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  • Member
    September 12, 2016

    Phil said:

    ESO establishes firm connections between Meridia, The Fighter's Guild and The Dawn Guard through the skill tree of the Fighter's Guild faction. That Merid is an enemy of Molag Bal is established both quests and in lore. Her sphere of life is directly opposed to Molag's sphere of unlife and that gets explored a fair bit.

    However, is there anything explaining why there are those connections between the guild, The lady of Light and the Dawn Guard? Apart from the fact it makes thematic sense, is there anything to explain why in 2E 500 ish the Fighter's Guild became synonymous with Merid and the Dawn Guard?

    Hello Phil. I'm just seeing this question, so my apologies for the delay. There is a definitely connection, which is played out in the Fighter's Guild quest line.

     SPOILER WARNING

     

     

     

     

     

     Through the questline, you learn that Meridia initially contacted the original guildmaster, Jolfnir Iceblade, ordering him (in a very Meridia-like way) to mobilize the guild to fight Molag Bal. Jolfnir refused to consort with her. Meridia had Jolfnir's Argonian protoge, Sees-All-Colors (an ironic name), who just so happens to be a worshipper of Meridia, to kill Jolfnir and take his place. As guildmaster, Sees-All-Colors pledged the guild's loyalty to Meridia, who then granted her blessings (including the right for high-ranking members to use Dawnbreaker).

    The tail end of the quest line implies that a small group of people still agreed with the goals of Meridia and wanted to continue the fight against undead and daedra.  Although not fully fleshed out, I believe the game was trying to point to the Dawn Guard.

     

  • Member
    September 12, 2016

    Nice! Thanks Patriarch. Now from where I sit that is actually quite a big thing:

    The tail end of the quest line implies that a small group of people still agreed with the goals of Meridia and wanted to continue the fight against undead and daedra.  Although not fully fleshed out, I believe the game was trying to point to the Dawn Guard.

    It also adds a little extra to Merid's sphere for not only is it undead but daedra too who her followers oppose.

    Do you fancy further fleshing this out, making that FG, DG and Meridia connection more apparent and understandable in what could be a joint project? In the FG i have only gotten as far as some forge deep in a dwemer ruin. That quest is complete but i forget what the next one is.

    In any case, thanks again Patriarch. Food for thought here :)

  • Member
    September 12, 2016

    Phil said:

    Nice! Thanks Patriarch. Now from where I sit that is actually quite a big thing:

    The tail end of the quest line implies that a small group of people still agreed with the goals of Meridia and wanted to continue the fight against undead and daedra.  Although not fully fleshed out, I believe the game was trying to point to the Dawn Guard.

    It also adds a little extra to Merid's sphere for not only is it undead but daedra too who her followers oppose.

    Do you fancy further fleshing this out, making that FG, DG and Meridia connection more apparent and understandable in what could be a joint project? In the FG i have only gotten as far as some forge deep in a dwemer ruin. That quest is complete but i forget what the next one is.

    In any case, thanks again Patriarch. Food for thought here :)

     

    Actually, yes, I would. I need a little time as I am at work atm. One interesting thing that immediately comes to mind: If followers of Meridia are aligned with her goals and attitudes, if her followers are anti-daedra, wouldn't that mean that Meridia does not consider herself to be a daedra, despite how mortals generally view her? I guess that means she more identifies with being a Magna-ge, although fallen from grace (as it were).  So, in her mind, she would be a "lone wolf" - a rogue - in the struggle between Aedric and Daedric influence over Tamriel. She probably hates the daedra (for what the represent - this is fleshed out in the main quest - she warns that other daedra were watching the players struggle against Molag Bal and to be on guard for their plans) and she probably hates the Aedra (for not having the good sense to flee with Magnus like the other Magna-ge).

    [I'm not sure where I'm going with this line of thought, but it's tugging at my mind]. 

