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Writer’s Discussion: Popularity and Infamy

Tags: #TSC 
  • Member
    February 17
    TBH, I played around with the whole Chosen One shtick in AotQ. Ardolan is a Vestige, yes, making him superhuman (supermer?) in a way. But I make things interesting by having him weaknesses, such as the "absorbing souls" thing and, perhaps, being too protective of his friends. And I do plan on there being consequences for not having a soul. Also, he's not the "Main Hero"- he will never interact with the Prophet or Lyris or (directly) Molag Bal. Basically, I feel that you can have a "hero" type character, but he/she must be flawed somehow. Nobody's perfect, and that's something I try to keep I mind.
  • Member
    February 17

    I can think of one time I may have turned readers away, and that's when Leris went from dashing rogue to atheistic god killer. Kind of a big shift, certainly a contentious one. But in the end, it's all about that infamy. As long as you're not under contract to write a book that a certain audience is expecting. Like I doubt people would be happy to open a romantic airport novel and see that their favorite hunk Farkas has shacked up with Harkon to help bring an end to the tyranny of the sun. And while I'm sure Harkon has a very impressive spear collection that needs polishing, it would be a difficult transition to cope with. 

  • Member
    February 17

    1 For the writers of TSC, can you thing of three situations where you felt you could or indeed would turn readers away from your work over a decision you have made?

    Well I'm not sure if I've really had choices like that coming up yet. There was a bit of an issue with how graphical some of the nightmare scenes in Veils of Jhunal were but nothing a little warning won't solve xD. There has been a moment though where I went out to intentionally upset my readers in SoB, people were starting to forget Simon was supposed to be the bad guy, I solved it. Shut up the Piper-Simon shipper too xD.

    2 For the readers of TSC, what are the top three moments where a writer’s path has caused you to cringe, shy away or even shake your head over the writer’s decisions?

    I'll be honest I don't think I've had any, at least not here on this site. I've read books where the ending left me a bit unsatisfied, but I think that's about it. If the choice doesn't harm the overall narrative by making it absurd I'm totally ok with the choice tha author makes. I do remember being utterly dissapointed while reading Straag Rod when the Crystal-like-law passage was over, does that count?

    3 There’s no right or wrong answer here, just opinions. If a writer knows a certain plot, or decision could or would, make their story unpopular, YET he/she feels the direction is the way they wish to go….

    Here's the thing, if you as a writer are having doubts about something like this, consider one thing clearly: does the decision you want to make enhance the overarching narrative of your work or the progression of a character for example? If the answer is yes, then do not change a thing.

    If you discover the decision would have no other use than to spite your readers, try to look if you can't see if changing things will allow it to fit in the scenario mentioned above. Spiting your readers is a bad idea... Unless you're me and you're writing about an immortal psychopathic ex-mob boss, then you can do as you wish xD

    Overall just write what you want to write about, especially on the TV. We're all among hobbyists here (well mostly anyway) so should we really care that one of our 6 active readers might not like something? I think not.

  • Member
    February 17

    Legion said:

    As long as you're not under contract to write a book that a certain audience is expecting. Like I doubt people would be happy to open a romantic airport novel and see that their favorite hunk Farkas has shacked up with Harkon to help bring an end to the tyranny of the sun. And while I'm sure Harkon has a very impressive spear collection that needs polishing, it would be a difficult transition to cope with. 

    Exactly, not to mention that Infamy might add a bit of spice to your narrative. As long as the choices aren't too absurd (great example with Farkas suddenly opting for a spear polishing career at castle Volkihar btw) infamy can do great things for your story: just look at George RR "the genocide" Martin.

  • Member
    February 17

     

    Awwwooo... cough! choke...*Wheezing breath...

    Khajiit fur ball....... Sorry about that....

    What was I going to say?

    Ahh yes.

    As a few have pointed out it is hard to avoid the whole 'The chosen one' to a point but the real big trouble with Skyrim and games like this is it does fill one's wolf spirit with ego. In the game you get to rule everything except being king and I expect there's a mod for that somewhere. Then again if we paws for a moment; sometimes it works by allowing the central char to be built up to a degree because we as the writer knows they will lose those abilities later down the line. I know for a fact that my char Sotek will face a few tough moments when he has to hand over the reigns of certain abilities. 

