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WIP Character Build The Rogue Thalmor Blood Mage

  • May 20, 2017

    The Rogue Thalmor Blood Mage


    So this is a pretty rough outline of a build idea I have had for a pretty good while.  I was about to abondon the idea and was in the process of posting this build idea in the Workshop Idea Dropbox when I had a thought which brought the build back to life and into the fairly rough form it is here.  Please let me know any ideas or suggestions you have for the build.  They are always appreciated!

     

     

    Introduction

    I have always had a hard time using necromancy in Skyrim because it just doesn’t feel dark enough.  You are manipulating the forces of life to raise the dead, but it uses Magicka, the same thing used to fuel holy magic like Restoration.  Raising the dead has always seemed like the kind of dark magic that would require you to sacrifice some of your own life-force so I set out to achieve this effect using the Equilibrium spell and no magicka regen to create a true blood mage.  Add in Alchemy, some Illusion and roleplaying a Rogue Thalmor and the result is a very satisfying combination of a necromancy/nightblade build.

     

    Backstory/Quest & Missions Section

    This is still a work in progress but the general idea is you are a rogue Thalmor agent.  Because of your interest in blood magic and fairly brutal tactics, the Thalmor have sent you to execution at Helgen.  After escaping Helgen you will continue your pursuit of power and despite being a rogue agent, you will still work in Skyrim to weaken the Empire and further the position of the Dominion due to your hatred of Talos and the empire he built.  joining the College of Winterhold to ensure it does not pose a threat and destroy Arcano who is claimed to have also gone rogue, and infiltrating Dark Brotherhood to ensure they contine working in Skyrim executing key persons of importance in the Empire.  Lastly and most importantly, you will ensure the civil war continues.  As you continue working in Skyrim you will encounter the spell Equilibrium and be drawn to blood magic.  After much study you decide to complete the blood mage ritual at the Atronach stone and being a true blood mage.

     

    The Build

    Race: High Elf – Being this is a Thalmor build, choosing a High Elf is pretty obvious.  Plus, theif bonus to Magicka eliminates the need for any investment in Magicka from level ups.

    Morality: Grey/Justifiable Evil.  Grey at first and will transition into justifiable evil as blood magic is adopted.  Justifiable evil means the build will hold to original cause of pursuing power and furthering the Dominion's position in Skyrim but methods will become more ruthless and evil as the build progresses.

    Stone: Thief >>>> Advanced Atronach – This was made famous in Mason’s Obsidian Sentinel and is the core mechanic of the build.  This is achieved through the “Blood Mage Ritual” which is explained below.

    Stats: All Health – Because this build relies on blood magic a deep pool of health is needed to fuel spells.  Plus, between the Advanced Atronach Stone and High Elf’s starting bonus to magicka the build will wind up with 250 magicka without any investment which is enough to cast the required spells.

     

    Major skills:

    Conjuration – This is your main source of damage outside backstabs.  Early game you will use strictly atronachs but once the Blood Mage Ritual has been performed you will switch to necromancy since you can no longer summon atronachs.

    Sneak – You rely on the element of surprise for success when facing seemlying impossible odds.

    Alchemy - You have learned to fuel your blood magic with specially brewed concoctions, starting with the blood mage ritual perfumed at the Atronach Stone

    Destruction: You will almost exclusively use the Flames spell due to it's damage/magicka efficiency and thanks to the Augmented Flames perks, Aspect of Terror bonus and Fortify Destruction Potions this spell will be viable end game and a source of additional damage.

      

    Minor skills:

    Illusion – Your Altmer blood grants you an affinity for this school, but upon your discovery of blood magic you discover the true dark power of this school

    One handed: While your mind and magic are your primary weapons, you keep a dagger hidden away for those times when they just aren’t enough.  (this only has a couple perks to boost damage of backstabs with your dagger, in open combat your dagger mainly works as a carrier for your poisons)

     

     

    Spells: Equilibrium, Muffle, Fury/Frenzy, Raise Dead spells, Flames,

    Shouts: Slow Time, Whirlwind Sprint, Aura Whisper, Marked for Death (dragons)

     

    Gear

    Head – Shrouded Hood (only with Shrouded Armor)

    Body – Hooded thalmor robes (acquired right out of cave by turning left at sign and following dirt path to shrine of talos) and Shrouded Armor (for low profile missions and stormcloak controlled zones/cities where you need to keep your previous Thalmor identity hidden)

