Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Examining Jurgen Windcaller

  • Mr. likes this
  • Member
    October 29, 2014

    Interesting theory. Sadly contradicting with the events of Bloodmoon expansion for Morrowind. If I read it correctly, there are draugr there and there were no dragons during that time

  • Member
    October 29, 2014

    I think it might more applicable for the scale of the draugr presence. It's probably more likely that it's unrelated, but maybe the huge population of draugr in Skyrim. Or it could just be Skyrim.

  • Member
    October 29, 2014

    According to the Skaal, the draugr on Solstheim are cursed by the All-Maker, which could potentially explain their existence before the return of dragons.

    Taken from UESP: "Once, they were warriors much like the Skaal. Trapped and hungry on this island, they feasted on the flesh of their fallen comrades, which is a crime against nature. The All-Maker cursed them with undeath, forever doomed to walk the land in search of more of the flesh of man to consume." 

    Although the only evidence we have of this as far as I'm aware is the legends of Skaal, which don't exactly make for concrete evidence.

  • Tom
    Member
    October 29, 2014

    No one's quite sure who or what the All-Maker is, which throws an even bigger wrench into this.

  • Member
    October 30, 2014

    Ok I will play. 

    Amongst the Draugr

    Paragraph 3-5

    "I had always wondered why the ancient priests of the dragon cult insisted that their followers be buried with them. It seems the height of pagan vanity to drag your conscripts to their death along with you, but as I integrated into their presence, I began to observe the reasons. Every day, a different set of draugr would awaken, shamble their way to the sarcophagus of their priest, and prostrate themselves before it. Several hours of this, followed by a meticulous cleaning of the area. It would appear that the adherents of the dragon priest continue their worship of him in death, which would also explain the ferocity with which they defend his chambers.

    It took several weeks before I felt comfortable approaching the dragon priest's resting place, myself. Inch by inch, until the snarling draugrs around me seemed to tire of fending off my timid presence. I was able to set some simple scrying spells around the tomb, that I might get a sense of what magical energies resided there. When the next group of draugr came to pay homage to the priest, I noted a sort of transferal happening. A distinct flow of life force between the adherents and the master.

    It was here that I finally understood the dragon cult's notion of resurrection. The second eternal life was only promised to those who ascended to the priesthood, but the lesser functionaries contributed their life force to sustaining them for eternity. I don't know what sort of eternal wellspring they draw from, but it's clear that each draugr carries only the barest whisper of life in it, and rekindles it nightly while resting in its niche. I now believe that the grotesque forms that we see in the barrows were, in fact, buried fully as men and women, and only over the thousands of years that have passed withered into the wretched things we know. If we had visited a barrow directly after its construction, we might not have even known any of its inhabitants were dead!"

    Based on these words we can draw the conclusion that  Draugr have a purpose. For lack of a better phrase eternal janitors. Or at least in the cases of halls where there is one of the ancient dragon priest. This only explains Draugr that would be close to (proximity) to the priest, any that are on the opposite side of the puzzle door would not be able to get close enough for this transference.

    To quote Death of a Wanderer

    "The sealing-doors. It's not enough to just have the claw. They're made of massive stone wheels that must align with the claw's symbols before they'll open. It's a sort of lock, I suppose. But I didn't know why they bothered with them. If you had the claw, you also had the symbols to open the door. So why..."

    He was broken up by a coughing fit. It was the most I had heard him speak in months, but I could tell how much of a struggle it was. I knew his mind, though, and helped the thought along.

    "Why even have a combination if you're going to write it on the key?"

    "Exactly. But as I lay bleeding on that floor, I figured it out. The Draugr are relentless, but far from clever. Once I was downed, they continued shuffling about. To no aim. No direction. Bumping against one another, the walls."

    "So?"

    "So the symbols on the doors weren't meant to be another lock. Just a way of ensuring the person entering was actually alive and had a functioning mind."

    "Then the doors..."

    "Were never meant to keep people out. They were meant to keep the Draugr in."

