Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


The Nuances of Dibella

Tags: #Lore: Aedra 
  • Member
    October 29, 2016
    Rosayna hurried to take a look at the Bosmer's wounds on his leg and chest. Dishelved [sic] but still beautiful, she was one of the favorites at the brothel, who had learned her healing skill along with her more vocational skills at the House of Dibella. ~ The Refugees

    No other god or goddess gets as much stick as Dibella. The ribbing this Aedra endures is now so legendary that the mere mention of Dibellan Arts evokes giggles as we imagine what Haelga uses her horker tusk for. That is totally fair and long may it continue. With that said, though, there is more to Dibella than innuendo and eroticism for among her many talents Dibella also gives good nuance. The aim of this small piece is to portray some of the Goddess of Beauty's other aspects and examine her role in faith and the connections she shares to other members of Tamriel's pantheon.

    Known also as the Lady of Love and often mentioned in regards to that which is normally seen as Mara's sphere, Dibella already shows how she is connected strongly to the concept of love. It could be said that she represents love in a different form than Mara which immediately demonstrates that there is subtlety in Dibella. Ten Commands of the Nine Divines says Dibella's command is:

    Open your heart to the noble secrets of art and love. Treasure the gifts of friendship. Seek joy and inspiration in the mysteries of love.

    So if Mara is the nurturing and motherly aspect of love, then maybe Dibella is the happiness and joy such love inspires, the youthful freedom of togetherness. It also could be that the use of the word love in Ten Commands is a euphemism, but I would argue that idea in itelf is a reductionism. To try and explain what I mean by this I want to turn to another goddess, Kyne, and take a quick look at The Song of Hrormir:

    Then Sweet Kynareth blew honeyed Winds O'er the Hills and Forest Glens of Aelfendor,
    And the Caress of warm blooded Dibella
    Coaxed the Blossoms to wanton Display
    So that Aelfendor became a Garden
    Of all the Senses.

    Poetic licence aside, we can see here that Dibella is also sharing part of Kynareth's sphere over nature - the beautiful and joy-bringing side of the natural world. To use that to return to the point I was trying to make about Mara, it is my view that these three goddesses are linked as a triple goddess figure and as such represent the divine feminine, Nirn, in her various phases and aspects. That concept adds a great deal of depth to each of the goddesses. If Dibella represents the Maiden; Mara the mother; and Kynareth the Matriarch, we can potentially see each in a very different light. Each of these stages of life is as important as the others and each have their share of all that which each stage of life means when we think of the trials of sadness and happiness. To take that point a bit further I would like to examine Dibella's role in Shor Son of Shor:

    "Our chieftain loses heart," Dibella said, Bed-Wife of Shor, hefting another body onto the corpse pile some of us were making, "And so goes to the speak to one that has none anymore. Mirrors, indeed, and in that I see no logic."

    To explain this I can't do any better than to link to and reproduce parts from an excellent article made by laurelanthalasa on r/teslore called Femininity in Tamrielic Faith Part 3: Dibella:

    Let us first summarize the imagery used in Shor son of Shor; Dibella is first shown piling up the bodies blown in by Kyne's Shout. She then provides a critical opinion of Shor. She is then reprimanded by Tsun/Stuhn/Trinimac, taken by the hair and dragged to a tent, presumably not to play cards.

    Each of those interactions reveals much about the character of this Goddess, and as a whole they reveal to us that this meant more as a commentary on certain Nordic values as well as on the et'Ada themselves, as opposed to an attack on certain aspects of womanhood. Let us go beat by beat through Dibella's role in Shor Son of Shor and explore what exactly it means to be Dibella.

    The pile of corpses, strange at first, for the Goddess best known for her association with sensuality. Dibella, like all women, however is more than just how beautiful she is and her prowess between the sheets. If Mara is Creation and Kyne is a simultaneously sheltering and destructive force behind Creation; Dibella, among other things, is a process of renewal. What Kyne leaves behind, Dibella sweeps up and makes use of it until Mara rears her head and makes something new.

    What else is almost all creative media other than recycled dead matter? Paints and dyes are pigments extracted from dead animal or plant matter. Textiles are the fibres or the skins of expired life. Gems and other minerals are the encasement and transformation of organic matter within an inorganic framework. Even those of you who do digital art, count how many of the metals in your computer can be found in the human body, even in trace amounts? When you sell your work and it goes to print, see the above about ink and fibre. Those of us that choose words as our form of expression are not exempt, a line from C0DA: ALL LANGUAGE IS BASED ON MEAT. Not living flesh, dead meat.

    Next, Dibella accuses Shor of losing heart (literally or figuratively? probably both), and calls his decision to speak to Shor Father of Shor futile and illogical.

    Strong words, befitting of the Goddess of Passion. Just like Kyne isn't all about being old and sexless, Dibella isn't exclusively about that one kind of passion. The passionate youth speaks out of turn, questions authority, is unafraid of making mistakes or their consequences.

    Authority does not always appreciate Passion. Sometimes Passion thinks it knows better than Authority, and Authority can behave extremely inappropriately when confronted by Passion.