    Hands – Shrouded Gloves >>>> Ancient Shrouded Gloves

    Feet – Shrouded Boots >>>> Ancient Shrouded Boots

    Necklace: Purchase Fortify Conjuration Necklace (need 17% reduction to cast dead thrall with full magicka bar)

    Ring – Purchase Fortify Health Ring

    Weapons: early game: bound sword (since it grants a lot of exp it helps level conjuration) mid - late game: best possible dagger with strong absorb health or magicka enchantment (preferably absorb 20+ pts)

     

     

    Blood Mage Ritual

    After much study you learned the ancient Blood Mage Ritual.  It grants you the power to absorb all magic used against you and deepens your magicka pool but at the cost of your ability to summon atronachs and regenerate your own magicka thus requiring your spells be powered by your own blood.

     (Will add explanation of mechanics here)

    The 100% spell absorption is pretty overpowered since it grants total immunity to magic.  However, since most of this builds time is spent in stealth this isn’t such an issue and this immunity to magic is a wonderful blessing in Beast Form since it becomes squishier at higher levels.

    Another part of making this Ritual feel significant is I did not use Fury/Frenzy spells until I had completed this Ritual and I timed the acquisition of the Quiet Casting perk to happen when I did this Ritual between level 20 and 25.  This made the Ritual feel very significant impactful on gameplay since my shouts and spells became quiet and I gained access to the Fury/Frenzy spells upon completing this Ritual.

     

    Anticipated Gameplay - (build still in early stages so this could changes significantly)

    This build is very much a glass cannon type build.  Success depends on getting the first strike to raise a body to tank for you.  Therefore, this build should primarily exist in the shadows.

    Early Game - Basically a sneaky necromancer so you will use the Muffle spell to perform backstabs and then raise the dead body to tank while you either continue sneaking around enemies or use Flames spell to burn enemies attacking you undead minion.  The only illusion spell you will use early game is the Muffle spell.  The mind control spells will not be used until the Blood Mage Ritual is performed.

    Mid Game - This is where the transition to blood magic should occur and you will begin using silent shouts and illusion mind control spells to supplement your combat style.  Most battles will involve using the Fury spell or a backstab to generate a dead body which you will then raise with blood magic.  

     

     

    So that is a very rough draft of what is in progress.  The build is around level 23 and I just executed the Blood Mage Ritual.  Gameplay is alot of fun and I am excited to see how the silent shouts and illusion spells will add to/change the build.

     

  • Member
    May 20, 2017

    Altmer and werewolves is something that fascinates me, it's something I really enjoyed about The Warden. So to see the theme explored again is wonderful! I don't have much to say, but I do like your approach here:

      You are manipulating the forces of life to raise the dead, but it uses Magicka, the same thing used to fuel holy magic like Restoration.  Raising the dead has always seemed like the kind of dark magic that would require you to sacrifice some of your own life-force so I set out to achieve this effect using the Equilibrium spell and the Advanced Atronach Stone to achieve 0% magicka regen to create a true blood mage.

    That sort of ambiguity about "holy magic" vs regular magic is something I enjoy reading about.

  • Member
    May 21, 2017

    I agree with Phil, that little bit about blood magic and necromancy beautifully set up the build to come.

    I'm sure it'll change with time, but the only thing that could let the build down a bit is the early gameplay. Admittedly its rarely an exciting period when you just start out, but there s a bit of a taboo against Illusion + Sneak oriented characters when there isn't a fair amount of restriction on it. Justifying the choice and restrictions with RP and Lore is of course a solid choice to make it feel in character, so it won't matter how it plays as much that it feels right. But apart from that very small bit, this is looking brilliant!

  • Member
    May 21, 2017

    This looks good and I love that this uses Blood Magic concept and Necromancy, but I have some problems with it.

    1) How can you justify joining every guild in Skyrim? College of Winterhold I can understand, but the others not so much.

    2) How can you still be in the Thalmor if you are a Werewolf, or even do missions for them? Thalmor would instantly hate and try to kill you. Also, did you get the idea of Blood Magic and Werewolf from Blooded's build, because they seem similar?

    3) Are you going to play this as an Altmer that is Dragonborn, or use Shouts as a form of greater magic? I ask because if you play as a Dragonborn the Thalmor would instantly hate you and try to kill you.

