over. ARGONIAN MASTER RACE FTW!!!

    DISCLAIMER: I realize that the Argonians have done their fair share of crap in lore and are just as terrible. The end of the previous post is meant as sarcasm and intended for comedic reasons only... sorta... not really... Argonians rule.

    • 91 posts
    December 12, 2013 4:05 PM EST

    One of the biggest arguments I've seen in favor of the Aldmeri Dominion is that they are in fact better than men. Why? Because they have longer lifespans and therefore more knowledge. Now let me ask you this, when you play through the game you are given the task of killing Dragons or Dovah. Those Dovah once ruled the world because they were "the rightful rulers" thanks to their "divine blood". They believed that man and mer were both beneath them and that they were the superior beings because of their immortality and knowledge. Sound familiar? By all accounts the Dovah were right too. They were better than man or mer. They had knowledge, power, etc. that was unmatched and is still unmatched save for the Dovahkiin him/herself.

    Now that being said I don't see anyone defending the Dovah's perspective that "Hey those mortals rebelled against us and took our land away! They're nothing but murdering scum with no respect for authority! They must be hungry for power because they are trying to take ours!".

    Fact is people can argue all they want that the Stormcloaks are bad for fighting the Dominion and their Imperial puppets. That they're breaking the law, yadda yadda yadda. However, when the men who fought the Dovah for freedom started killing them that was against the law too. Do you think the men back in those days were accepting of any Dovah that strolled into town? Hell no, they'd have lopped its head off (or died trying) without even letting him speak his peace. Doesn't matter if the Dovah had good intentions the ancient people of Tamriel would have been racist as hell to all Dovah. Same applies to the Stormcloaks and their racism. It's not that they just hate everyone, it's that they don't have the luxury of putting their guard down. They're out numbered, out gunned and out classed in a world that wants them dead. If I were in that situation you can be damn sure I'd kill an Argonian before letting him live next door to me and my family. But Ulfric doesn't even do that, he lets them actually live in his city (well outside, but they still have shelter)!

    I know none of this was really in your post, but I thought I'd add this point of view to the argument.

    Now onto your argument. You say it's wrong to worship Talos. Why? Because he's a murderer? George Washington was a "murderer" by that logic. William Wallace was a "murderer". In fact every hero in history was a murderer if you think of things the way you have. Fact is there is a very thin line between "hero" and "murderer" and history shows that the distinction between the two is subject to who is asked. To the elves Talos may be a monster, but to the men he saved and brought peace and prosperity to he is a saint. Why shouldn't those men be allowed to worship him after all he did for them? Because the elves' jimmies get rustled because of actions that aren't even properly documented? You got two different sides to the Talos argument that have VASTLY different views of him, and when two sides are that far apart on something it usually means that neither of them is right.

    In the end if comes down to this though. The Altmer are no longer part of the Empire. They don't have to even see a human if they didn't want to, so why are they so adamant about enforcing what they do? You could argue that it's because "it's wrong to worship Talos" but in the process of stopping his worship you're wasting resources and lives trying to fight a pointless war over an idea. That's not justice. That's not knowledgeable or wise. It's pure childish behavior because you don't want someone else to do something that you don't agree with.

  • December 12, 2013 4:09 PM EST
    Dovah supremacy is the only truth!
    • 360 posts
    December 12, 2013 4:18 PM EST

    (slow clapping)

    • 3 posts
    December 12, 2013 5:44 PM EST

    I usually find it interesting that the point of "Talos/Tiber Septim brought peace" is always raised - usually in Talos/Tiber's favor. I would like to point out that this particular statement does not say anything as to the man's character. A dictator, a divine saint, a power hungry warlord, an annoying twerp who just likes authority, and an oafish fop who has delusions of grandeur can all 'bring peace' - in that, after they win, there is peace. This statement is only a credit to someone if 'bringing peace' is their stated goal from the onset. In the case of Tiber Septim... I cannot find much that says this is so. Lorehats can likely throw a book at me with more information than I have, however, as this is entirely from casual perusal of wiki's and general in-game interaction.

    On the Aldmeri side... I cannot - possibly will not - find the idea that any one mortal is 'better' than another as acceptable, based on the concept that there exists in nature no way to gain a strength without in turn incurring a weakness (or at least a cost, in other cases). Mer live longer in general - and so can accumulate more points of data and knowledge. Man lives shorter in general - and so every moment is more vivid and experiences are sharper. Both of these are equal paths to the same amount of understanding - to give just one example.

    Just random thoughts as I was reading through. Some of my characters play different, but if _I_ were to have to choose a path through Skyrim? I would side Imperial... But still kill all the Aldmeri Justicars that came across my path. Have no issue with the Dominion as a whole - but oppression of any sort is bad, mmkay?

  • December 12, 2013 6:02 PM EST

    The only way to solve it once and for all is for one side to completely erase the other. One side to exterminate the other in a holy war. 

    • 91 posts
    December 12, 2013 7:35 PM EST

    Shor's got the idea! Elder Scrolls 6: Total War! We can have everyone just go at it and in the end everyone dies that way everyone wins... or no one does... Ah who cares we'd get 'splosions!!!

    • 52 posts
    December 12, 2013 9:53 PM EST
    Actually the Elves lifespan Is only around 300 years of age. (Confirmed by Lawrence Schick, Loremaster of ESO) the only way an Elf would achieve 1000 years of age is by powerful magic. (Most likely making oneself a Lich)
  • December 12, 2013 10:17 PM EST
    Got the source where he said that?
    • 52 posts
    December 12, 2013 10:27 PM EST
    I forget what video it was but It Was either one of The ShoddyCast's video or one from Zenimax Online Studios. (I believe it was in one the Shoddycast's ESO weekly series though)