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On Kyne, Tava and Meridia. The Colour of Hope?

  • Member
    July 9, 2014

    During the process of trying to understand Matt Feeney's theory as detailed in his Yokudan Creation Myth: Analysis and taking in some Redguard lore for the first time under his tutelage, I hit upon a theory of my own. This idea comes from trying to understand the role of Kyne, Tava and Meridia and how they may all be connected. Be warned, the theory relies on a piece of out-of-game commentary which establishes the link in the first place. Also, this is just my own head-cannon and until such a time the theory is proven or debunked it should remain that way.

    Part One: The Ayleids.

    In Ayleid culture the Daedric Princes were revered along with the traditional Aldmeri Aedra and it is speculated that the first Aldmeri offshoots who became the Ayleids were among the first to do so (Daedra Worship: The Ayleids.) Among this pantheon of mixed Aedra and daedra, Meridia - Merid-Nunda to the Heartland High Elves - held a high place due to being the embodiment of light, that being sacred as one of the four elements of creation (Exegesis of Merid-Nunda).

    The Exegesis of Merid-Nunda is an important book because I believe it to be the first in-game source which legitimizes a previously "non-canon" text Imperial Census of Daedra Lords. In this text the author mentions how Meridia is no ordinary Daedric Prince but in fact Magna-Ge:

    "the Tract of Merid-nunda, which overtly casts Meridia in the role of a wayward solar daughter, cast from the heavens for consorting with illicit spectra."

    The Exegesis makes reference to the same ancient book by saying:

    "the Tract of Merid-Nunda is one of the strangest and least understood works of mythohistory..."

    and further establishes Meridia as a being part of the Magna-Ge in the sentence:

    "...were known as the Nine Coruscations, who followed the parabolas that led away from Magnus. Merid-Nunda was of these Sisters, as was Mnemo-Li, as was Xero-Lyg, as was...."

    Birds also have a huge significance in Ayleid society. From feathers and avian motifs adorning weapons and armour to graceful statues which dot the many ancient ruins said to depict Auriel's ascension. One out of game source states the eagle represents the Aedra to Altmer and one can presume the same is true for the Ayleids(ESO Developer Comment). The Song of Pelinal also makes many references to feathers and beaks in reference to the Wild Elves.

    Part Two: Tava the Bird Goddess

    For the Yokudans, Tava is a goddess of air and birds and has been assimilated into the mythology of Kyne (Varieties of Faith), the wind association further backed up in an out of game text Lord Vivec's Sword-Meeting With Cyrus the Restless "...windy Tava who filled our sails with escape."

    However, things don't get really interesting until we have a look at the book Glinting Talons in which it details a sect of warriors who:

    "...revered Tava as well as Diagna, engraving their blades with the wings of a hawk. The bird's keen sight, accuracy, and rending claws inspired their sword-songs, and references to the sun and light are numerous."

    The references to sun and light are a new concept in any reference to either Diagna or Tava as far as I am aware. We can already see why there is a connection between Kyne and Tava but does this book add Meridia into the mix?

    Is it just a leap of imaginative faith on my part to envision Tava or Kynareth to be the Wandering Ehlnofey's version of The Old Ehlnofey's Merid-Nunda, the differences being thousands of years of cultural separation? If the Aldmeri were the first to worship Daedra, a practice the Ayleids eventually took up, isn't it plausible that Meridia was one of those worshipped?

    Part Three: Kyne's Tears

    In the Song of Pelinal, Alessia prays to Mara:

    "And this thing I have thought of, I have named it, and I call it freedom. Which I think is just another word for Shezarr Who Goes Missing... [You] made the first rain at his sundering [and that] is what I ask now for our alien masters... [that] we might sunder them fully and repay their cruelty [by] dispersing them to drown in the Topal. Morihaus, your son, mighty and snorting, gore-horned, winged, when next he flies down, let him bring us anger." ... [And then] Kyne granted Perrif another symbol, a diamond soaked red with the blood of elves, [whose] facets could [un-sector and form] into a man whose every angle could cut her jailers and a name: PELIN-EL [which is] "The Star-Made Knight" [and he] was arrayed in armor [from the future time]. And he walked into the jungles of Cyrod already killing, Morihaus stamping at his side froth-bloody and bellowing from excitement because the Pelinal was come..."