    Unless the abilities are played up with the char then their losses won't be so significant. 

    Then again, being the chosen one can be a great opportunity to throw a curve ball. Chosen one? Chosen for what?

  • February 17
    That's the question. Chosen for what? Fate and destiny is a clutch for us writers you know? Fate allows us writers to steer a character to a path they really don't want to follow or wouldn't follow otherwise. It is a tool, but tool that has to be used wisely. It can be your doom but it can be your helper too, it just all depends on how you use it.
  • Member
    February 17

    Karver the Lorc said: That's the question. Chosen for what? Fate and destiny is a clutch for us writers you know? Fate allows us writers to steer a character to a path they really don't want to follow or wouldn't follow otherwise. It is a tool, but tool that has to be used wisely. It can be your doom but it can be your helper too, it just all depends on how you use it.

    To be honest, I kinda hate stories that focuses about fate and destiny. Yes I know it's hard to avoid that in TES, but I justify that fact because the Daedra and Aedra are jerks and prefer to let mortals clean up their messes.

  • Member
    February 19

    Yo! I'm late to the discussion! :D

    So, I'm back, and going to start writing again. To add a few of my thoughts to here...

    What turns me off is what others have mentioned, plus one. Intense mental conversation. Now, I'm not saying I just really hate telepathic people. Okay, here's what I find okay and not-okay (not trying to be like "don't do this people!" Just saying what I find weird.) Two characters look at each other and decide to not fight. Ok! Two characters look at each other and for 5 pages (At least, it feels like 5 pages) they engage in making a peace treaty so they don't have to talk at all after they are done staring at each other for half an hour in the middle of battle without being attack. Not ok! All without any actual magic mind communication, just "reading the body language or something. This sounds oddly specific but it's a thing I've encountered, not on here, but with several books. Also, another turn-off is convoluted and cringe-worthy plots. I must admit that I was heading for one of those, but I'm going to cut it down from here on with the... well, I planted some seeds for a plot that I now see no one would enjoy. So, just going to cut out a few minor details (minor as of right now) and write with that in mind. 

    Wow, I wrote a lot-ish. Well, I'm done. Thanks for reading this.

     

  • February 20

    I am new enough that I can't cite three examples, but I can cite one. I am very intent on not writing a self insert, but Pethara is similar to me in that she is a total dick, and I am too. I struggled a bit to keep her likable, because we'll see a lot of her, assuming I follow this story to completion, but at the end of the day, I won't change my character or or retcon her early actions in order to make her more likable. That said, blatent Mary Sues can sometimes be funny enough (think my immortal) to read, though they suck, but usually they're not worth people's time.

  • Member
    February 25

     Lyall

    Also, another turn-off is convoluted and cringe-worthy plots.

     How best to avoid theses? How indeed...

    The big trouble with writers and cringe worthy plots is that they seem a great idea at the time. Add to this the writer’s enthusiasm in what they do and all too easily things slip by. I too have walked this path and came close to as few 'What the hell was he thinking' moments. Fortunately for us all, we are in a rather unique position. 

    We at TV have each other to fall upon and we have numerous discussions where we can ask or debate possible plot situations where we may stray too far. 

    One golden line I try to adhere to is asking myself; “Is this possible in the TES universe”.

    Sophie

    I struggled a bit to keep her likable, because we'll see a lot of her, assuming I follow this story to completion, but at the end of the day, I won't change my character or or retcon her early actions in order to make her more likable.

    For some bizzare reason I thought about 'Wreck It Ralph'. Just because I'm a bad guy, doesn't mean I'm a 'bad guy'. 

    In my opinion main characters should have flaws.They shouldn't be the perfect Mary Sue who has all the answers and abilities to save the day so the fact that Pethara is as you say 'a dick' then thi sis one such flaw. Often we see films and read stories where there is an unlikable character but theygrow over time and as they learn then so too does the reader.