     

  • Member
    September 12, 2016

    Patriarch said:

    Phil said:

    Nice! Thanks Patriarch. Now from where I sit that is actually quite a big thing:

    The tail end of the quest line implies that a small group of people still agreed with the goals of Meridia and wanted to continue the fight against undead and daedra.  Although not fully fleshed out, I believe the game was trying to point to the Dawn Guard.

    It also adds a little extra to Merid's sphere for not only is it undead but daedra too who her followers oppose.

    Do you fancy further fleshing this out, making that FG, DG and Meridia connection more apparent and understandable in what could be a joint project? In the FG i have only gotten as far as some forge deep in a dwemer ruin. That quest is complete but i forget what the next one is.

    In any case, thanks again Patriarch. Food for thought here :)

     

    Actually, yes, I would. I need a little time as I am at work atm. One interesting thing that immediately comes to mind: If followers of Meridia are aligned with her goals and attitudes, if her followers are anti-daedra, wouldn't that mean that Meridia does not consider herself to be a daedra, despite how mortals generally view her? I guess that means she more identifies with being a Magna-ge, although fallen from grace (as it were).  So, in her mind, she would be a "lone wolf" - a rogue - in the struggle between Aedric and Daedric influence over Tamriel. She probably hates the daedra (for what the represent - this is fleshed out in the main quest - she warns that other daedra were watching the players struggle against Molag Bal and to be on guard for their plans) and she probably hates the Aedra (for not having the good sense to flee with Magnus like the other Magna-ge).

    [I'm not sure where I'm going with this line of thought, but it's tugging at my mind]. 

     

    The quintessential fallen angel. I think we are on exactly the same page. She's this tragic figure, no longer fits in anywhere yet longs to be loved. I like that bit about oppsong the Aedra also, that she didn't want anything to do with Mundus like the other Ge yt now finds herself in its orbit is actually rather sad. Forever alone, forever sad and forever strong. Meridia becomes more and more complex and human as we delve deeper.

  • September 12, 2016
    Now that makes Meridia sound little bit like good ol' Malacath. Interesting thoughts, Patriarch. I'll get back to this in few hours. Just a question. How do you think Ayleids, Aurorans and mainly Umaril fall into this? Were they just using Meridia's name for everything they done? Did she approve? Or maybe she didn't have a say in that?
  • Member
    September 12, 2016

    My interpretation comes down to the love issue. In those days the only ones to love her were the Ayleids but even among their clans she was not always the holiest. We can see by her actions at Delodiil or that temple she moved into the very realm of Bal that she loved them and stayed loyal to her followers. By the time of the Alessian Crusades and Pelinal's death that loyalty and love never wavered.

    So on top of this tragic fallen angel we have this being who also does the right thing but forever gets it wrong. She fought the Chrome Device and got kicked out, she fought the Alessian Rebellions and to top it all the very people who loved her best are now a memory. Poor, sweet Merid. Both dark and light.

  • Member
    September 12, 2016

    Phil said:

    My interpretation comes down to the love issue. In those days the only ones to love her were the Ayleids but even among their clans she was not always the holiest. We can see by her actions at Delodiil or that temple she moved into the very realm of Bal that she loved them and stayed loyal to her followers. By the time of the Alessian Crusades and Pelinal's death that loyalty and love never wavered.

    So on top of this tragic fallen angel we have this being who also does the right thing but forever gets it wrong. She fought the Chrome Device and got kicked out, she fought the Alessian Rebellions and to top it all the very people who loved her best are now a memory. Poor, sweet Merid. Both dark and light.

    Her actions don't seem so sweet in Knights of the Nine. For all she tends to want to push Daedric influences and undeath from Nirn, she doesn't seem to mind using her own agents to enact her will one bit.

    I sometimes think Meridia is seen as a "Good" daedra because what she desires usually aligns with what is best for Nirn. When it comes to taking action to get what she wants, she's as ruthless as all the rest of the Daedric Princes.

