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WiP: Deeb's Project Thing

Tags: #Dragonborn1721  #Fate/Elder Scrolls  #Deebs Project Thing 
  • July 12, 2017

    Right, so at the moment this is going to be a multi-group project I think...Some of it fits in the CB Group, other chunks could arguably be placed in the MC, Roleplaying Group and Forums. So yeah, I also don't have a really good name othe than Project: Fate/Elder Scrolls (cause, it's a bit of a crossover-y thing between the universe of Type Moon, mostly known for the Fate series and good ole Elder Scolls). I'm going to be going into a whole bunch of information and background information on the Type Moon universe, which you know is fine if you want all that but I'm going to give you the run down right here. And anything bold in these big walls of text is important stuff you should read if your interested but not that interested in reading three billion words by the end of this. 

    Legendary Figures of TES History are summoned to fight in a big war under one of seven classes with awesome powers and weapons that are both lore-friendly and slightly unfriendly towards Lore. These classes use Type Moon mechanics, but will be explained in a way that makes sense.

    Big Wall-o-Text/Type Moon Basic Information:

    For those who haven't had any experience with the Fate series I'll give you a quick run down. Oh and by a quick run down, I mean quick for me which means I think it'll be contained within three paragraphs but I'll sum it up even more below that.

    The Fate series is based around the Holy Grail Wars, events in time  (or sometimes not in time and in AI worlds and shit but that's about as important to this builda as the 9th Era in TES Lore) that revolve around 7 Masters fighting for the right to win a single wish from the Holy Grail. These masters summon Servants or Heroic Spirits to fight for the Holy Grail, and basically slaughter each other in an attempt to win a wish. Now, to be fair that wish can be anything, the most common and original wish is to reach the Akasha Records which is supposed to be a collection of literally all knowledge ever (which you know, that's pretty awesome) which will also theoretically give whoever finds it unlimited power. I think there's a possibility of it including all knowledge in all of time (Past, Present and Future) as well as other timelines so that shit is insane. Anyway, the point is this wish from the Holy Grail can literally do just about anything, and the fight is kind of worth it. To make it all interesting, and originally I believe to make sure the Masters weren't all killed, the Masters all get to summon a Servant that is almost always a Heroic Spirit.

    Heroic Spirits, are basically a kind of... preserved copy of all heroes, villians and other extrodinary people in history. People like Alexander the Great, Hercules, King Arthur and Lancelot can all be summoned as super magical beings of badass (because it's Anime, plus most of them really do have legends based around magic or insanely powerful weapons) under one of seven classes; Archer, Assassin, Berserker, Caster, Lancer, Rider and Saber. 

    There, that was pretty alright in my opinion. You can skip most of the first paragraph because that's a teeny bit of background lore (and yeah...I do mean a tiny bit, I didn't go into any depth on what Magi are, Noble Phantasms, skills, abilities, etc. There's a lot of shit that I could and may delve into). But that last bit, about the classes and Heroic Spirits is crucial to this project. My idea, is simply (HAH) to create Heroic Spirits out of the legendary figures of TES History, through Character Builds, Roleplaying Profiles, uhh...Other stuff that might go into the Forums or something because it's quasi/fake Lore. Anyway, it's a momentous project and basically what I want to actually abandon everything I was working on except Hosting and that real life stuff but it's boring. 

    The 'Classes' of Heroic Spirits

    The Saber Class is one of the three 'Knight Classes' and tends to be made up of Heroic Spirits that were, well famous swordsmen, and typically have high base stats and tend to have powerful weapons at their disposal. Most of them tend to rely primarily on a single weapon, in Fate the best example is King Arthur who has the sword Excalibur as their main weapon, but almost always they have a weapon that is heavily connected with their legend in some way. Most people consider the Saber Class to be the most powerful at least purely when looking at their stats. They have the class skills of Riding and Magic Resistance (which they share with Rider and Lancer classes respectively)

    In TES, we have the issue of not all heroes being associated with a weapon. And since Archers, Sabers and Lancers are all mostly defined by their weapons, I'll be trying out some alternative methods of judging heroes and giving them weapons that I think fit part of their legends. Really Saber will be summed up more as Knight or Warrior, but any Redguard will be able to qualify, well unless they're famous for being shitty at swordfighting.

