[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Legion]Legion[/url] said:[/b]

What're the Sundered Hills? Is the implication that he's...Breton?

[/blockquote]

Aye, the chances he was of Breton blood are high - if the legend is true. Yet we see his corpse draugrfied and it is very Nord. Now the Reachmen can be of other blood, but their culture would not be inclined towards a Nordic burial, one would have thought.

So was he a Nord as his burial suggests? Or was he a tall Breton given a Nordic tomb, Dragon Cult style? 

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Phil3]Phil[/url] said:[/b]

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Legion]Legion[/url] said:[/b]

What're the Sundered Hills? Is the implication that he's...Breton?

[/blockquote]

Aye, the chances he was of Breton blood are high - if the legend is true. Yet we see his corpse draugrfied and it is very Nord. Now the Reachmen can be of other blood, but their culture would not be inclined towards a Nordic burial, one would have thought.

So was he a Nord as his burial suggests? Or was he a tall Breton given a Nordic tomb, Dragon Cult style? 

[/blockquote]

I think this is where the reason behind the nord burials comes in. Nords under the dragon cult were mummified in order to preserve their bodies until the dragons would return were they would be returned to life to serve their ruler (again priest/warlord/king/...) and the dragons. The key word here is returned.

In the legend of the red eagle there is a specific line which comes to mind here:

He was taken to the place prepared for him, a tomb hidden deep within the rock. With his remaining strength he presented his sword to his people, and swore an oath: Fight on, and when at last the Reach is free, his blade should be returned, that he might rise and lead them again.

From this we learn that his tomb was specifically prepared for him. This means he had been preparing for his death; not too big of a surprise to be honest. What gives it more meaning in my eyes is his promise.

Not only did he prepare for his death, he prepared for a resurrection. You guessed it; a return. Would it be too much of a stretch to claim Faolan chose to be turned into a draugr in the hopes of returning back to semi-life whenever his people truly needed him? As to how he would do it seeing his tale seems to happen after the dragon wars; Hagraven were most likely involved.

It really is interesting as the theme of "ancient myths returning" is very much the Song of Skyrim, but more than that there is a strong parallel to be drawn with TLD. In terms of an ancient hero coming back at the right moment, it could be said the Nords are not alone in having this saviour figure. Which is of no surprise, but only adds to the idea that Dragonborn = Nord hardly does justice to the depth of that which is really going on.

The thing that gets me is that why would the Reachmen of Hestra's day have anything to do with the Cult? Hestra is circa 1029 1E while the last remnants of the Dragon Cult were in Harald's day, 1E 140 ish. So the knowledge the Hagravens have and use to prepare Red Eagle are contrary to their own traditional and more than effective means of implanting a briar heart as a way of resurrection.

So almost a millennia after the last vestiges of the Dragon Cult were supposedly swept from Skyrim, we have evidence of what is perhaps a non-Nord being buried in that old custom with the intent that he should return at the same time as the dragons. What is more, linking the Reachmen to the Dragon Cult is so subversively delicious that I can't help but love it.

This line is what grabs me:

though as with any oral tradition, much of it is likely a later anachronism. Curiously, stories of a similar king and his legendary blade appear in other ancient myths of The Reach.

So, if we take that as the possible truth, we could determine that Red Eagle as we know him is actually a much earlier legendary figure of Nordic descent, bastardised by the Witchmen for their own purposes.

Just to add to this conversation. The dude from the Whiter Phial is also Draugrfied. Curalmil is his name. The name definitely suggests High Elf, but yet Draugr in game. Dunno if it's a mechanic of the game or something more. I can totally see Nords draugrfying an Altmer if he was a big enough asshole. As a punishment. This like bad for Altmers, if I understand their lore correctly. 

Interesting, Lis. I really don't want to go down the lazy writing/mechanics route and so the idea that he was a knife-ear is compelling :D What's the shout in that tomb? Marked for Death? I wonder if the word wall translation can provide a clue.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Phil3]Phil[/url] said:[/b]

Interesting, Lis. I really don't want to go down the lazy writing/mechanics route and so the idea that he was a knife-ear is compelling :D What's the shout in that tomb? Marked for Death? I wonder if the word wall translation can provide a clue.

[/blockquote]

Well, the way word walls work, you get the shout in order regardless of what wall you visit.  Here are the translations.

The one for Krii 

Noble Nords remember these words of
the hoar father: To kill in
glorious war is to honor oneself, to die
in glorious war is to honor all of Skyrim.