    4) Instead of being an Assassin I would choose Nightblade or Witchhunter.

  • May 22, 2017
    Zonnon, thanks for the feedback and I am definetly planning on having some restrictions on the sneak and illusion combination because it is pretty overpowered when unchecked. In my playthrough so far I really haven't been using that mechanic very much and mainly focusing on summons instead. My goal is that late game illusion will be used more but only if powered by blood magic and as a means to produce a body to raise. I think those two things will help restrict it in the gameplay pretty significantly and make for some good roleplaying/lore.
  • May 22, 2017
    Pax!, 1) the roleplaying of this build is going to be to that of an agent sent to skyrim to gather information and infiltrate all the main groups of power as a means to further the Thalmors position in Skyrim. This lends itself well to at least contacting all the guilds. I am not planning on completely every full quest line. Ex. this build will join the thieves guild to keep an eye on them but won't do more than 1-2 missions tops. He just wants to infiltrate the guild and not rebuild it. The companions quest line will be completed until the silver hand attack which in roleplaying you will have helped plan and once that is done you will be done with them because you have left them too weak to resist the thalmor. The dark brotherhood is for the final assassination and the college of winterhold is completed mainly so you can access the equilibrium spell. 2) First,I have not seen the build you are referring to and after looking I can't spot it so I'd appreciate a link or the builds full name so I can check that out to make sure they are not too similar. The thought on the werefolf is the thalmor won't know you have become one since you keep it from them. This build is ultimately going to go rogue in pursuit of his own power which culminates with becoming a blood mage and becoming a werewolf is the start of this process. 3) please explain why being dragonborn would cause the thalmor to instantly want to kill him. I don't quite understand that and would like to. My thought was he would be dragonborn and would use this to help him weaken skyrim as a form of irony toward Talos. He definetly won't complete the main quest line or the dragonborn dlc since he is not a hero trying to save skyrim. 4) that's a good point. I'll think about that. Thanks for the great feedback and I hope I clarified a few things and looking forward to your response. I left quite a few things out since this was a pretty rough draft. It hopefully I answered a few questions here.
  • May 22, 2017
    Also, sorry for the formatting of my replies. I am stuck using my phone and it just won't space right haha
  • Member
    May 22, 2017

    1) I understood the College of Winterhold, but the others not so much. I see where you are coming from with the others, but it still makes no sense to me especially the Dark Brotherhood though I do get why it just makes no sense to me. Unless it is like he doesn't care about Sithis and so forth and just wants the Emperor Dead.

    2) I honestly, can not find anymore which is weird, but it is called the Bloodskal Witch. So if I do find it I will link it.

    3) All Dragonborns have been Man, and Altmer hates Man. Plus, since it was Kyne, the wife of Shor, who gave this ability to Man and since Shor is Man's version of Lorkhan the God Altmer hate the must having anything to do with him would cause them to kill him. Thorien and I have had a long discussion about that very same thing.

    4) I just suggested those since it would fit better into your concept.

  • May 24, 2017

    David said:

    1) I understood the College of Winterhold, but the others not so much. I see where you are coming from with the others, but it still makes no sense to me especially the Dark Brotherhood though I do get why it just makes no sense to me. Unless it is like he doesn't care about Sithis and so forth and just wants the Emperor Dead.

    2) I honestly, can not find anymore which is weird, but it is called the Bloodskal Witch. So if I do find it I will link it.

    3) All Dragonborns have been Man, and Altmer hates Man. Plus, since it was Kyne, the wife of Shor, who gave this ability to Man and since Shor is Man's version of Lorkhan the God Altmer hate the must having anything to do with him would cause them to kill him. Thorien and I have had a long discussion about that very same thing.

    4) I just suggested those since it would fit better into your concept.

    1)  I think one of the things I should have clarified is that this build is not meant to be be on good terms with the Thalmor.  I had originally planned on the build to starting on good terms and slowly becoming hated but I think that it will roleplay better if the build is considered rogue from the beginning of the game. However, even though he has been disowned by the Thalmor, the build will still make it his mission to weakening the Empire in Skyrim since he still believes in the superiority of the Altmer and has a deep hatred of Talos.  Additionally, the build is far more motivated by power and politics than any sort of religious ideals and thus will not hesitate to work with daedra or false gods if it allows him to gain power and weaken the Empire.  He truelly believes the ends justify the means.  That is why I do not see an issue with him joining the Dark Brotherhood since, he cares little about Sithis, but using the Dark Brotherhood to weaken the Empire does fit his political goals.

