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Discussion: Alignments - Chaotic Evil

Tags: #Alignments  #Zonnonn 
  • Member
    November 9

    Our 9 week series is now at an end folks! I think you'll all agree that some great points have been made and some serious discussioning has occured, and I hope that we're all a little clearer on what the chuffin' heck alignments actually mean now.

    But I'm getting ahead of myself. We've got one last thing to discuss. Some call them the 'bad guys', some think they're purely misunderstood. Whatever they are, we simply call them

    Chaotic Evil

    And I reckon that this is gonna be one of the most interesting discussions yet! Are they the typical antagonist who just wants to make stuff go boom? Or is their a more refined edge to the often reckless disregard for anyone but number one? Get talkin' everyone, and make sure to comment on someone else's comment when you post one of your own!

  • November 10
    With the exception of the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim, I've never really played as a character in this allignment. To me, the plot to kill the emperor served as a means to revive the Dark Brotherhood, and this involved potentially pissing off the Thalmor, The Legion, and The Stormcloaks because all three factions needed him alive in some way. The Thalmor needed a puppet, the Legion needed him as a symbol of the Empire they are sworn to defend, and Ulfric needed him as a symbol of the Empire that fell from grace. With the Emperor out of the picture, all three factions essentially lose.
  • Member
    November 10
    Apologize in advance if this looks like a huge block of text. Got problems with my PC and I'm typing this on mobile. That said, some of the links may not work. Chaotic Evil, my favorite type of alignment mainly because characters of this alignment are so god damn unpredictable in their motives. Maybe they're just doing it for the Evulz, or maybe they're doing it for the shits and giggles. But what's important is that they just want to see the world in chaos. TV Tropes defines CE by four types: Type 1: Chaos Over Evil — Above all things they value their personal freedom, and as personalities they are greedy, selfish and hedonistic; therefore they want the freedom to fulfil their greedy, selfish and hedonistic desires. It is often seen in The Friend Nobody Likes and the Token Evil Teammate. What sets them apart from a Type 2 is their occasional demonstration that Even Evil Has Standards - they sided with the good guys, didn't they? Don't turn your back on them for a moment though, because if they feel like their freedom is being infringed they may well go nuts just to prove you can't control them. They're too wild-spirited to really reform, but in the right company their Pet the Dog moments may increase in frequency. Type 2: Evil Over Chaos — They are so Evil that they would rather side with the bad guys even if they have to take a few orders. They place more value in unleashing fiery death and mayhem over the ability to do it at any time, so they take orders grudgingly but take them nonetheless. This type of Chaotic Evil makes for a particularly unpleasant brand of Mook, given that they may well revel in collateral damage and killing any fellow Mooks unfortunate enough to get in their way. If the Big Bad handles his great big stick skillfully enough, a Type 2 may become Neutral Evil or even Lawful Evil simply out of habit. If, on the other hand, they are the Big Bad, expect them to go out of their way to violate any sense of honour, tradition, loyalty, or responsibility normally associated with the leadership position, such as betraying their own Mooks purely For the Evulz. Type 3: The Feral Beast — If you're not a predator, you're prey, and God forbid a Type 3 should see you as prey, since weakness is unforgivable. A clever Big Bad may be able to manipulate this guy, but they must dominate the Feral Beast completely in both strength and intelligence. The Feral Beast has a good chance of turning on their evil master and becoming the new, tougher, meaner Big Bad. Type 4: The Intelligent Monster — This type doesn't care who they destroy or how they destroy them; the fact that they can be destroyed is enough. They create plans deliberately structured to spread chaos and misery, and are generally batshit insane with a complete Lack of Empathy. Best examples of CE characters are the Joker from Batman, Yuuki Terumi from Blazblue, Orochimaru from Naruto, as well as three of our favorite Daedric Princes — Mehrunes Dagon, Boethiah and Molag Bal. I'm inclined on putting Padomay into the list, but I think he's more Chaotic Neutral in nature.
  • Member
    November 11

    Kodaav said: With the exception of the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim, I've never really played as a character in this allignment. To me, the plot to kill the emperor served as a means to revive the Dark Brotherhood, and this involved potentially pissing off the Thalmor, The Legion, and The Stormcloaks because all three factions needed him alive in some way. The Thalmor needed a puppet, the Legion needed him as a symbol of the Empire they are sworn to defend, and Ulfric needed him as a symbol of the Empire that fell from grace. With the Emperor out of the picture, all three factions essentially lose.

    Could you be persuaded that this is CN instead? While messing up everyone's plans could be seen as evil, it results in chaos more for the sake of chaos for me. I mean none of them are good or bad inherently, so its not like there's some agenda that needs to be stopped, its more like watching the world burn because you can, not because you need to. Maybe what I'm trying to say is that Evil seems more selfish to me, where as CN feels more like messing about with shit for the sake of it.

    KaiserSoSay said: Apologize in advance if this looks like a huge block of text. Got problems with my PC and I'm typing this on mobile.

    Hmmm, I'd almost argue that the opposite it true in terms of Types 1 and 2. Evil always seems to have personal motivations in my view, so they might side with the 'good' guys as a form of self preservation, even if it's not the most disruptive thing they could do. While Chaotic to me would mean they wouldn't, and would lean more towards mutually assured destruction. Bare in mind that I'm nackered so I might not've understood your types right, and if so sorry!

    I agree with your overall point though, and I like that different types of CE cover the different ranks of evil. Followers and leaders alike can share an alignment, just with subtle differences, and I'm not sure you could say that for every alignment so that's very interesting.

  • Member
    November 11

    I see CE as someone who's main purpose is to gain power (Evil) and will do absolutely anything to get it (Chaotic). It doesn't matter if they need to kill 1000 people to get what they want, they will do it if it benefits them.

  • Member
    November 15

    Ebonslayer said:

    I see CE as someone who's main purpose is to gain power (Evil) and will do absolutely anything to get it (Chaotic). It doesn't matter if they need to kill 1000 people to get what they want, they will do it if it benefits them.

    This is exactly how I view the alignment as well: power by any means necessary.

    I think the only character I've ever played that was chaotic evil was Mason's The Kingslayer. It was a fantastic build, but oddly enough, an alignment that I thought would be really liberating/exhilarating felt... a little flat. I was pretty surprised at this. Perhaps it's because I, personally, like to play characters that feel conflicted, and a pure CE character feels very little conflict for his or her actions (outside of what will be the most efficacious means to get to my desired ends--"Do I trip that old lady to get even with her son, or do I steal his only child?").

    CE makes for some fantastic villains and enemies in a story, though ;D

  • Member
    November 15

    By the way, Z, this has been a fantastic discussion series. Thanks for spearheading this, and thanks for all the insightful participants... great stuff! :D

  • Member
    November 15
    Chaotic Evil is less about destructive whackiness and more about what lies beneath those extreme examples: Freedom, and the power which allows one to freely exercise that freedom. The power of the individual, the power of the fittest, every man for himself, celebration of self-indulgence...Those would be the highlights of a truly Chaotic Evil character. The closest example of this in Skyrim, in my opinion, would be Miraak, who constantly struggled to break the shackles of servitude and dominate the world around him.
  • November 15
    That picture though...(refering to the one from the main page)
  • Member
    November 15

    Loopdiss said: That picture though...(refering to the one from the main page)

    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)