The one for Lun

Here fell (the) treacherous thief
Skorji Leech-Fingers, whose head
(was) removed by (the) very axe he
tried to steal.

The one for Aus

Thoringar raised (this) stone
for his daughter’s memory, Noomi, whose
fate (it) was to suffer (the) sting of
many Orc arrows.

The only word I could possibly see relating to the Elves, other than the Orcs clearly mentioned under "Aus" is the generic reference for "Krii"

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/LissetteLongChapper]Lissette Long-Chapper[/url] said:[/b]

Just to add to this conversation. The dude from the Whiter Phial is also Draugrfied. Curalmil is his name. The name definitely suggests High Elf, but yet Draugr in game. Dunno if it's a mechanic of the game or something more. I can totally see Nords draugrfying an Altmer if he was a big enough asshole. As a punishment. This like bad for Altmers, if I understand their lore correctly. 

[/blockquote]

I doubt it was a punishment. While his name does sound distinctly elven (Altmer, Direnni or even Falmer?), he seems to be running the show in his tomb. Which, if we are to follow the example fo the other tombs, means that all the other draugr are there to serve him. Why the hell would you give an asshole you don't like servants in death?

I think this Curalmil was most likely very respected by the nords and seeing his occupation I would say he most likely healed some monarch or something to earn this respect. Another option is that he was associated with the mages up in Winterhold, it's not too far away from his tomb/lab (more on that later), perhaps he was an archmage at some point? Actually come to think of it; both options could very well be correct seeing Winterhold once housed the capital if the jarl is to be believed.

Another thing I find odd about his tomb is the sealed room behind his coffin. It's clearly an alchemical lab which despite the strangely still healthy looking alchemical ingredients that are scattered throughout it, can only have been used by Curalmil himself. Why? Well anyone with a grain of sense would have taken the phial since the only way you can get into the lab is by using some elusive extremely difficult to prepare alchemical solution: anyone who would have come in would have known about the phial. So would this mean that the entire structure was once simply his home and that the nords after his death entombed him there, mere meters away from his lab and added the whole crypt section for his necroslaves?

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Phil3]Phil[/url] said:[/b]

Interesting, Lis. I really don't want to go down the lazy writing/mechanics route and so the idea that he was a knife-ear is compelling :D What's the shout in that tomb? Marked for Death? I wonder if the word wall translation can provide a clue.

[/blockquote]

Yeah those things barely ever represent the dungeon you can find them in. Unlike what Liss says however, the text on the stones as always seemed somewhat static to me; what I mean to say is that despite the fact I may not have found the previous words I've often got the impression that even if I learned just the first word the text may have looked a lot more like that of the second or third word. Might just be me though.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Duvain]Duvain[/url] said:[/b]

Hello people Duvain here, I have read a few things but I would like some more experienced in the lore to tell me what are exactly the Dragons are they realy lesser Aedra? I made a build which will be posted probably at some point and thought to write a backstory and maybe some blog entries or something like that for the character. I wanted something light so the setting would be the dragonborn Main Character and his dealings with a Dragon and more precisely a Dragon's Soul since their souls are immortal(?) but I thought if the dragon was percieving itself as a female it would help a lot the comical elements of the story. We have seen that even though the Deadra are genderless many of them maintain a male or female form like Azura or Meridia and their voices are also female in the games and many of the Aedra also have maybe preferred or actual genders like Mara who is thought depending the religion to either be the wife of Akatosh or Lorkhan [or both(?)]. So is it correct lore wise to have a female dragoness?

[/blockquote]

I doubt dragons have genders in the TES lore; first of all there is no mention of them ever needing to reproduce (there's actually a clear proof they don't), but why would they have them; they're, in the words of my co-host: "organic time-machine shards of a bigger whole that is Akatosh". They don't eat, they don't reproduce; they dominate.

You do raise a fair point concerning the aedra and daedra. I have a few ideas on that subject though; first of all the divine have a gender that fits their sphere; Mara of motherly love, Kynareth of Nature (as in mother nature) and Dibella of sex and artistry. Yes, it's all fairly stereotypical, but then again the imperial divines are the embodiment of their spheres. The Aedra and Daedra are a bit more difficult to explain. I'm assuming the Daedra actually choose to be a specific gender to change their image in the eyes of mortals, THis is just speculation though, I do not have nearly enough knowledge concerning them. If you're interested in them though I would suggest you try talking to Phil.