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  • Member
    May 27, 2017

    Paws said:

    David said:

    The way I see it is that because the Empire, Legion and such is pretty much the Roman Empire....

    Ah,Ok, well again that is more of the way the Imperials are presented. In truth, the Seat of Sundered Kings was designed in a way that the two predominant cultures, the Nibenese and Colovians, had much different values and ideas in contrast to each other. The whole "Roman" thing is more likely Akaviri in origin, as the Imperial Legion's tactics, armour, and defences were reformed by Reman when the Akaviri invaders of 1E 2703 swore allegiance to his Dragonborness :D

    I kind of get that, but I guess my problem is that I am looking at from a real life point of view and not anything else. Oh well, thanks for the help though.

  • Member
    May 27, 2017

    David said:

    Again, I totally get that and understand that to a point, but it doesn't make sense. Even in the Nordic, Elven, and Nedic the Deadra are evil, but the accounts in a way. What is stopping a Molang Bal worshiper from spreading their Vampiric disease, or violently take over the throne himself and allow him to cross over like in ESO and such? What is stopping a Dagon worshipper to do something similar to what the Mythic Dawn did? That is why I don't understand why they don't ban Deadric worshipping, because if enough people worshipp them and such than the Emipre itself will fall and you return to Tamriel like before with the Aeylids in a way.

    I'll leave the Roman history to you and Tein, but I think you might have answered your original question about Daedric holidays. By limiting their worship to one day a year, the empire is in effect controlling the practice as best they are able without inciting unrest, which is politically shrewd. On the metaphysical level, the Amulet of Kings and the Dragonfires (the latter being invented by Reman) prevented Daedric invasion: As long as a Dragonborn Emperor sat upon the Ruby Throne and wore the AoK, Tamriel was safe from such Daedric intrusion. At the end of the Third Era, Martin smashed the AoK and became an avatar of Akatosh, this act implied that the Covenant was no longer needed and Tamriel was forever after safe.

    David said:

    ...Oh well, thanks for the help though.

    No worries :) It's a shame this discussion will get lost in the infinite pages of the questions thread :D T'was fun!

  • Member
    May 27, 2017

    Paws said:

    David said:

    Again, I totally get that and understand that to a point, but it doesn't make sense. Even in the Nordic, Elven, and Nedic the Deadra are evil, but the accounts in a way. What is stopping a Molang Bal worshiper from spreading their Vampiric disease, or violently take over the throne himself and allow him to cross over like in ESO and such? What is stopping a Dagon worshipper to do something similar to what the Mythic Dawn did? That is why I don't understand why they don't ban Deadric worshipping, because if enough people worshipp them and such than the Emipre itself will fall and you return to Tamriel like before with the Aeylids in a way.

    I'll leave the Roman history to you and Tein, but I think you might have answered your original question about Daedric holidays. By limiting their worship to one day a year, the empire is in effect controlling the practice as best they are able without inciting unrest, which is politically shrewd. On the metaphysical level, the Amulet of Kings and the Dragonfires (the latter being invented by Reman) prevented Daedric invasion: As long as a Dragonborn Emperor sat upon the Ruby Throne and wore the AoK, Tamriel was safe from such Daedric intrusion. At the end of the Third Era, Martin smashed the AoK and became an avatar of Akatosh, this act implied that the Covenant was no longer needed and Tamriel was forever after safe.

    David said:

    ...Oh well, thanks for the help though.

    No worries :) It's a shame this discussion will get lost in the infinite pages of the questions thread :D T'was fun!

    I do understand that now but still makes zero sense to me. So if all they had to was smash the AoK and Tamriel would forever be safe if someone became an avatar of Akatosh, why didn't they do that is the first place? That could have prevented the events of Oblivion and ESO, which could have prevented the Civil War and Dominion in Skyrim and before. That is my problem with ES Lore they give you so much, and yet so less also. My main problem is that there is too may what ifs and not enough answers, which I hate and I think isn't well thought out because there are so many things in ES Lore that are so obscured it makes no sense what so ever, or there is little information about something you can't tell if it a major thing or minor thing in the world of ES. I have a theory about Lorkhan and why he created the world like he did, but there isn't enough lore to back up my thoery.

    If you would like to continue this discussion we can, but I am just afraid it lead nowhere since I just can't understand ES Lore. XD

     

  • Member
    May 28, 2017

    David said:

    I do understand that now but still makes zero sense to me. So if all they had to was smash the AoK and Tamriel would forever be safe if someone became an avatar of Akatosh, why didn't they do that is the first place? That could have prevented the events of Oblivion and ESO, which could have prevented the Civil War and Dominion in Skyrim and before. That is my problem with ES Lore they give you so much, and yet so less also. My main problem is that there is too may what ifs and not enough answers, which I hate and I think isn't well thought out because there are so many things in ES Lore that are so obscured it makes no sense what so ever, or there is little information about something you can't tell if it a major thing or minor thing in the world of ES. I have a theory about Lorkhan and why he created the world like he did, but there isn't enough lore to back up my thoery.

    If you would like to continue this discussion we can, but I am just afraid it lead nowhere since I just can't understand ES Lore. XD

    Ok, I will continue then :D Firstly, don't sell yourself short, Dave. The world of TES lore is deep, and there isn't a codex or encyclopedia to refer to, only original sources. On the subject of lore being obscured, I like to whip out and bore people at any opportunity with this insight by the lead loremaster of ESO, Lawrence Schick:

     

    ...all the lore in the game is delivered from the standpoint of people in Tamriel. In that way, Elder Scrolls is different from most fantasy campaign worlds, right? I mean, the typical paradigm, you know - George RR Martin with Westeros, Tolkien with Middle Earth, the familiar D&D worlds of The Forgotten Realms or the world of Greyhawk - those all have histories and backgrounds that are all laid out and they’ve all got some lore-daddy who decided everything and everything is ‘this is how it is’, so everything works within the envelope of things that are already decided.