    If we go off of this then why are there Draugr in the tombs on the opposite side of the puzzle doors? You could say someone entered the main chamber and release the Draugr but the simple architecture of the tombs states otherwise. With niches for bodies. Also most of what I am referring to as "tombs" were at one time cities. So at what point were these cities abandoned and used for tombs? At what point did the capital city of Skyrim (During the time of the Dragon Cult) Bromjunaar which translates into North King Servant or North Light Servant. Jun can mean either king or light. Become nothing more than an abandoned ruin. Lore tells us that the city was left to rot towards the end or shortly after the dragon war ended. We also know that the Dragon Cult was hunted down and destroyed. Which leads me to the conclusion that Draugr have two main purposes. To serve Dragon Priest, or to insure no one sets them free. Beyond the puzzle door are the servants, before are those that a guards of a different kind. Jailors if you will. I believe that a Draugr is an ancient Nord who believed so strongly in a purpose that they achieved immortality through the force of will. How can this be you ask. If not necromancy or a curse I would like to point out a paragraph in the skill book. Catalogue of Weapon Enchantments.

    "The rarest of enchantments are those of banishment and paralyzation. Banishment only affects summoned atronachs or undead raised by wizards. The banishment breaks the link between the caster and the creature. Summoned atronach return to the Oblivion plane from whence they came. Raised undead are released. It is important to note that self-willed undead are not affected by banishment.:

    Notice the term self wiled undead. We all know and should be able to agree that the Nords are a very strong willed people. If the conviction was there, their will alone could have kept them in this state of undeath. Following this reasoning, and all this being said. I submit to all of you that the Draugr are simply ancient Nords that had a strong belief in a certain cause even after their death. So maybe those Draugr found in Ustengrav are simply the first generations of those that followed the Way of the Voice.

    (Edited simply to wrap quotes for ease of reading. Phil)

  • Member
    October 30, 2014

    Interesting that Amongst the Draugr complicates the issue of ancient Nord mummification. Maybe they did even do it? They must have done something, though, having left embalming tools and urns freaking everywhere.

    Now, with the source from the Catalogue, it would seem to be moot to argue the notion of self-willed dead. I would say it's weird, but it's an idea I capitalized on for my last character build. What I do have some doubt about is this:

     I believe that a Draugr is an ancient Nord who believed so strongly in a purpose that they achieved immortality through the force of will.

    Why would Jailors and Janitors be part of the same complex? If some of the draugr were there to keep the dragon priest or other denizen sealed in, then was the area of each barrow/tomb outside the puzzle-door built afterward to secure them(that's kind of the idea I was picking up from your mention of the ancient cities, but I'm not sure)? If these guards were aware of the havoc that could be caused by the dragon priests, why didn't they simply enter and destroy their source of eternal life?

    While an interesting explanation for Dragon Priest draugr (whose purpose hasn't been questioned to much) this doesn't do well for shedding light on Jurgen's situation. If the draugr there are self willed...what is it that's keeping them going? Just protecting his tomb? It's already essentially inaccessible to any but a Tongue or Dragonborn.

  • Member
    October 31, 2014

    Like I said a Nord is strong willed. However as far we know Jurgen's tomb is suppose to be only accessible to someone who can wield the power of the voice. The counter argument to that is Delphine.

    As far as why there are two "different types" of Draugr. That may be hours of research in it's own. A good discussion may answer some questions but raise 10 more.

  • Tom
    Member
    October 31, 2014

    If that discourages you, then you're in the wrong group.

  • Member
    October 31, 2014

    Actually I just thought of something. My force of will theory would make sense. Try to stay with the coming conclusion. The Nords are loosely based on the Norse people. Now in ancient times the Norse people told stories of Draugr. Beings of hate. Who felt such strong emotion that it kept them "alive".

    Maybe there are not two different types of Draugr, maybe the Draugr are all members of the Dragon cult, and as their last tribute to their masters, they have kept themselves in this state to keep the prophecy of the last Dragonborn from coming true. If TLDB can not learn the words of power how could he challenge Alduin?

  • Member
    October 31, 2014

    Who said I was discouraged?