Forums » Elder Scrolls

• Jacob Terrence Behnke

  

  • 8 posts
   

  December 31, 2011 2:53 AM EST

  I haven't had much contact with the Thalmor in-game aside from Ondolemar in Markarth, but one thing he says has made me scratch my head:

  "The Empire has agreed to accept our beliefs, and it is the responsibility of its citizens to cease their heretical worship."

  How does acceptance of another nation's religious beliefs translate to granting that nation the ability to rove the country freely and arrest anyone they deem breaking their laws and taking them away to torture and kill them?  To me, acceptance would indicate that the Empire and the Dominion agreed to leave each other alone.  That Talos shrines in Summerset Isle, Valenwood and Elseweyr would be dismantled and the Thalmor would ignore the worship in the Empire, but that's not what's happened at all.  The Thalmor have imposed their beliefs on the Empire, effectively conquering the Empire without conquering it, since the Imperial laws don't apply to the Thalmor, while the Thalmor's laws apply to the Empire.

  I know that part of this is to make us really hate the Thalmor, no matter race or faction, but it seems like a poor choice of words on Ondolemar's part.  The Thalmor don't need to hide their intentions behind false civility, they barely use civility themselves the way they talk down to even other High Elves.

  I honestly wish Bethesda had put an option in to debate that:

  "The Empire "accepts" your beliefs?  Since when does the Empire have to enforce another nation's laws?  You don't see the Legion marching into the Dominion to enforce our laws on your people!  Who are mortals to decide who's a god and who isn't?"  That kind of thing.  Ondolemar would probably brush it off at best or attack you at worst, but as it stands it sounds like the Dragonborn blithely accepts that garbage.

• Paul McCrory

  

  • 14 posts
   

  December 31, 2011 7:54 AM EST

  I know what you mean, there certainly aren't enough 'debate' options or viewpoints for the Dragonborn to take in Skyrim.  One thing I loved about Fallout 3 and NV was the vast array of dialogue options/decisions the player could take, something I thought they would carry over a bit more to Skyrim.

  Whilst I get annoyed at not being able to question the racism of some Nords or the plain arrogance of the Thalmor, I also find it irritating that there is not an option to side with their views as well.  Why shouldn't the player be able to join the Thalmor? Or at least agree with them?

• Paul

  

  • 773 posts
   

  December 31, 2011 8:35 AM EST

  I agree, but I'm fully expecting the Thalmor to be much more fleshed out in a DLC. And failing that, there are bound to be mods which develop them, or at least make them playable.

• Sancre Tor

  

  • 7 posts
   

  December 31, 2011 10:57 AM EST

  ""Titus II knew that there would be no better time to negotiate peace, and late in 4E 175 the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion signed the White-Gold Concordat, ending the Great War.

  The terms were harsh, but Titus II believed that it was necessary to secure peace and give the Empire a chance to regain its strength. The two most controversial terms of the concordant were the banning of the worship of Talos and the cession of a large section of southern Hammerfell (most of what was already occupied by Aldmeri forces).

  No part of the Empire would have accepted these terms in 4E 171, dictated by the Thalmor at swords-point. Titus II would have faced civil war. By 4E 175, most of the Empire welcomed peace at almost any price...""

  We have to understand, that is not a mutual goverment, but the Thalmor controlling the Empire. The Imperials have but to accept this, or face a second war, they are not going to win...
  
  So, the Thalmor freely ill and capture anyone they want, under the Talos ban, because, they are just able to...

• Sancre Tor

  

  • 7 posts
   

  December 31, 2011 11:24 AM EST

  True, it would be nice if you could join the Thalmor, they should look into this on the DLCs. OK, the Thalmor are arogant, the Imperials are douches, and the Nords racists... So? Are we perfect? Cant a High-Elf share the ambitions of the Aldmeri Dominion? Like a Nord joins the Stormcloaks to see his homeland free?

• Jacob Terrence Behnke

  

  • 8 posts
   

  December 31, 2011 12:02 PM EST

  So what's stopping the Thalmor from attacking the Empire again to finish the job?  It seems like that's what they REALLY want, an excuse to start the war up again and enslave all of Tamriel.  Sure, they got what they originally wanted in the end, but it was the Empire that came forward and asked for peace.  If the Thalmor are so powerful they could steamroll the Empire any time they wanted, why not come up with some excuse to begin another Great War and crush what remains of the Empire while it's still weak?