    Elder Scrolls - Tamriel - does not follow that paradigm. In Elder Scrolls, all lore is delivered not from on high by revelation, but from people who live their lives in the game, in the world of the game, and based on their beliefs. So that does two things for us: It means the lore always carries not just information about what the person is talking about, but also information about the person and their culture. Because the way the lore is delivered tells you how they believe things actually work in the world.

    What this means, of course, is that people have different viewpoints - these viewpoints sometimes contradict each other, and so sometimes we have players saying “alright, this person believes that, and that person believes this other thing, but which one’s the real thing?” Well... it’s not a world like ours. In a world like ours, where you can sort of trust in science and say “well yes, people have different beliefs but I know there is an objective reality.” This is a world of myth. This is a world where reality is actually changeable, where the Divines can change not only what happens going forward, but what has happened in the past. So, you know, the idea there is an objective reality behind all these different people’s opinions is not necessarily the case in the world of Tamriel. So listen to what all these different people have to say, make up your own mind, make up your own beliefs about what happened and you’re as liable - since you’re playing in their world and you’re playing a character in their world - what you think happened is as legitimate as what that NPC thinks.

    You may want to pop in and discuss Lore: Which Way do you Swing by The Lorc of Flowers to express what lore means to you :)

    On the subject of Lorkhan and your theory, well I say post it! :) Can't hurt to, and we all may learn something in the ensuing discussions :)

    So if all they had to was smash the AoK and Tamriel would forever be safe if someone became an avatar of Akatosh, why didn't they do that is the first place?

    Haha, damn good question! I would say that there has rarely been a need to. The AoK has been lost a few times but always gets found by a Dragonborn who then sits on the Ruby Throne, lights the Dragonfires, and reforges the veil. The Amulet is also a symbol, representing the Empire started by Alessia and the Covenant she made with Akatosh. To smash the thing would be anathema. More, though, it is a scrying tool for want of a better word. Martin Septim knew it was the right thing to, for he was Dragonblooded and "sees more than lesser men". The Elder Scrolls foretold of the event, and Martin was in the moment.

    That might sound like a cop-out, but the stories told in TES games are like memes. If we look at any of the last three (ESO too to be fair), we can see how the tale of the Player Character is like a retellng of past events. The difference is that in TES III, IV, and V, the story finally ends. A example of that meme, or song, can be seen in Skyrim: All the events of 4E 201 are almost identical to the events of the Mythic Era. War, Priests, Dragons, Heroes, Tongues, Betrayals... all take to the field at the same moment.

  • Member
    May 28, 2017

    @Paws I wouldn't say I am selling myself short, as mush as I just don't understand. Now reading what you have posted I now see my problem, which is LotR, GoT, and such is straight forward while ES is self-interpretation you can say, which is something that bugs me. I will give that thread a look and post my opinion. Also, I might post my Lorkhan theory once it gets more fleshed out. :)

    But why didn't someone think of doing like that before? I mean they could have read an Elder Scroll or something and be like "Oh if I combine my royal blood of Dragonborn and smash the AoK and what not then Tamriel will be okay." If all Bethesda is doing is rehashing the same ole story over and over like you said that is just being lazy and dumb, or if they are rehashing stuff from the Lore why not go more into detail with it.

  • May 29, 2017

    Do we have any information on whether or not there's a minimum age to sign on to the Legion?

  • Member
    May 29, 2017

    Solyeuse said:

    Do we have any information on whether or not there's a minimum age to sign on to the Legion?

    I don't think there is a source that says it, but since it is based on the Roman Legion I would say 16 to 18 would be the minimum, though they would begin to train at 10 to 12.

  • Member
    June 1, 2017

    Does anyone know anything about Namira aside from what it says on the wiki(s)? I am having a really hard time researching her as there hardly is anything about her to be found anywhere. The Beggar Prince and the wiki are the best I've been able to get so far... fustrating ancient darkness, why my mortal mind no comprehend you?

     

  • Member
    June 1, 2017

    BlueDremora said:

    Does anyone know anything about Namira aside from what it says on the wiki(s)? I am having a really hard time researching her as there hardly is anything about her to be found anywhere. The Beggar Prince and the wiki are the best I've been able to get so far... fustrating ancient darkness, why my mortal mind no comprehend you?

     

    Perhaps we could get creative with the sources? I remembered this thread on the subject, it isn't long, but maybe it will trigger something? The thing which is most fun about the Daedric Princes is that they are what they are, by and large. That is to say, they completely embody their spheres. You could say that Sheogorath is the Prince of madness, for example, but it could be more accurate to actually say Sheogorath is madness. Does that makes sense? Sometimes if we shift our perspectives just a bit, we can have a bit of fun.

  • Member
    June 1, 2017

    BlueDremora said:

    Does anyone know anything about Namira aside from what it says on the wiki(s)? I am having a really hard time researching her as there hardly is anything about her to be found anywhere. The Beggar Prince and the wiki are the best I've been able to get so far... fustrating ancient darkness, why my mortal mind no comprehend you?

    Namira hates Necromancers and Vampires, and she is the "end" of life. That is all I really know about her.


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