    The Lancer Class is the second 'Knight Class'. Most Lancers are known for having an incomparable speed or agility (both really), for having high Magic Resistance and for specializing in hit and run tactics. They're mostly diferent from a Saber (though many Type Moon Sabers and Lancers qualify for the other class) because they tend to be a bit more lacking in pure strength, not enough that they can't engage them in close combat but enough that they usually don't overpower the opposing Saber Servant. Lancers have the Magic Resistance class skill and generally have Battle Continuation (which lets them fight when injured or for a long time) as well.

    Lancers are a little different in TES because SPEARS ARE RARE and I'm going to be relying on other qualities. At the moment this will be a reliance on hit-and-run tactics (which means the Bosmer, Argonians and Khajiit are more often Lancers than Imperials, Orc or Nords who tend to be more... brute forcey), lighter armour or really anything that makes you think of speed.

    The Archer Class is the final 'Knight Class' and one of the two main ranged servant classes (with Caster being the other). Archers, I hope quite obviously rely on bows as their main weapon. Other then that, Archers also are usually in possession of the Independent Action skill (3) and posess powerful Noble Phantasms that are occasionally just overpowered as all hell. 

    Luckily we get three qualifiers here. I'm going to give the Archer class to anyone known for the Bow (Again very few), aren't as associated with armies or rulers or anything like that (Independent Action) or are known to posess weapons that are supposed to be insanely powerful based on Lore. Something like say...Wabbajack would count I suppose. 

    The Caster Class is the most diverse class, and can pretty much be anyone who is exceptionally skilled with magic. In TES this is probably going to be one of the most common classes because you've got people like Divayth Fyr, Neloth, Shalidor, etc. who are all known as insanely powerful magiciains and often have insane feats to back that up. Not much else to say, their mages that are super powerful and will be an easy class to replicate. They have class skills that are also a little more diverse than the other classes (last longer, resist magic, very basic stuff) with some form of Item Creation and Territory Creation, which is the act of creating magical barriers to create what is usually refered to as a Temple, where they're insanely powerful and easily capable of going toe to toe with any servant that doesn't flat out overpower them.

    The Berserker Class is one of the most interesting in my opinion. While the Saber Class is said to be the strongest, that's more jTust because their so well rounded that they don't really have weaknesses. The Berserker Class is what it sounds like, any Heroic Spirit that is known for flying into a rage, and they have the ability to sacrifice most of their intelligence or tactical skill for an insane boost in power. Theoretically I don't believe they need to be 'Berserk' at all times and can turn it on and off, but that depends on a  lot of stuff, but for now we'll say that's how it works in TES. Again this should be fairly easy.

    All Nords and Orcs are going to have the ability to be summoned as a Berserker, why...well it's fitting and sometimes an easy way to do things.

    The Assassin Class is, you know what they're Assassins... I don't see why I need to say much more than that, they do Assassin-y things and are often the weakest Servants in a direct fight. They have the Presence Concealment class skill which, well coneals their presence to a certain degree, almost taking it to the level of invisibility in some cases.

    The Rider Class is the final class, and those in it are often associated with...well riding into combat in some manner (normally a Horse or Chariot but Ships can also count here). Like the Archer Class, Riders are often known for having powerful Noble Phantasms, usually based around their mount in some manner (i you had a magical horse like Shadowmere you might be able to summon it). Obviously they all have the Riding class skill but they often also have Magic Resistance.

    I don't know how easy this will be to sort people into. I can't remember a lot of mounted soldiers that became famous for their mounts in TES Lore, so I might just make shit up sometimes because...well you need to sometimes damnit.

    Heroic Spirits - TES Version

    So while this is neither a confirmed or a complete list, this is basically the first bunch of poeple I could think of off the top of my head (yeah it's not too shabby). As you can tell I haven't included any of the PC Heroes in this list, because that's just not plausible without me just saying All Classes are possible, which is boring and I've only given one guy 6 Classes as a maximum, and he's Divayth Fyr who I presume can just do whatever the fuck he wants cause, well he's just been around for so long that he'd get bored of just being an awesome mage and would've picked up a weapon. 

    Basically I plan on two of each class, with at least one member of the 10 races being present (at the moment it's heavily full of Nords, Dunmer and Imperials isn't it...). So that'll end up as 14 fully fleshed out characters by the end of this project, with 21 being a possibility if I can't narrow it down to 14. At the mmoment I'm definitely taking Morihaus, Tiber Septim, Shalidor, Martin andCamoran the Usurper. And yeah, I'm really thinking of the idea of Berserker Shalidor to play around with a magical berserker...holy shit that just seems fun. Anyway, that gives me a good amount of coverage classwise, racewise and well there's plenty of real lore on these guys so I'll be able to twist them easily. 