    I highly recommend interested readers check out the entire series written by laurelanthalasa.

    Glass Murals - Dibella by Rhagrim

    The mention Laurelanthelasa makes about artistry brings me nicely to the next section of this discussion which is Dibella's sphere of art. Varieties of Faith says:

    Dibella (Goddess of Beauty): Popular god of the Nine Divines. In Cyrodiil, she has nearly a dozen different cults, some devoted to women, some to artists and aesthetics, and others to erotic instruction.

    If that short sentence doesn't convey the complexity of Dibella then I don't know what else does. For when we consider what art is and what it means to us on a personal level, how it inspires everything we do here and what we do in most walks of life, we can maybe summarise all that by saying art, in all it's myriad forms, is imagination. The painter, the poet, the author, the bard, the dancer, the singer and the actor are tangible concepts who most obviously fall within Dibella's sphere, but in addition to that there is so much complexity. Anyone who hopes, anyone who dreams, anyone who can picture something and work to bring it to reality falls within her influence. To further illustrate the connection of art, Dibella and Kynareth, let's also factor in Zenithar for added complexity:

    "Of the original divines, Zenithar is thought to be the most in touch with the mortal realm. Some legends say that Zenithar has close ties to Kynareth, an idea that is supported by the manner in which the two gods' realms interact. Craftsmen devoted to Zenithar are able to create and profit from the materials provided by Kynareth's natural world. The two work in harmony -- the natural world providing for the craftsmen. One cannot revere Zenithar without acknowledging the power of Kynareth." ~ Carodus Oholin

    The Brush of Truepaint is a good example of this concept as it seems to allow the user to create reality just by imagining it.

    For the Ancient Nords, Dibella was likley the Moth totem. We don't have many clues as to why the moth was significant in their culture as there are no sources to refer to, but I think we can glean a few details if we look at the moth in terms or emotional resonance and symbolism, coupled with conjecture. The moth produces the finest of silks which, even before the rise of the Cult of the Ancestor Moth, the Nibenese were using to weave exotic singing-shawls and traded and exported these luxuries (PGE 1Ed) By using ground bark of Canticle trees, the Moth Cultists were aable to attract Ancestor Moths as we have seen in TES V Skyrim. It is not a huge leaap to assume that the Cyro-Nords of the fecund Alessian Empire had brought the practice - and the moths - from Skyrim.  If that was the case then we can determine that the ancient Nords also used the silk of the moth for clothing and crafts.


    In any event, in the moth we can see Dibella very clearly thanks to its beauty, elegance and the creativity which comes with weaving the silk into clothing.

    We have already seen the connections between Dibella and Kynareth so it is no surprise that the symbiosis between the Ancestor Moth, the silk they produce and the Canticle trees exists. However, one of the enduring mysteries of TES lore has been the connection between Dibella and Julianos. Apart from the fact that Julianos' monastic orders are dedicated to the Elder Scrolls, the link between the creativity, passion and beauty represented by Dibella and the logic, reason and law represented by Julianos has never been spelled out although it has been hinted in more than the Julianos and Moth Priest Connection. Indeed, the lore community asked such questions of the Loremaster's Archive community program seen on ESO's website. No response was forthcoming, leading us to assume that it was something that would be detailed more thouroughly in due course.


    In Shor, Son of Shor, Dibella is the only et'Ada who seems to sympathise with Jhunal and speak as he would:

    "Kyne had taken the head of Magnar, the jarl that betrayed the weakness of our spear-lines and fled the field. Shor shook his scaled mane. "That isn't Magnar," he said, "Magnar, I fear, fell at sunrise and became replaced by mirrors. The other chieftains are using our forms to lead us astray."

    "And then Shor walked away from his War-Wife to enter the cave that led to the Underworld. He needed to take counsel with his father yet again. "Our chieftain loses heart," Dibella said, Bed-Wife of Shor, hefting another body onto the corpse pile some of us were making, "And so goes to the speak to one that has none anymore. Mirrors, indeed, and in that I see no logic."

    "Tsun took her by the hair, for he was angered by her words and heavy with lust. He was a berserker despite his high station, and love followed battle to his kind. "You weren't made for that kind of thinking," Stuhn said, dragging Dibella towards a whaleskin tent, "Jhunal was. And no one should be speaking to him now." Tsun eyed the Clever Man who had heard him. "Logic is dangerous in these days, in this place. To live in Skyrim is to change your mind ten times a day lest it freeze to death. And we can have none of that now."

    And so Jhunal falls out of favour in Skyrim, leaving the Nordic pantheon until Alessia revives his worship in the form of Julianos.

    I put the Dibella/Jhunal mystery to our artist and philospher, Legion, who's thoughts on the subject made so much sense that I now consider the enigma solved. Here's Legion's thoughts:

    Logic, law, feeling and art - a balance is  struck here between the orderly and the chaotic, the rational and irrational. The key here is not that the rational and irrational are separate, but that they necessarily interact.

