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Theory: From Nede To Reachman

Tags: #Reachmen  #Nedes 
  • July 6

    From The Craglorn Steppe To The Mountains Of The Reach

    Or

    How The Reachmen Came To The Reach

    Oh, bastard stars,

    Born in a brothel.

    Your mother was a lewd woman.

    Your father had a disease.

    Men worshipped you and lost the appetite for love.

    Women cried out to you and grew beards.

    You led your children into pits,

    And let them wander into snares.

    The Elves slaughtered them and took their women for concubines.

    The Mer mocked them and took their men for slaves.

    Their blood is on your hands,

    It runs in rivers from your lips.

    Oh silent stars, oh merciless stars,

    Behold your reckoning is at hand;

    At hand is the judgment for your transgressions.

    The Mother of the Water has risen in the desert

    And the Deathlands have brought forth flowers.

    Let the people turn away from false lights;

    Let them embrace true mercy.

    For I have slept a thousand nights and never dreamed,

    But by day I have heard the glorious singing

    Of Shada and her Daughters, hope to all the Nedes. -Defaced Nedic Prayer

     

    It's often said that the Reachmen are a "mongrel" race. But what does that even mean? All races are essentially "mongrels." Whether it's Bretons mixing with the Direnni. Cyrodiils mixing with Atmorans and Ayleids or even Dunmer mixing with Nedes (hello Kothringi) and Dwemer. Hell, just think about the Redguards for a second. You ever wondered why they can range from very dark skin and features to a more middle eastern or Mediterranean look? It's because they are an entire continent's worth of cultures and ethnicities smooshed into one nation. From the earliest days, all tribes will mix and match with those they come into contact with. Anyway, I am going to write about my proposed theory of the earliest history of the Reachmen and how they ended up with the culture they did.

     

    In The Beggining There Was The Nedes

    We all know about the Nedes by now. The native human population that inhabited much of Tamriel along with the Beast races. Slowly but surely the Nedes were eroded away by the cultural dominance of the Elves, the return of the Atmorans and the coming of the Ra Gada. It is this last group that is the most important because as we see from Nedes of the Deathlands the largest and most importantly last bastion of the Nedic civilisation was centred around the city of Skyreach in the steppes of Craglorn. They were driven here after repeated invasion by the Yoku until the Anka Ra army finally sacked the city and sent the remaining Nedes fleeing into the Dragontail mountains never to be heard from again. I am of the opinion that these Nedes made an exodus through these mountains until they came to the Reach and there they settled. Here is an artful depiction:

     

    Considering how close these areas are it is not hard to imagine. You can see where the different tribes of the Nedes would settle. The misty rain-soaked craggy glens and forests of Western Skyrim. The snowy tundra of north-east Wrothgar and the northern foothills of Bangkorai. There are fleeting mentions of the the Bjoulsae River Tribes in High Rock | The Imperial Library and The Mirror (who have Nedic names btw) and the since it has been said that Evermore was founded by the Horse Breton tribes and we know the Reachmen claim all the Mournoth region as their own, saying that Evermore is theirs by birthright we can say the Bjoulsae Tribes and the Reachmen are one and the same.

     

    Armour, Architecture, Religion.

    "But, Veloth" I hear you shout "the Reachmen wear animal skins and worship the Old Gods and Aedra and Deadra and the Nedes worshipped the stars and built armour and cities." True. But have you seen these cities? Take a look:

    What can you see? The first thing that jumps out is the giant stag skull in the middle. This is of course very similar to the constant horns and skulls motif that the Reachmen have across all clans. You will also see on the left in the centre of the pillar a depiction of a horned figure that is very remanicent of Hircine (also Cernnunos in IRL). Below that you will see a tusked figure that looks very much like an Orc. Mauloch? These are two gods we know for a fact that the Reachmen worship and it is these two gods that Lady Clarisse Laurent says the Nedes are depicting. The other constant in the carvings is the snake motif which may represent Sheor as that is a pan-tamrielic tradition. Although the Reachmen have never mentioned a worship of Sheor it is not hard to connect the Briarhearts as a reenactment of the death of Sheor. It is said after the constant invasion of the Ra Gada that the Nedes realized that the standoffish Star Gods were not enough and began worshipping new gods. Maybe this is when they started worshipping Aedra and Daedra? Maybe they conflated the two?