    So where's the Meridia link? Let me draw your attention back to the Exegesis in which it says:

    "...thus does Merid-Nunda [ride? slide?] across the rainbow road from end to end, at one end stretching the dragon, at the other end compressing him...."

    A curious passage indeed. The "dragon," of course, traditionally refers to the Divine we know as Akatosh, the God of Time. This seems to suggest that by traveling the "rainbow road" (a reference to the prismatic refraction of light?), Meridia can in some sense alter the rate at which time flows forward.

    We have the Aedra Kyne/Tava,  who can send a being back through time to aid St Alessia and we have a Daedric Prince who can manipulate the flow of time. Time is normally only ever associated with the Dragon Gods, not something just any divine can mess with.

    One last link to examine but this is where we have to take the trip out of our comfort zone and into "non-cannon" material. In order for all three goddesses to be linked, we need an in-game text which ratifies an out-of-game discussion. Here's the link to the page in which Michael Kirkbride discusses the link between Kyne and Meridia.

    "What no one has ever seen is the connection between Meridia and Kyne. Let that sink in. What do they-- when connected-- both govern?

    Think about KotN. One made the Knight, one opposed the Knight. One rained forever because he was gone. One said, no I will wait until he comes back."

    I can't say I understand any of it fully but the last line seems very important:

    "Still the same: they show you the path. Even as an orphaned star, you will get HOME again. You always have your birthsign. Rejoin with it. That's your family. The star signs of the magic that rules this world. They know the way. All you have to do is look, hear, touch, taste or feel for their presence. It's in their job description."

    These references of orphaned stars, birthsigns and getting home again seem pretty easy to connect with Meridia, especially in light of the theory that the Magna-Ge are part of the Redguard pantheon in that they guide the way to the Far Shores.

    Finally a Summary

    I'd like to think that one of the emotions discussed in that last link is hope. Such an emotion suits both Kyne (who weeps for the joy and beauty of the world) and Tava who helped a fleeing nation discover a new land. I propose that Glinting Talons is the first in-game book which casts Tava as the missing link to Kyne and Meridia, and that it ties the themes of light, air and birds together while reminding us of the similarities between the birds associated with Ayleid culture and Merid-Nunda.

    Please share your thoughts

  • Member
    July 9, 2014
    Funny enough, I've always believed that Meridia was corrupted into becoming a Daedric Prince, but was either an Aedric spirit, or a mortal.
  • Member
    July 9, 2014

    Good instincts Chris. It seems like she flipped the bird at the Daedric Princes and carved her own plane of Oblivion after returning from Aetherius.

  • Member
    July 9, 2014
    And to add a tragic twist, I, when she was mortal, believed she was the lover of either Tiber Septim or Zurin Arctus. When either died,she, coerced by Molag Bal disguised as an advisor, turned to Necromancy to ressurect him, which failed, and killed her, hence her hatred of undead, as she was corrupted by Bal. Now, she is. Separated from her love by either him becoming a Divine, becoming the Underking, or fusing with Tiber.
  • July 16, 2014

    For further reference under Part One,2920, Book Five references an Ayleid who shapeshifted from bird form to help Turala, a pregnant Dunmer woman to give birth.

    This is a beautiful addition to the group, Phil, and one that I would like to consider a bit longer before commenting further (as I am also putting my finishing touches on a Meridia article, but need to check on all ESO material before it is complete).  I certainly agree with the dots you have connected here, though.  Our world mythological experience shows connections between different cultures and the deities they worshipped, though under different names.  Slight differences can generally be understood due to cultural variances and value systems I believe, yet it seems that many races in TES have freedom and hope as a very highly placed value.

    Thank you so much for sharing this with us...this is what really makes lore fun in my opinion!

