Skyrim Tips and Tricks » Discussions


Ordinator - T&T Desk

  • July 21

    Or something along those lines. This discussion is based around Enai Siaion's Ordinator mod, and seeing what we can do to

    a) Try and figure out what Tips and Tricks already posted in the group don't work with Ordinator and then see if we can get said tricks to work

    or 

    b) Work out new interesting tricks that can be accomplished with Ordinator's billion or so new perks (the first thing I'm personally going to look at is blessings and how awesome they can start getting).

    So if you have any ideas, about new interesting tricks or how to get around the fact that we don't have things like Necromage, and that Enai Siaion figured out that people like it when perks work (something that confuses Bethesda tot his day.) then come on in and drop in your Tips, Tricks or Guides on the mod. 

    Once a week (roughly) I'll also try and kind of promote an individual perk that someone has brought up as a main focus and try to encourage extra discussion that way

  • July 22

    So the first major Tip I'm going to at least talk about (and hopefully actually get to look into) is Shrine Blessings with Ordinator. Unfortunetly I'm not playing a character that delves far enough into Restoration to really be able to note everything (and Ordinator is somewhat infamous for having some specifics hidden so that you actually need to use the Creation Kit) so it's mostly going to be speculation on my part, or questions.

    There's a few perks that give various bonuses to Shrine Blessings (a few less than I thought, but still) and that can really turn them into powerful 'must-have' bonus rather than something that's mostly good for RP. The two major perks are Pilgram and Gods and Mortals. There are a few perks like In Thy Name that do extra things when you have a Shrine Blessing but that's rather minor so I won't be focusing on it at the moment. 

    Pilgram gives a 1% boost to all blessings per level of Restoration (doubling the benefits provided at Level 100)

    Gods and Mortals increases the duration of blessings by 50% and also gives you another powerful effect for each blessing (well you get an extra effect with the Divines at least, not any of the Daedric Shrines)

    Akatosh: Turn the Hourglass (twice a day, slows time when you get low on Health)

    Arkay: Requiem (burns and destroys reanimated undead and their owners)

    Dibella: Thrall of Passion (illusion is stronger and lasts forever vs the opposite sex)

    Julianos: Keeper of Teachings (nearby allies gain bonus Magicka and Magicka regen)

    Kynareth: Howling Wind (bonus Stamina regen for each nearby enemy) 

    Mara: Perfect Bond (spells cast on your spouse are much more effective) 

    Stendarr: Crusader's Shield (blocking absorbs Stamina and staggers the attacker) 

    Talos: The Talos Principle (chance to finish shout cooldown when enemy humanoids die nearby) 

    Zenithar: Spirit of Commerce (may trade with anyone) 

    Now I believe that all of these are passive abilities but there's really no reason why some of them couldn't be Powers (Requiem, Howling Wind and Crusader's Shield especially feel like they could be). The first thing I'd like to look at is whether or not Pilgram boosts Gods and Mortals, the potential around something like Perfect Bond being doubled (even if it was only a 10% boost) is just kind of insane but really when you take a look at all of them the only ones that probably aren't that great when boosted are Zenithar's and Akatosh's because I can't see them getting any boost. Just thinking of the insane regen that might be possible with Howling Wind + Pilgram is enough to make me want to get 90 Restoration on all my character from now on, no matter how much it doesn't fit. 

    On top of that, I'd love to test out how Imperious' Stones of Galen + Aurora's Ritual Stone + Pilgram would work out. The Ritual Stone (with SoG) makes blessings 4x as powerful but reduces their length to only 300 seconds. If all the mods really work as I imagine they do, then you'd get 450 seconds with Gods and Mortals with all effects being insanely effective. You'd get an 8 times boost to all effects at 100 Restoration, as long as that 4x blessing and the 100% extra both work and don't cancel each other out or just not work together or whatever.

     

  • Member
    July 22

    Holy crap, I don't use Ordinator but some of these buffs seem crazy powerful. Stendarr, Dibella and Talos especially could be game changing. And you say Restoration makes blessings even more powerful as well?! I kinda like blessings taking more of a forward role actually, in vanilla they're easily forgettable but with this they actually shape a character.