    When the Nedes looked at the stars they seen them shaped as their Thief, Warrior and Mage Celestial Gods. Maybe they started to see it less as a Thief and more as a Hunter and that Hunter was personified as Hircine? Even more intresting is in the desgin document for the Celestial Mage for ESO it is named as Ius. For those of you that don't know Ius, he is an obscure god in Elder Scrolls lore that is said to be the "mishapen" God of Animals. Hircine = Ius ? Also the Warrior Celestial is named as Ebonarm who is the ebony god of warriors. Ebonarm = Trinmac\Malacath?

    Something else that is intresting is that the Reachman relgion is called the Old Way and it is stated in ESO that it's centred around Mysticism. This is pretty much exactly how the Psijic Old Way is described. The Psijic Old Way is said to recognise thousands of powerful spirits as they make no distinction between gods and ancestors. Maybe these spirits are the stars? Also, according to Aspects of Lord Hircine there is a connection between the Reachmens depction of Hircine and the Skaal relgion. Possible remenent of their shared Nedic history? (If Nords are in fact Nedes).

    Now on to the jucy stuff. This is a picture from the up-coming Horns of the Reach DLC:

    Notice anything familar? Yep, that right there is a big Nedic ruin. In the middle of the Reach. With a hagraven standing in front of it. Surrounded by Briarheart Trees. In the DLC there is mention of "nirn-blooded enemies" the Nedes used something called nirncrux. Might there be a connection between this and the briarhearts? Also, see that new armor set? They look kind of similar to this:

    Which is the Nedic armour that already exists in the game. I think it's a pretty safe bet that the Nedic ruins and armour set are Ancient Reachmen ruins and armour and if Beth hadn't decided to cheap out on the Forsworn content when making Skyrim, then this is the kind of armour Red Eagle would have been wearing when you fight him.

    Well, this has been a long poorly structered and badly thoughtout post and I am possitive I have missed out a whole bunch of stuff. Thoughts? Questions? Complaints?

  • Member
    July 7

    No complaints here. What you assert sounds pretty damned good to me. Nedes and the lore presented about them in ESO remains a pool I haven't dived into with any depth, but I find the subject fascinating. Upon this topic I do not have enough information to contradict anything presented, but I do like the way you have thought it up. But omg those carvings! Can you make that second image clickable so that I can study it?

    One thing that I notice is the serpents and the conection you make with Sheor. Is Sheor their serpent celestial? Oh, and it's interesting about Ius. I like that.

    The Ebonarm/Trinimac thing... crap. I think I once had thoughts on that. I'll try and dig them up in order to give a reply of more substance. In the meantime, those carvings tho! Awesome. You mentioned that you hoped the next dlc would help your theory, what are you hoping for? Bloodroot Forge being a Nedic-style ruin in Falkreath? also, minotaurs being seen as Cernnunos figures, actual children of the stars as you and Patriarch posted in his thread?

  • July 7

    Paws said:

    No complaints here. What you assert sounds pretty damned good to me. Nedes and the lore presented about them in ESO remains a pool I haven't dived into with any depth, but I find the subject fascinating. Upon this topic I do not have enough information to contradict anything presented, but I do like the way you have thought it up. But omg those carvings! Can you make that second image clickable so that I can study it?

    One thing that I notice is the serpents and the conection you make with Sheor. Is Sheor their serpent celestial? Oh, and it's interesting about Ius. I like that.

    The Ebonarm/Trinimac thing... crap. I think I once had thoughts on that. I'll try and dig them up in order to give a reply of more substance. In the meantime, those carvings tho! Awesome. You mentioned that you hoped the next dlc would help your theory, what are you hoping for? Bloodroot Forge being a Nedic-style ruin in Falkreath? also, minotaurs being seen as Cernnunos figures, actual children of the stars as you and Patriarch posted in his thread?

     

    Sorry, I have no idea how to make the picture clickable :(. You could take a trip out to Craglorn and have a look and them tho?

    I'm not sure who the Serpent is tbh. They play kind of loose with the identities of Celestials and I haven't done all the Craglorn quests because you need to team up to do them. At one point he is referred to as "Malazar."

    Yeah, as you say, the Nedic ruins being in Falkreath and the Reachmen claiming there ancestor built them also the armour straight up being called Ancient Reachmen Armour would be nice. Oh, minotaurs! I knew I forgot something. It is said that the Beastmen worshipped the stars and it was them that built the celestial standing stones around Nirn. So, I could see star worshipping man-beasts making natural allies with the Reachmen who also worship stars and man-beasts.