  • Member
    July 16, 2014

    Thank you very much Kynareth  I'm glad you haven't given up on that Meridia Dossier as I'm still looking forward to reading that.

    Thanks for the link too, a rare portrayal of an Ayleid doing something noble rather than being an out and out villain. I do love TES books and their propaganda  Is this the first source that actually has them shapeshifting?

    I'm with you on the different cultural connections to various deities, like it's the same Eight remembered differently by each religion. I'm still not entirely sure but I think that through mythopoeic forces these different cultural deities are transformed into entities in their own right. So they might have started off the same but over time and through worship they are now individual entities in their own right.

    As for your last comment I couldn't agree more. I've been getting myself into trouble lately and ruffling a few feathers with pretty much the same message. TES isn't Dragon Age or Mass Effect with immutable rules and lore. In game sources are contradictory and so finding the truth is part of the fun. I see absolutely no reason why more of these sorts of theories can't be explored and debated, the final decision as to an idea's authenticity down to the reader and not based on some canon/non-canon principle. As long as the sources referenced are clearly identified, the final canonicity of any piece of work should be in the eye of the beholder.

  • July 16, 2014

    Yes, I feel that Ayelids have been inaccurately portrayed as demonic elves quite a bit, and generally things are a bit more balanced than that.  Marukh and his followers destroyed so much during the reforms that we will not have an accurate picture unfortunately.  So I agree, it is nice to see another side of things.  I do believe that this is one of the few official mentions of Ayelids being able to shapeshift, but knowledge of that sort of magic died with them.  I have a few odd musings about that, but it would derail your thread.  I think the Song of Pelinal actually refers to Pelinal slaying those with beaks and feathers, which I also believe is in reference to the Ayleids shapeshifting.  

    To add additional support to your theory, Jephre or Y'ffre is worshipped instead of Kyne or Tava.  He is typically portrayed as male though (ESO mentions Y'ffre as a "she"), but taught the birds their songs.  He also sings so beautifully that be can make the stars sway (Of Jephre).

    I also agree with you that all of these deities are "entities in their own right" because the power of worship has created them into separate deities.  The lore book King Edward actually sets forth this theory and though we have only seen it in Daggerfall, I think the book itself is a good foundation for the metaphysics found in subsequent TES games.

    Phil, you are quite witty with your mentioning "ruffling feathers" and all this talk of birds!  I hope we can clarify the canon/non-canon debate fairly soon.  I think it is basically a matter of misunderstandings, but I want to make sure all the hosts are on board with an official guideline.  I think we can have a best of both worlds sort of solution.  

  • Member
    July 16, 2014
    Pelinal also killed Khajjit.
  • Member
    July 18, 2014

    I look forward to your musings on shapeshifting and Ayleid magic Kyne. Are you thinking of putting them in article form? I've always loved the Song of Pelinal - to confess it was the KotN questline which got me into lore back in the day. Before that I was pretty Oblivious to it  So anything you right which references those books will get my attention.

    It's interesting there is another link to birds and stars in the form of Y'ffre. Maybe I'm reading too deeply by calling it a connection though. Thanks for the link.

    I look forward to the resolution of the canon debate too.

  • July 18, 2014

    I would like to think that they are real connections, Phil, and that the lore masters at Bethesda actually display some continuity and forethough when planning lore, since much of it can be contradictory at times (it helps my sense of sanity, which can be tenuous at best!)    I feel the link is pretty strong...Y'ffre's song can be construed as the songs of Nature and creation itself, whether in birdsong or the sighing of the breeze.  I wonder at the assignment of gender to the different deities, since Tamriel, for the most part, does not seem to adhere to the gender politics that are our heritage in this world.

    Interestingly enough, I would place The Song of Pelinal in my top ten favorite lore books, maybe even top five.  It inspired the gameplay for my "canon" Dragonborn in fact.  Hmmm...maybe unpacking the Song book by book would be an interesting series of articles?  I think it is pretty integral to many things in the lore world actually.  Goodness.  So much lore, so little time!