    Here are just a few potential Heroic Spirits and their classes if you were interested in my thoughts.

    Tiber Septim (Lancer, Saber or Berserker) - Confirmed, will play as Saber (and I'll be sticking with the greatest Fate twist of all)

    Shalidor (Caster or Berserker) - Confirmed, will play as Beserker...probably

    Martin Septim (Caster)Confirmed, will play as Caster

    Miraak (Caster, Saber or Berserker)

    Morihaus (Rider or Lancer) - Confirmed, will play as Rider

    Pelinal Whitestrake (Berserker, Saber or Rider)

    Almalexia (Caster or Saber)

    Alessia (Caster or Saber)

    Vivec (Lancer or Archer)

    Sotha Sil (Caster or Assassin)

    Divayth Fyr (Caster, Assassin or Archer)

    Camoran the Usurper (Caster or Assassin)

    Reman Cyrodiil (Saber or Archer)

    The Grey Fox (Assassin)

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Confirmed Servants

    First Archer - Morihaus

    First Assassin - LISTENER

    First Beserker - Almalexia? 

    First Caster - Martin Septim

    First Lancer - Erur-Dan

    First Rider - Alessia :P

    First Saber - Reman Cyrodiil

    Definitions and Whatnot:

    Noble Phantasms are probably the biggest thing that requires explanation, and naturally is equivelent to explaining the basics of the Tower Stones of TES Lore to people that might not have ever played TES, let alone read any of the Lore. It's both simple and difficult to explain, and the further I go the harder it gets for me to explain it.

    In their most basic forms, a Noble Phantasm is something that best represents the legend of a hero, and creates the basis for their most powerful weapon, skill or...gee concept even at times.Most of the time, Noble Phantasms are weapons of some sort, which in TES would mostly be artifacts. Morihaus possesing the Lord's Mail and it being entertwined with who he was means that he could possess the Lord's Mail as an extremely powerful set of armour. 

    Then you have ability based Noble Phantasms, which have such a wide range of possibilites that I can't even think of every example but here's a potential possibility. If Mankar Camoran (From Oblivion) was summoned as a servant I'd probably have him be a Caster and involve Paradise in his arsenal as a Noble Phantasm. What could he do with it? Well I don't know, maybe he can summon Daedric Spirits through it as minions, maybe he can bring you there temporarily or maybe it takes form as some sort of spell. That would be a definition of an Ability Based Noble Phantasm that isn't as simple as just being a weapon or shield or something.

    The final (well probably not) form that is important is a Conceptual Noble Phantasm, which is where the concept or someone or something is so integral to a heroes legend that it forms...something that the Hero can use. Now if that makes sense, good, that's excellent because it barely does to me at times. Actually there's a really simple example, or at least the first half of an example, no idea how it would effect the hero. Think about the link between Tiber Septim, the Empire or Tiber Septim and the concept of Dragonborn. Both are titles or creations or whatever so closely linked to who Tiber Septim is that they would empower his Heroic Spirit in some manner. Maybe he gains a skill or an ability, or somehow gains an item that best defines the Dragonborn as a concept. The Conceptual Phantasms (which really is just me shortening the whole thing) are just basically the idea that 'Hey this can be just about anything' and I probably got some of it wrong to.

    Stats and Skills for Heroic Spirits is a fairly important but basic idea. Skills are, more along the lines of passive abilities like Magic Resistance which gives the Servent an edge in combat but are usually fairly standard rather than unique. The most common sort of skill are the class skills, which are simply skills that all members of that class possess to an extent unless there are other factors that override them (which is rare), other then that there are personal skills which are skills that a particular Heroic Spirit has/had that makes them, well a bit more unqiue. 

    Stats are also pretty basic, with Strength, Endurance, Agility, Mana (Magic), Luck and Noble Phantasm (the strength of their Noble Phantasms) and ranked from E to EX (normally E to A with the occasional Heroic Spirit either being broken and having EX ranks in something, or more commonly having a Noble Phantasm that allows them to defy all rules and gain EX stats) which E being either on par with an average human or just above them and EX basically being broken as all shit. I'm probably not going to naturally give anyone stats that delve into EX territory unless there's a really massive downside (like weakening all stats afterwards) but EX ranked Noble Phantasms are probably going to be slightly more common than the other stats having that high of a rank.