    2) I looked for that build and cannot find it anywhere.  Did it also play as a nightblade/necromancer with no magicka regen and total reliance on blood magic without restoration? Because that is really the difference I have seen between my build any others also using blood magic.

    3) That is good to know and makes alot of sense.  Please explain what you meant by using shouts as a form of greater magic as I do want to use shouts in my build since they will enhance gameplay.  My original idea had been that the build would find it ironic that he has the ability to use the thuum to weaken the Empire built by Talos, another wielder of the thuum.  And being that he more motivated by power and politics than religion and is already hated by the Thalmor this would not break any roleplaying elements in my mind.  Let me know if this doesn't make sense for some reason.

    4) I really like the Nightblade concept because that is much more like how the build will play, minus the abuse of invisability spells.

     

    Thanks for all your great feedback and I appreciate you taking the time to explain these things.  Still somewhat new to building and learning some of the lore and unspoken rules so your feedback is very helpful.

  • Member
    May 24, 2017

    TexasC4 said:

    David said:

    1) I understood the College of Winterhold, but the others not so much. I see where you are coming from with the others, but it still makes no sense to me especially the Dark Brotherhood though I do get why it just makes no sense to me. Unless it is like he doesn't care about Sithis and so forth and just wants the Emperor Dead.

    2) I honestly, can not find anymore which is weird, but it is called the Bloodskal Witch. So if I do find it I will link it.

    3) All Dragonborns have been Man, and Altmer hates Man. Plus, since it was Kyne, the wife of Shor, who gave this ability to Man and since Shor is Man's version of Lorkhan the God Altmer hate the must having anything to do with him would cause them to kill him. Thorien and I have had a long discussion about that very same thing.

    4) I just suggested those since it would fit better into your concept.

    1)  I think one of the things I should have clarified is that this build is not meant to be be on good terms with the Thalmor.  I had originally planned on the build to starting on good terms and slowly becoming hated but I think that it will roleplay better if the build is considered rogue from the beginning of the game. However, even though he has been disowned by the Thalmor, the build will still make it his mission to weakening the Empire in Skyrim since he still believes in the superiority of the Altmer and has a deep hatred of Talos.  Additionally, the build is far more motivated by power and politics than any sort of religious ideals and thus will not hesitate to work with daedra or false gods if it allows him to gain power and weaken the Empire.  He truelly believes the ends justify the means.  That is why I do not see an issue with him joining the Dark Brotherhood since, he cares little about Sithis, but using the Dark Brotherhood to weaken the Empire does fit his political goals.

    2) I looked for that build and cannot find it anywhere.  Did it also play as a nightblade/necromancer with no magicka regen and total reliance on blood magic without restoration? Because that is really the difference I have seen between my build any others also using blood magic.

    3) That is good to know and makes alot of sense.  Please explain what you meant by using shouts as a form of greater magic as I do want to use shouts in my build since they will enhance gameplay.  My original idea had been that the build would find it ironic that he has the ability to use the thuum to weaken the Empire built by Talos, another wielder of the thuum.  And being that he more motivated by power and politics than religion and is already hated by the Thalmor this would not break any roleplaying elements in my mind.  Let me know if this doesn't make sense for some reason.

    4) I really like the Nightblade concept because that is much more like how the build will play, minus the abuse of invisability spells.

     

    Thanks for all your great feedback and I appreciate you taking the time to explain these things.  Still somewhat new to building and learning some of the lore and unspoken rules so your feedback is very helpful.

    1) I can completely understand and support that concept now. A rogue Thalmor as sort and uses whatever he has to archive his goal, I can totally get behind that. 

    2) Yeah, me neither it is like it has disappeared, oh well. Nah, it was like a Barbarian meets Necromancer type thing.

    3) I can't really explain it, there is a build on here somewhere that kind of explains it, but I do think you can use shouts and get away with it. I can provide an example from a build of mine if you would like. Also, him being able to do the Thu'um is more of a reason for the Thalmor to hate him, and your character can also see it as being a gift from Auri-El instead. I have had a great conversation bit this very thing.

    4) You have to abuse Invisibility, lol. I will only be on here for a few more days and after I am leaving for a while, so if you need more help, please don't be afraid to send me a PM and I hope this build turns out great.