Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Talos is NOT Wulfarth, Tiber, and Arcturus....

  • Member
    October 19, 2014

    http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-/61309226 The book, The Arcturian Heresy, is all lies. How, you may ask? Simple, in game events debunk it. In both Daggerfall (which I never fully completed due to having gotten lost in a dungeon for a quest, I have seen LPs), and Oblivion, you encounter the Underking. If Zurin had, as the books proclaimed, become the Underking, how was he a part of Talos. If Wulfarth possessed the body of Zurin Arctus, turning him into the Underking, how was he part of the Talos entity? If either of these are the case, than the only individual who could be Talos, is Tiber Septim himself. Wulfarth was already a ghost inhabiting a golem of ashes, and Arctus was killed by Wulfarth prior to Mantling. How then, could. Arctus be both the Underking, who you face in Sancre Tor, and part of Talos? Or how could Wulfarth, who was slain for the last time before Talos mantled the Heart? How is the Dragonborn not Talos, he walked the way Tiber and Ysmir did. Is The Dragonborn, Talos, Ysmir, Shezzarines? Who, or what, is Talos?

    Let me hear the opinions, let the verbal slaughter begin.

  • Member
    October 19, 2014

    I find this funny because something related to this just happened to me.

    I went on the Elder Scrolls wiki to read up on Tiber Septim, but holy mother of Arkay that thing was wrong. It basically took everything from the Arcturian Heresy, Hjalti, Alcaire and all that and presented it as fact, without even so much as mentioning the commonly accepted truth. It said that Talos killed Cuhlecain and slit his throat to conceal the evidence, and that Ysmir was a different person.

    So I edited to give the truth as well as the AH speculation. But then it was changed back. So I edited it again. Changed back. Every time it was reversed, because apparently I didn't have references, which I didn't need because everything I put in had already been referenced. And it's damn frustrating.

  • Member
    October 19, 2014

    I need time to gather sources to formulate a reply, but quickly consider this: the first mention of Hjalti Neck-Beard is in the Arcturian Heresy. Up until then PGE1Ed was the primary source which never mention Hjalti.

    The events of Skyrim around Old Hroldan's quest confirm Hjalti as a historical fact.

    Heresy 1 - 0 Orthodoxy

  • Tom
    Member
    October 19, 2014

    I'm inclined to think you've given the whole theory a cursory glance and dismissed The Arcturian Heresy and out of game articles, books, and dialogue.

    I say this, because from Daggerfall,

    Centuries ago, Tiber Septim ruled the land and forged an empire with great Numidium. The secret of Numidiums's power lies in its heart, carried within the Mantella. It is the heart of Tiber Septim's battlemage. It is my heart. It is my Mantella. It is my Totem. It belongs to me, and to none other. I have won and lost an empire.

    A quotation from a letter sent by the Underking. Please note the highlighted text. Wherein we see being alive or undead is possible while one's soul, or heart, was removed and used. This indicates Zurin Arctus as being the Underking, however. I submit that the point of Wulfharth being referred to as the Underking first, for it to be taken by Zurin is appropriate considering the fates of their souls/hearts being absorbed and  betrayed by Tiber Septim, combined into the Mantella.

    And for precedence of three independent beings being one godhood, see Almsivi, being referred to as the "triune god", and the fates of all three being dependent upon each other and the Heart of Lorkhan, which it should be noted that the Mantella created by Zurin/Wulfharth/Tiber was created to replace and power Numidium.

    Now, from Chris

    How then, could. Arctus be both the Underking, who you face in Sancre Tor, and part of Talos? Or how could Wulfarth, who was slain for the last time before Talos mantled the Heart? How is the Dragonborn not Talos, he walked the way Tiber and Ysmir did. Is The Dragonborn, Talos, Ysmir, Shezzarines? Who, or what, is Talos?

    With the underlined, the process by which these three souls became Talos and ascended has less to do with mashing these three spirits together and more of mimicking the event of Magnus, Auriel, and Lorkhan and the sundering the Heart. You become god by mirroring what god has done.

    Concerning the bold, LDB did not walk in the steps of Talos. Ysmir isn't a person, but a title as well. I suggest seeing my article on Shezzarines for the last part of your question, though LDB may or may not be Shezzarine, I didn't mention it because I thought it'd be too much speculation since we don't know the outcome of Skyrim.

  • Member
    October 19, 2014
    Huh, interesting, I had no idea that could work, Interesting point.
  • Member
    October 19, 2014

    It is possible Talos used Hjalti as a fake name; my main issue with the article is that it never considered the commonly accepted truth, nay, it was not even mentioned.

     As well, the ghost in the inn could be referring to a completely different person, the reference added by Bethesda only to fuel speculation.

  • Member
    October 20, 2014
    Why would Tiber use a fake name? If he was a Nord, he wouldn't need to have a Nordic name to get the Nords to,support Jim, born in High a Rock or otherwise.
  • Member
    October 20, 2014

    Looks like I need to add "What is an Enantiomorph?" to the FAQ.

  • Member
    October 20, 2014

    Xarxes, I'd recommend you use either UESP or the Imperial Library for sources. UESP is less biased and the library only deals with primary sources anyway.

  • Member
    October 20, 2014
    Generally, I think the Library mainly takes the Kirkbride side of things, from my knowledge, though I could be wrong.