  • July 22

    Oh it's definitely awesome, there are just some insanely fun new perks like the Dwemer Autocanon which at it's most boosted can shoot at whatever your aiming your crosshair at for 60 seconds at any distance, oh and there are three of them (each shot would do 40 damage at 100 Smithing with every fifth shot doing 240 Shock Damage as well). There's just some really fun stuff there.

    Bah I have to focus on the blessings at the moment. I mean it does mostly depend on the power of the effects (I mean, the Talos effect is pretty useless if it's 1% chance) but they seem rightly insane to be honest. I'm kind of interested more in Mara than anyone else (A sentence I've never uttered), I'm just kind of imagining having Aela or someone running around with you and then boosting the everliving shit out of them, I'm sure there's plenty of stuff that can be done with Ordinator before even adding things like Apocolypse. 

  • July 22

    I've been delving pretty far into the change log and came across this fun fact about Restoration (I guess this is more my Restoration Admiration week) but I guess this is mostly looking at Warrior's Flame, with a bit of stuff about Warrior's Flame, Wheel of Life and whatever Afterglow ended up as (I think he's changed this perk)

    Fun fact: Afterglow, Crusader's Fire, Warrior's Flame and Wheel of Life are Restoration spells and therefore benefit from spell scaling (Restoration Mastery, Chalice of Tears)! 

    From what I can tell, Warrior's Flame can become just downright insane, I mean it's base form is restore 20 M and S for 5 seconds on allies, drain same from enemies but if it's effected by spell scaling (and I'm going to take a quick look and see exactly what that means, maybe the two perks that Enai mentioned have something specific about them). 

    So, Restoration Mastery gives a 50% boost at Level 100, which would (probably) boost the rate to 30 Magicka and Stamina Restored/Drained (but it might also boost the duration, or might only boost the duration).

    Chalice of Tears is more interesting, it would boost the damage by 15% which would be 23 Magicka and Stamina Restored/Drained (34 with Restoration Mastery) but also increases the duration by 50% meaning that you'd end up Restoring/Draining 23/34 Magicka and Stamina for 7 seconds leading to 161/238 drained/restored which is pretty insane.

    From what I can tell there's no reason that other effects (Fortify Restoration Potions, that Lighthouse Power) and anything that boosts either the duration or power of Restoration spells shouldn't have an even larger effect on the perk. It's quite possible that you could turn it into a truly powerful perk capable of filling upp just about any amount of Magicka/Stamina, or instantly draining enemies of their Magicka/Stamina. 

    Now here's where it could get even more fun. Ashes to Ashes and Sacred Flame both add Health into the mix at an even faster base rate than the Stamina/Magicka effects of the base perk. If (and they only wouldn't if they were made as seperate effects, but as far as I can logically tell they should all work in a similar manner to Respite, which is boosted by perks like Regeneration and Dual Casting so logically speaking I think that Ashes to Ashes and Sacred Flame should be boosted as well) they're boosted, then we're just getting into some rather insane territory. The largest possible amount of damage healed/dealt would be 51 damage over 7 seconds or 357 damage overs 7 seconds. But wait, that's not all folks. That's right, suprise attack with even more perks that boost Warrior's Flame. Eternal Flame doubles the duration (no need to freak out) meaning that it literally doubles our damage, draining and restoring.

    714 total damage dealt to undead sources

    714 Health restored to living allies

    476 Stamina/Magicka Drained/Restored to Enemies/Allies

    And the kicked of all of these insane effects. Apotheosis, which is a power that lets you use Warrior's Flame on all nearby enemies for 20 seconds...At the cost of 250 Magicka (and I say, who gives a flying F, your going to literally regenerate that within a second, with a whole lot to spare). Well I believe that what it means any enemy that gets close for 20 secondss will be hit by a single boosted Warrior's Flame, but it is possible that it boosts the duration on any enemy close to you, in that case then your going to get some awesome numbers.

    1020 damage dealt to Undead Enemies

    680 Magicka/Stamina drained from enemies

    That's insane enough from a single enemy and doesn't even take into consideration more than one enemy, other sources that boost Restoration Spells, or anythign like that. As you can see Warrior's Flame can actually be an insanely powerful perk if what Enai said back in what I assume is March/April (it's in the v910 portion, but that wasn't a full file from what I can tell so I don't know the date) holds true, and it doesn't entirely. Afterglow is no longer a perk, but other then that, who cares look at those numbers. 