    Reality Marbles aren't really supposed to be all that common, especially for mortals of any kind to be able to create but..eh they're just so badass and it isn't all that uncommon for Heroic Spirits to be able to manifest them. Reality Marbles are essentially a reality that the owner believes in to such an extent that they can layer it over the Real World and turn their reality into the only reality that can be seen. Or at least, that's kind of how I take it, basically think of it as a Mastery of Alteration and Illusion (in TES terms) that allows a person to essentially create a real illusion in a certain location, and usually gives them some sort of power they can normally use. 

    Content So Far

    WiP Character Build: Rider (Morihaus)This is the first build that I started but I scrapped it pretty quickly and needed to restart planning it. 

    Profile: Lilia, Master of Rider - A companion piece to Rider's build, that focuses on his Master, Lilia Marich and her life before the Holy Grail War.

    WiP Character Build: Caster (Martin Septim)I'm currently writing and playtesting this build, it's currently at Level 28 which is around half way through. 

    Fate/Elder Scrolls - A (currently) two chapter story that I'm planning on working on throughout this project's life span.

    Notes and Thoughts:

    Right, there we go, the first major chunk/explanation done. I'm going to be polishing this, seperating it into a good dozen different discussions over time and basically really making it seem like a massive ass project with links flying everywhere, cool images and banners (all artistically designed by yours truly). I don't expect this to be something...easy or quick, and honestly barely expect it to be something that other people really get into. This project has the potential to either be too large for most people to read (14/21 builds with pages worth of other information to read) or at the very least be a little difficult to get into if you aren't a Type Moon fan who's got a passing (or above passing) familiarity with Fate/Stay Night, Fate Zero, Fate/Extella and a bit of the deeper mechanics of the world. 

    As another fair warning, I'm no expert on the Lore of Type Moon, Fate, whatever you want to call it. I'm probably going to get some stuff wrong at points, and some stuff is my own definitions for things or ideas that work better if I say them in a different way. So yeah, if you know more TES or Type Moon lore than me and want to point out a mistake I'm 10000% down for that (yep, added an extra two zeroes, totally on purpose)

    Anyway, hopefully I make the end product something that can draw in and entertain everyone 

  • Member
    July 12, 2017

    Blimey DB, this is massive even by your standards, and thats saying something :P

    I've never even heard of Type Moon or the Fate series, but a cursory glance at the setting and the fact that you're using unique fantasy classes instantly makes me interested. I'm not sure if I can be much help as my lore knowledge is nothing to write home about, but I'll be sure to way in on the discussion some way or another.

  • July 13, 2017

    Urgh, sorry this is so late Zonn but I haven't been able to connect to the site for most of today. Heh, it definitely is fairly large and at the moment I'm actually rather confident that I'll be able to complete it (as opposed to most of my other larger projects which I end up stopping after a few months), I've already written two of the basic WiP's up (Morihaus and Martin) and started playing Morihaus in a bit of a different wat to how I normally play builds, which I'll admiit is making it somewhat more enjoyable than normal.

    Thanks for the support Zonn, and there'll be plenty of upcoming stuff that I could use input and advice on that don't require tonnes of Lore (and really, sometimes it might be more helpful not to know all of Lore :P) so, I'll greatly appreciate any help that's given over the next...year? Eh, who really knows :D

  • Member
    July 13, 2017

    DB, this is fcking awesome 

  • July 19, 2017

    Thanks Chris, I can't find where you posted at this minute in time but I did like the sound of your idea about making builds for the actual Fate Servants. I'd especially be up for seeing Berserker (Hercules) as a kind of multi-path build showing off each of his class options (or at least Archer, Berserker and Saber). 

    On a less related note, I've got Vivec up for anyone that hasn't seen it, but I might have had an even more awesome idea with him kind of. Instead of giving him the Lancer class I thought about essentially creating the Gilgamesh of these seven servants and introduing ALMSIVI as a Heroic Spirit. A blend between Almalexia, Sotha Sil and Vivec in one build as a super powered false-god/saint sort of situation would just be awesome and is really hitting me in the RP part of my brain. Just the idea of how powerful and badass it could be...Maybe they could be a kind of 8th Servant under a different class (like Ruler...or Shielder, or Avenger...ooh damn that'd be badass, maybe a kind of corrupted.) anyway, let me think on that because there are so many ideas that I've got at the moment.

    However that would leave me down a Lancer and there isn't really anyone that I can think of that would fit a suitable role at the moment. Chris mentioned the Snow Prince but I was kind of hoping that maybe a Khajiit, Argonian or Orc could fit in...dunno, I'll have to browse again, but man I hate that spears are so rare in TES lore. 

