Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Examining Jurgen Windcaller

  • Member
    October 31, 2014
    It's a sound theory, at least for the draugr we know are tied to Dragon Priests, but remains inapplicable to Jurgen's tomb(unless we're back on the idea that he was some kind of closet cultist).
  • Member
    October 31, 2014
    Delphine is a good example, but whatever weakness she exploited allowed her to bypass all but two or three draugr, so they're still not fulfilling their purpose.
  • Tom
    Member
    November 2, 2014

    I'm glad someone brought up the real life inspirations for the Draugr, and I feel ashamed for not thinking of doing so myself.

    I disagree on having two different types of Draugr, of course. As stated, I'm inclined to think they're simply self-willed undead for the most part, with varying connections to the Dragon Cult from none to full-fledged members.

  • Member
    November 3, 2014
    So... what if they're just "bad" Nords, who weren't honorable/worthy enough to go to Sovngarde, and their anger and shame fuels that self-willed second life. Though they may not have been worthy of Sovngarde in the eyes of Shor or whoever's boss there, they were probably still friends and family, and merited honorable burial, at least in the eyes of their kin. That would account for any non-Cult draugr, including those in Jurgen's tomb *as well as* those "draugr" still sleeping the peaceful slumber of the dead(aka Sovngarde worthy).
  • Tom
    Member
    November 3, 2014

    I might have misspoken or misread.

    I don't think there's anything fundamentally different between any of the draugr in terms of their creation. It's simply the burial practice of the ancient Nords/Atmorans. Their arising is simply by the process of self-willed.

    There can be whatever reason for them being self-willed. Whether it's an adherence to the Dragon Priests or rejection from Sovngarde.

  • Member
    November 3, 2014
    Creation of draugr doesn't seem to play doesn't seem to play any role in their self-willed animation, anyway, but Phil has already provided a source suggesting that it is a different process, at least for those who adhered to the Dragon Cult.
  • June 22

    Ok, so reading through this page has been a treat but I do have to call Tom out on something. When you joined the conversation you said the following.

    Tom said:

    I've got what I hope is a bomb to drop on this discussion, which is especially relevant to the Draugr.

    Anyone remember the quest Andurs' Arkay Amulet? Whiterun's priest of Arkay loses his Amulet in the catacombs and can't or won't enter to retrieve it because,

    It's the source of my divine powers and also a sacred badge of office. I misplaced it in the catacombs. I'd look for it, but I've been hearing noises down there. I fear the dead have become... restless. Without that amulet, I'm powerless to confront them.

    The dead can rise on their own, especially when Arkay's rites aren't performed. The Draugr never received Arkay's blessings or rites since most were interred before Arkay was a god, or even worshipped by the nords. This is why we see Draugr in crypts unconnected with the Cult.

    EDIT: To clarify, remove the connection between Draugr and the Dragon Cult, there is nothing connecting Jurgen to the Dragons, and no reason to suspect conspiracy between Paarthurnax, the Grey Beards, and the Way of the Voice.

     

    Then once Manik brought his viewpoint in. You immediately jumped in with both feet and changed your opinion, without crediting him. 

    Tom said:

    As stated, I'm inclined to think they're simply self-willed undead for the most part, with varying connections to the Dragon Cult from none to full-fledged members.

    Before this you had not even mentioned something filled with hatred or a single purpose to the point they come back. You just said "the dead can rise of their own accord." Maybe what you meant by this is being brought back by a single purpose, and if so then whoops. I just read it wrong, but if not I felt it needed to call you out on it. 

     

    Sidenote: I love how this started as a discussion on Jurgen Windcaller, then evolved into Windcaller's tomb, then draugr explanations. It's rather fantastic. Keep up the good work, Loremasters.