  • Member
    September 14, 2016

    Phil said:

    My interpretation comes down to the love issue. In those days the only ones to love her were the Ayleids but even among their clans she was not always the holiest. We can see by her actions at Delodiil or that temple she moved into the very realm of Bal that she loved them and stayed loyal to her followers. By the time of the Alessian Crusades and Pelinal's death that loyalty and love never wavered.

    So on top of this tragic fallen angel we have this being who also does the right thing but forever gets it wrong. She fought the Chrome Device and got kicked out, she fought the Alessian Rebellions and to top it all the very people who loved her best are now a memory. Poor, sweet Merid. Both dark and light.

    Dark and light: she is, after all, the Lady of Infinite Energies. Energy is found in both states, dark and light.

     

    SPOILERS INCOMING

     

    In ESO's main quest, do you remember the Hollow City? It is an Ayleid city taken by Meridia into Coldharbour as a "forward camp" of sorts. Apparently, the city was devoted to the worship of Meridia. Interestingly, her energy keeps it unspoiled by and protected from Molag Bal even though it lies within his realm. Anyway, I often wonder if her motivation to take it to Coldharbour was not entirely altruistic. A part of me wants to think that she brought the entire city there to keep the people who loved her the most from vanishing away. Like a mother's love for her child, Meridia shelters the city and its citizens from the darkness, danger, and cruelty of the surrounding world. 

  • Member
    September 14, 2016

    Patriarch said:

    Phil said:

    My interpretation comes down to the love issue. In those days the only ones to love her were the Ayleids but even among their clans she was not always the holiest. We can see by her actions at Delodiil or that temple she moved into the very realm of Bal that she loved them and stayed loyal to her followers. By the time of the Alessian Crusades and Pelinal's death that loyalty and love never wavered.

    So on top of this tragic fallen angel we have this being who also does the right thing but forever gets it wrong. She fought the Chrome Device and got kicked out, she fought the Alessian Rebellions and to top it all the very people who loved her best are now a memory. Poor, sweet Merid. Both dark and light.

    Dark and light: she is, after all, the Lady of Infinite Energies. Energy is found in both states, dark and light.

     

    SPOILERS INCOMING

     

    In ESO's main quest, do you remember the Hollow City? It is an Ayleid city taken by Meridia into Coldharbour as a "forward camp" of sorts. Apparently, the city was devoted to the worship of Meridia. Interestingly, her energy keeps it unspoiled by and protected from Molag Bal even though it lies within his realm. Anyway, I often wonder if her motivation to take it to Coldharbour was not entirely altruistic. A part of me wants to think that she brought the entire city there to keep the people who loved her the most from vanishing away. Like a mother's love for her child, Meridia shelters the city and its citizens from the darkness, danger, and cruelty of the surrounding world. 

    I did a little research into that when updating the Merid Dos, not quite the same as experiencing it though. I am totally getting that interpretation Patriarch and it is so on my page, factoring in the imagery of hands which appears on her Skyrim architecture, I very much think she is all about guiding, mercy and love too. maybe a little too clingy, but who can blame her?

    I am not 100% clear whether The Hollow City is connected to Delodiil. Does the game imply that they are one and the same, or is lost Delodiil another city she saved for similar reasons?

  • Member
    September 19, 2016

    Phil said:

    I am not 100% clear whether The Hollow City is connected to Delodiil. Does the game imply that they are one and the same, or is lost Delodiil another city she saved for similar reasons?

    Because I haven't done the FG or main quests since launch, I took my sorcerer through both quests this weekend. In both quests, the game strongly implies that the Hollow City IS in fact Delodiil. However, in true TES fashion, it never comes right out and makes the claim. 

    I did some research on Reddit and came across this lore nugget from Lawrence Schick, himself. Here, by citing The Withering of Deodiil, the Schickster seems to be implying that Hollow City is Delodiil. There are quite a bit of inconsistencies, though, in the timeline. I think those inconsistencies could be explained since everything during the planemeld appears to be a bit wibbly-wobly, timey-wimey.