  • Member
    July 7

    Veloth the Prophet said:

    Paws said:

    No complaints here. What you assert sounds pretty damned good to me. Nedes and the lore presented about them in ESO remains a pool I haven't dived into with any depth, but I find the subject fascinating. Upon this topic I do not have enough information to contradict anything presented, but I do like the way you have thought it up. But omg those carvings! Can you make that second image clickable so that I can study it?

    One thing that I notice is the serpents and the conection you make with Sheor. Is Sheor their serpent celestial? Oh, and it's interesting about Ius. I like that.

    The Ebonarm/Trinimac thing... crap. I think I once had thoughts on that. I'll try and dig them up in order to give a reply of more substance. In the meantime, those carvings tho! Awesome. You mentioned that you hoped the next dlc would help your theory, what are you hoping for? Bloodroot Forge being a Nedic-style ruin in Falkreath? also, minotaurs being seen as Cernnunos figures, actual children of the stars as you and Patriarch posted in his thread?

     

    Sorry, I have no idea how to make the picture clickable :(. You could take a trip out to Craglorn and have a look and them tho?

    I'm not sure who the Serpent is tbh. They play kind of loose with the identities of Celestials and I haven't done all the Craglorn quests because you need to team up to do them. At one point he is referred to as "Malazar."

    Yeah, as you say, the Nedic ruins being in Falkreath and the Reachmen claiming there ancestor built them also the armour straight up being called Ancient Reachmen Armour would be nice. Oh, minotaurs! I knew I forgot something. It is said that the Beastmen worshipped the stars and it was them that built the celestial standing stones around Nirn. So, I could see star worshipping man-beasts making natural allies with the Reachmen who also worship stars and man-beasts.

    I suppose I could at that. Means I'd have to leave Vvardenfell for a time, but those carvings seem worth the trip.

    Ok, so the minotaurs. They are said to gather arund ancient sites, such as Ayleid Ruins. Ayleids held starlight as the ultimate element, is there maybe a link between Welkynd Magic and the Celestials or other form of star-worship that would link Nedes to minotaurs and to Reachmen? Reachmen and stars seems to be a missing link as far as that goes...

    But on Ebonarm, I have difficulty with a Trinimac link, but feel he is very much a Morihaus figure - an ada connected with the Kyne-Bone. In the context of stars, that actually might work?

  • Member
    July 27

    So, ESO Live July 21st pretty much confirmed Bloodroot Forge is Nedic

    I could find the timestamp, somewhere in the last 20 minutes Gina, I think, asked about the snakes and the significance of them. I am eagerly anticipating this dlc pack, I want to know now what te minotaur link is. Do they gather near Nedic ruins too? I also want to see if there is anything to enhance your theory.

  • July 27

    Paws said:

    So, ESO Live July 21st pretty much confirmed Bloodroot Forge is Nedic

    I could find the timestamp, somewhere in the last 20 minutes Gina, I think, asked about the snakes and the significance of them. I am eagerly anticipating this dlc pack, I want to know now what te minotaur link is. Do they gather near Nedic ruins too? I also want to see if there is anything to enhance your theory.

    Yeah, I saw that. Hopefully, there are some lore hints for us to misinterpret. I also noticed in the stream that the Reachmen have an accent that sounded different but I couldn't hear it well enough to know what it was.

  • Member
    August 2

    Nice one, Mr the Prophet! :)

    Without effort he tore the talisman I wore from my neck and regarded the ruddy stone carving with recognition.

    “Keptu" he uttered. Though the word meant nothing to me, the omen was a good one ~ Meet the Character: Domihaus

  • August 3

    Paws said:

    Nice one, Mr the Prophet! :)

    Without effort he tore the talisman I wore from my neck and regarded the ruddy stone carving with recognition.

    “Keptu" he uttered. Though the word meant nothing to me, the omen was a good one ~ Meet the Character: Domihaus

     

    Also, this:

    I love it when a theory comes together lol.

  • September 4

    So this is ESO? I havent played the game and only saw early stages of it beforehand. Never had time to delve in, it looked less aesthetically appealing the last time i saw it in action (maybe because it was near release that i viewed it lol)

    Anyways I love the work and how you put it all together, i completely agree with your theory, though i'm not much of a lore fanatic myself (I dont actively seek out lore in-game or over the internet) this must've taken a bit of dedication for sure! 

    Again Well Done Veloth :)

  • Member
    September 11

    Heya Veloth, this is the video on your theory I've talked to you about: I hope you like it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAigiL2ozPU