     

  • July 22

    Well, I think I might make that Warrior's Flame section into an article, I mean, it's pretty complete at the moment and I'm just going to have to delve into looking at how vanilla items/powers/whatever could boost it further and then what Imperious might do (and no, I am not brining Apocolypse into the mix...that's just too insanity even for yours truly). 

    I hope this sort of thing helps, I will add the disclaimer that this is based purely off of Enai's descriptions and Change Log and hasn't technically been tested, so if anyone on PC knows how to test this sort of thing better then it'd be appreciated (I have no idea if it would show up in your Active Effects section, and can't properly test it on Xbox). 

  • July 24

    So the next obvious step is to work on Crusader's Fire as the final perk that's supposed to be effected by Restoration Boosts. If you aren't 100% sure what I'm on about, go check out the opening paragraph of my comment, 3 comments up, that'll explain it all fairly well. For a quick run down, according to Enai Siaion (the creator of Ordinator) Crusader's Fire should be effected by spell scaling including perks that boost both the effectiveness (damage, magnitude) and duration of the effects because it operates in a manner like an auto-cast spell. So I'm going to be delving into the theoretical probability that other boosts also apply, because...well why wouldn't they? And I'll be trying to show off that Crusader's Fire is super badass and can be boosted beyond all logic.

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    So let's start of simple, what do the two perks that Enai mentions do to Crusader's Fire. Actually, what does Crusader's Fire do? Well it has two main effects. First is that any foe within 30 feet that's effected by a Turn Undead spell or effect are burned for 10 points of (fire?) damage for 10 seconds, or 100 damage. The other effect is that all of your attacks and critical hits are boosted by 25% against any enemy effected by Turn Undead. So, I'm not entirely sure if the second effect would be boosted, but the first effect certainly would be. I'm going to start off with the assumption that only the first effect (Direct Damage) is boosted but then I'll throw in the other maths at the end for the heck of it.

    Right, so the two perks that are mentioned (Restoration Mastery and Chalice of Tears) would both be fairly effective. The first gives you a 0.5% boost per level of Restoration (meaning 50% at 100 Restoration) while the second gives a 15% boost to damage and 50% boost to duration. Combined the two perks would allow Crusader's Fire to do the following damage

    10 + (10*50%)  = 15 for 10 seconds

    15 + (15*15%) = 17.25 for 15 seconds or 258.75 damage to any enemy effected by Turn Undead effects within 30 feet. 

    And uhh, yeah so it isn't quite as insane as what can be done as Warrior's Flame even at this level, your doing roughly a third of the damage that can be achieved with WF over a longer period of time and only to  enemies that are effected by Turn Undead. I suppose that the same boosts that I examine in Ordinator Tip - Enhancing Warrior's Flame would be worth it (and you could probably start hitting that 1000 point) and I'll definitely look into it at some point in the next two days (probably tonight if I'm not still feeling terrible).

    Anyway, I promised maths that may mean less than nothing, so here it is. If the damage and critical strike percentage (25%) is boosted by the perks I mentioned just above then you'd end up with the massive following number. 

    25 + (25*50%) = 37.5%

    37.5 + (37.5*15%) = 43.125% boost to damage from attacks and critical strikes against enemeis effected by Crusader's Fire

    Now that is theoretically interesting. A 43% boost to damage isn't something to sniff at ever, and well...it sure would be interesting to see what that'd do (theoretically speaking of course) with all the boosts mentioned in the linked article. 

    Anyway, that's all for now. If it interests me I might continue my examination into the perk, but...honestly I'm still kind of blown away by what Warrior's Flame can do so...Hold up, I might have to take a look at Turn Undead perks from Ordinator and then get into Apocoylse. I'm just thinking, i Crusader's Fire does fire damage and you started getting Turn Undead spells with lower Fire Resistence effects, well then this could be quite potent. Or really anything that does damage + Turn Undead.

    Alright, consider me interested, and my search beginning. Fuck this is going to be a massive article again if I get around to it. 