    A rational and logical approach is taken where needed, but it is not without an indulgence in creative passions and joy in existence. This works both ways and a balance is naturally and necessarily struck between the two.

    The rational and irrational lie on a spectrum, where strict the adherence to either act as the ends of the spectrum. They are not always used in equal parts, but both are necessarily used unless great, concerted effort is applied to completely separate the concepts and use them respective of each other.

    Thoughts and feelings work together to varying degrees depending on the situation in order to establish the best courses of action. We all inherently understand and apply this in daily life, though we may tend to favor one side of the spectrum over the other.

    Too much adherence to strict rationality and one misses the beautiful half of the human experience. Too much irrationality and one lives a chaotic and fraught existence. Logic has strict rules and methodology and art allows each creator the freedom to express anything they wish. But each of these concepts contains a piece of their counterpart within in them.

    Art has methodologies and techniques used to achieve specific ends, but the product is as valid as any other regardless of these methodologies as long as it was created for the love of the craft, to express any array of emotions or as an appreciation of its unique beauty.

    Logic, on the other hand, demonstrates its creativity through the use of outside-of-the-box problem solving while still adhering to the strict rules of validity. There are often multiple solutions to one problem. That is, one end, yet multiple means to achieve said end. It is like walking a road that splits into three, each of whom's fork will lead you to the same destination, yet give you an entirely unique experience.

    Ultimately, to consider the rational and irrational as separate is to overlook the depth, beauty, and interactions of each.

    Absolutely incredible and the perfect note to end on. Thanks Liege, and for the art!

    Thank you for reading.

    Check out Dibella's Beautiful Blade, strap on a massive weapon, and bring Dibella's love to Skyrim SE.

  • Member
    October 29, 2016

    "No other god or goddess gets as much stick as Dibella" lol!

  • Member
    October 29, 2016

    I'll have to read this in the morning. It's useful to know we can post gifs.

  • October 29, 2016

    I see that Legion is our Clever Man. Very good thoughts there.

    I´m surprised you just put a link to Lythandas´s journal in there and didn´t just quote it up front, mate. I think it would work better. It´s really awesome source.

    And Shor son of Shor. Damn, that book always gives a spin :D

    But I have to say it is an interesting notion that Dibella for Nords is...passion. I mean, there isn´t much artistry among Nords right? So why would they need a god of art? Their version is of course more along the terms of their life. 

    To live in Skyrim is to change your mind ten times a day lest it freeze to death. 

    That pretty much says all you need to know. 

  • October 29, 2016

    I always loved the idea that Dibella essentially replaced Jhunal in the Nordic pantheon. They went from a god of logic to a god of creativity. Creativity in all it's aspects not just in the artistic sense. The goddess of thinking sideways.

  • Tom
    Member
    November 2, 2016

    I got to here,

    Poetic licence aside, we can see here that Dibella is also sharing part of Kynareth's sphere over nature - the beautiful and joy-bringing side of the natural world. To use that to return to the point I was trying to make about Mara, it is my view that these three goddesses are linked as a triple goddess figure and as such represent the divine feminine,

    and thought, "I wonder if Phil read that 4-Part essay on the goddeses in Nordic culture." Not even a full paragraph later you link to it.

  • Member
    November 3, 2016

    Tom said:

    I got to here,

    Poetic licence aside, we can see here that Dibella is also sharing part of Kynareth's sphere over nature - the beautiful and joy-bringing side of the natural world. To use that to return to the point I was trying to make about Mara, it is my view that these three goddesses are linked as a triple goddess figure and as such represent the divine feminine,

    and thought, "I wonder if Phil read that 4-Part essay on the goddeses in Nordic culture." Not even a full paragraph later you link to it.

    Ha! Yeah I've been a fan of that series for a while and you already know how I like to see the connections in all things and how I like to view the gods and demons of aspects of a greater whole. So Dibella was a subject I was comfortable with except that Jhunal link. A few of us wrote in to LMA asking them to explain excatly how and why creativity and passion were linked to logic and reason, two seemingly opposite concepts. That was the main reason I posted this, now I can say the subject of Dibella is finally settled in my mind.

    I came across this, though, which I hadn't read before. Specifically the last sentence grabbed me:

    That’s what Dibella is. Not just sex, not just beauty, but the song of the universe that calls you to look at it, and be utterly enthralled. And you love every second of it.

  • Member
    January 19, 2017

    Wow. A truly revealing look at the god I always giggle at. I know very little about Nord culture, despite my first game being Skyrim; and a much fuller understanding of Dunmer culture, but I've only played Morrowind a few hours. Time to loose myself in the archives...

  • Member
    January 19, 2017

    LoreAddict said:

    Wow. A truly revealing look at the god I always giggle at. I know very little about Nord culture, despite my first game being Skyrim; and a much fuller understanding of Dunmer culture, but I've only played Morrowind a few hours. Time to loose myself in the archives...

    The giggling is my favourite part too truth be told :D Thanks for your feedback :) Would like to hear your thoughts on Dunmer, please feel free to start a discussion at any time.