  • July 19, 2017

    So I've made a few decisions. I'm going to be going with Erur-Dan as my Lancer unless I can find someone a little bit more suited to the role. Honestly he interests me and seems to hold a fair amount of power within his legend, and my current idea is that he gains huge bonuses when fighting against Imperial or Tribunal based enemies (meaning that even though he might not be as powerful as people like Tiber Septim and ALMSIVI, he can defeat them in a one-on-one fight because of the effect his legend has on the fight). 

    Yes, he's going to be rather interesting to write about. On the same scale, I will now be kicking out Vivec from my roster and trying to work in Erur-Dan as a rather interesting magic based Lancer rather a fist based one (which was a flawed concept really, not entirely happy with the idea). If we've got Lancer as an Arcane/Melee fighter and Caster (Martin Septim) as a Divine Caster then we still do have enough variety even with two magic-based Servants. Saber, Rider, Berserker, Archer and Assassin are all rather easy to do without much magic (well after I figure out who Assassin should be. I was thinking of going with something rather similar to the main Fate Assassin and making it Listener, basically a slightly more generic class that represents the Dark Brotherhood as a legend itself rather than an individual. It'll allow me a bit more freedom, and let me do some really interesting things).

    Anyway, that's all. Consider Vivec dead in the next...when I get around to it and Erur-Dan Lance of Magic added to the roster ;D

  • Member
    July 19, 2017

    Dragonborn1921 said:

    Thanks Chris, I can't find where you posted at this minute in time but I did like the sound of your idea about making builds for the actual Fate Servants. I'd especially be up for seeing Berserker (Hercules) as a kind of multi-path build showing off each of his class options (or at least Archer, Berserker and Saber). 

    On a less related note, I've got Vivec up for anyone that hasn't seen it, but I might have had an even more awesome idea with him kind of. Instead of giving him the Lancer class I thought about essentially creating the Gilgamesh of these seven servants and introduing ALMSIVI as a Heroic Spirit. A blend between Almalexia, Sotha Sil and Vivec in one build as a super powered false-god/saint sort of situation would just be awesome and is really hitting me in the RP part of my brain. Just the idea of how powerful and badass it could be...Maybe they could be a kind of 8th Servant under a different class (like Ruler...or Shielder, or Avenger...ooh damn that'd be badass, maybe a kind of corrupted.) anyway, let me think on that because there are so many ideas that I've got at the moment.

    However that would leave me down a Lancer and there isn't really anyone that I can think of that would fit a suitable role at the moment. Chris mentioned the Snow Prince but I was kind of hoping that maybe a Khajiit, Argonian or Orc could fit in...dunno, I'll have to browse again, but man I hate that spears are so rare in TES lore. 

    That could work. I DID do a few playthroughs of Berserker Hercules. Heck, even did one for Avenger 

  • Member
    August 6, 2017

    You defo need some pictures on here, asap. Consider putting one together that has like pictures of all the classes in a line like this.

    It is very interesting tho, and while I know shit about fate, I consider myself to be fairly ok at Skyrim's mechanics so if you need some help with realising some skills and whatnot, defo pm me. I'd be very happy to help with that.

      I noted that some of your builds have their pictures not aligned correctly with the text. You can use a white border around the pictures to create some space between them. Like this:

  • August 6, 2017

    Hmm, oh right I haven't added the pictures in yet. Honestly at the moment I'm more worried about actually finalizing the choices for the characters, writing the story and builds, playing the builds (doing quick artwork for all of that) and a few other things that I'm not too worried about prettying up something that I might be deleting soon. If it was something that was a bit more set in stone then I'd do it instantly but at the end of the day this is you know, just a temporary post that I'm updating daily and some of the images might not fit with the style or the content or half a dozen other things.

    I do have a system for banners with this project so I could probably get a few up soon if it is an issue but if I did think it was you know seperated enough that it was relatively easy to read through.

  • September 15, 2017

    So I haven't been firmly working on this project for a number of reasons, with the main one just being that I was stuck on Rider for a little bit and of course I don't have access to the Xbox I was using at the moment. I am currently playing Berserker on PS4 just to get a bit of a feel for how he would function (Destruction + Unarmed) and I think that there's a lot that can be done once I get to Ordinator. I'm just not sure how I'll end up levelling Light Armour (since I don't think fighting Unarmed works).

    Anyway, I'll test it on PS4 just as a concept run to see if it works and maybe end up trying a few other classes. Maybe work on Archer but I won't actually post any builds for them until I can run my full Ordinator based mod set.