  • July 24

    Ah, well I meant to just post a discussion on Crusader's Fire but it's turning out to be slightly more complex than I thought. The issue is that...well because I believe CF is really more of a Destruction (FIRE) effect than a Restoration one, it might be somewhat trickier to narrow down exactly what boosts it and what doesn't. I mean, a quick possible list is all Ordinator Fire Perks, Fortify Restoration Potions, Azhidal, Aurora - Standing Stones of Skyrim, Imperious - Races of Skyrim, Shalidor's Insights (Restoration). Now the tricky bit is just the Ordinator perks, because...well it's intense, you've got perks that activate for a few seconds, perks that reduce fire resistance that might be triggered twice because one of the perks sets the ground on fire (which burns them again after Crusader's Flame), you've got perks that have a small chance to activate and you've got perks that do damage based on health remaining. 

    Anyway, I'm having a lot of trouble just delving into the Fire Perks and haven't gotten started on the rest of it, but I'm not sure I really want to keep going. Honestly, even at max level Crusader's Fire just isn't as intersting as Warrior's Flame, or as powerful really. There are a few cool little things and it would definitely help make Turn Undead somewhat useful but...I don't know, I've already spent three hours going over my maths and I'm probably about 80% of the way through the first part (which is around 40% of the whole thing) and there are a few little things that I probably have to go over again and re-check because, well it's all complicated. 

    I mean, I'll be keeping all my notes and trying to finish them off but I might not post unless either anyone shows interest, I've got nothing better to do or I find something actually cool about the perk that makes it awesome enough that I share it. 

  • Member
    July 25

    Well do what's fun, Deebs, that's what is important. Yet also consider that you're treading new waters by and large. Ordinator is great and many of us have tried it, even had ideas on synergy or getting the best out of them for the perfect concept, but we're no where near as a community as close as we are to however many years knowing vanilla Skyrim's mechanics.

    That is to say, this is good stuff: to have someone who is learning it will then be an oracle for future projects. You mention the Talos blessing has a chanve to end the cooldown. With that blessing and the ones from the Speech tree, is there a way of determining the probability of eliminating cooldown if using this perk and those?

  • July 25

    Heh, I'll start off with the second bit and respond to the first later. I've been trying to figure this out for days Phil

    Short answer - I can't say for certain but I'd put it at around a... 60% chance to have a 3 second or 0 second cooldown on each Shout with just Gods and Mortals (Restoration) and Force Redoubled (Speech)

    Long Answer

    Sadly, the major thing stopping me from figuring any of it out is that I have no idea what the exact chance of The Talos Principle (Gods and Mortals boosted Talos Blessing) activating is. The change log is apparently the only place to find that information and it's vague. Honestly though, Gods and Mortals isn't going to do all that much unless it's something like a 10% chance to activate. Anything lower isn't going to be all that good when you just take a look at what a fully boosted Shrine of Talos + Speech Perks will do.

    First, is the fact that you've got two possible options with the Talos Shrine. The first is just boosting it with Pilgram and Gods and Mortals which allows you to have 40% shorter cooldowns for 12 hours along with whatever the chance of it having 0 cooldown is. Force Redoubled in Speech will then give all your shouts a 50% chance (or good enough in my opinion) to have a 3 second cooldown everytime you use them.

    The other option, is that I believe praying at a Shrine of Talos with Aurora + Imperious and grabbing that Stones of Galen Ritual Stone will actually give you either 80% or 160% reduction on Shout Cooldown (depending on how it works with Pilgram) for 450 seconds...At that point obviously the whole Shout Cooldown thing becomes kind of pointless, but it doesn't last as long. 

    So uhh, really you've just got so many options with the three mods to get really close to infinite shouts without any real need for exploiting the game. Then you can look at the other Speech Skills (Windborne is particularly awesome because it stacks) and you can start adding in effects like extra damage, movement speed, an AoE stagger on all shouts and then Dovahzulaan letting you use two shouts at the same time (cause you know...how awesome do you need to be.) once a day for 120 seconds.

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    Ah, sorry Phil, brain's not working all that well right now so I've got no idea what to say to the first chunk, all the encouragement? Just been here for 15 minutes trying to figure something out aand the word's won't flow.