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The Brotherhood

    • 108 posts
    May 15, 2017 7:23 PM EDT

    Since launching Fallout 3 and taking my first dive into the wasteland back in 2013. , I had been in love with the Brotherhood of Steel. I love everything, from their armor, to the (magnificent) Prydwen, to the NOT boring radiant quests in FO4. I guess that the thing that attracted me to them was their military centred society.

    I always wanted to join the military, but at the age of 16, I got in a car accident and my left shoulder was shattered. It never healed back the right way (don't know why) and it marked me as unfit for duty. That's probably the reason that I connect myself with the Brotherhood.

    Anyway, what I wondered, is why are there so many people say that the Brotherhood is evil or just bad. Sure they can be a bit selfish or rude at some time, but that's whats neccesary to rebuild the world. I really think that the Brotherhood is the only hope for the world of Fallout. What do you think? Let me know below.

    Ad Victoriam!

    • 87 posts
    May 15, 2017 8:20 PM EDT

    A lof of people sees them as being evil because of their attitude towards everyone else and their outlook on society. I am a huge supporter of the Brotherhood of Steel, like you, but they do have questionable morals. In Fallout 3, it is easy to like the Brotherhood of Steel because they want to help the D.C. area by giving out free fresh water and stuff, but when Arthur took over they went back to the old ways of we need all the technology no negotiation about it, and if you didn't obey you were killed, and in Fallout 4 Tegan wants you to tell the farmers/settlements below that they need to supply the Brotherhood, and if they don't comply then make them comply. that is a few examples those type of things isn't actually great qualities for a "good" faction. Plus, they have the attitude of we rule everything and control everything, which makes them kind of Fascist in a way. I know that word gets thrown around a lot, but it fits with the Brotherhood of Steel.

    I still think they have a good concept behind them, but the later leaders tend to become more and more power hungry, which is why I wish Bethesda didn't cut out the content of you becoming the leader of the Brotherhood because depending on your character you could change the view of them and have people actually support them. I mean even Gage compares the BoS to raiders, so you know you kind of messed up. Also, Oxhorn does a really great video about this, link here.

    On a personal note, I do feel your pain about wanting to join the armed forces, but couldn't due to a severe injury.

    Ad Victoriam, Brother!

    • 538 posts
    May 15, 2017 11:33 PM EDT

    Ooohh, the Brotherhood. I really like the Brotherhood as a faction. They fascinate me. Hell, most of my Fallout art has been in the Brotherhood aesthetic. Erm...my art gallery isn't up, but some of what I made is at the bottom of this post. But my fascination with the Brotherhood is double edged. I see their benefits, and boy do I ever see their flaws.

    The reasons that I see the Brotherhood as "bad" largely has to do with their authoritarian means of government. If you are not with the Brotherhood, you are against them. Knight Rhys says as much when you first speak to him. That's the main issue. The Brotherhood cannot coexist. It is either their way, or the way of laser-delivered death. They are a black and white organization with no room for grey. That fundamentally makes them an inappropriate power for rule. Any organization that ignores the greys of life is, frankly, stupid. They have an agenda and stick to it even if it means their death. That is an organization that will inevitably be overthrown. 

    As for their doctrine of preserving technology...yeah...that spiraled out of control into the seclusive zealots we now know. The fact is, the Brotherhood is fractured. Between the various chapters, not to mention the Outcasts, the Brotherhood lacks any centralized form of power. If they aren't destroyed from the outside in, they will crumble from the inside out. They refuse to evolve and instead choose to hoard remnants of the old world on the misguided belief that technology led humanity astray. No no. Humans led humanity astray. Fallout 3's intro says as much when it speaks of humans warring with sticks and rocks. Technology cannot be controlled or stopped, and humanity will never cease in its efforts to destroy itself. The Brotherhood is living a lie. And they'll live that lie for as long as their superior firepower allows them to, but Fallout 4's events demonstrate just how swiftly they can be toppled. All it takes is a little push. 

     


    This post was edited by Legion at May 15, 2017 11:35 PM EDT
    • 108 posts
    May 16, 2017 3:25 AM EDT

    Thats some amazing art, Legion. But, you have to look to another thing. No matter how good it is, every ruler is bound to be overthrown. The Brotherhood may be gone two years after FO4 or 200 years after. And they are partially right. I'm not saying that all technology should be kept from the people of the wasteland, but some some should. Imagine if a group of raiders or a common wastelander found the ICBM's in Fallout New Vegas. All they'll see is a big red button and they WILL push that button. Even the Courier has the option of launching the warheads. And when it comes to occuping farms, most armies were like that in real life, some are like that even now. Help them or they will help themselves.

    • 115 posts
    May 16, 2017 10:58 AM EDT

    DUDE LEGION!!! WHY YOU HOLDING OUT ON US!!!

    I actually recently went into a more in-depth BOS playthrough. The hard-line moral decisions you're forced into are a litte...much. But, there is a lot of depth in the characters and their stories (think of danse / scribe haylen sort of stuff). I think they did a really good job of fleshing out the story in this faction in FO4...maybe more so than any other. If you can buy into their code, then it makes for a really immersive playthrough. 

    • 538 posts
    May 17, 2017 12:28 AM EDT

    @D3LTA

    No matter how good it is, every ruler is bound to be overthrown. The Brotherhood may be gone two years after FO4 or 200 years after. And they are partially right. I'm not saying that all technology should be kept from the people of the wasteland, but some some should. Imagine if a group of raiders or a common wastelander found the ICBM's in Fallout New Vegas. All they'll see is a big red button and they WILL push that button. Even the Courier has the option of launching the warheads. And when it comes to occuping farms, most armies were like that in real life, some are like that even now. Help them or they will help themselves.

    Fair enough, that was my weakest point in my list of points. I'll try to elaborate.

    The Brotherhood's doctrine is fundamentally flawed because it relies entirely on what "ought" to be, without reasoning why. So, for example, Maxson believes that Synths are abominations that never should have been created, and ought to therefore be destroyed. "Technology run amok," I think he says. He implies that because something "should not" have been created, by whatever criteria that's based on, that the creation is therefore objectively bad. This is indefensible. There are so many examples of what he calls "abominations" positively contributing something to the world, or at least not causing trouble. Third generation synths who want to live in peace as humans. The super mutans who live in the snowy northwest hills of Nevada. The Grog, full of ghouls trying to provide something beneficial to society. He believes that even the peaceful and demonstrably "good" members of these groups should be exterminated based on nothing more than that they "should not" have existed. Maxson likes to pretend he is God. He is not. 

    Maxson and the Brotherhood he leads have not learned from the war. They have villainized (don't know if it's a word, frankly don't care) humanity and everything that is not biologically human. Non-humans are abominations deserving of death. No exceptions. Humans that are not with the Brotherhood are against them and cannot be trusted to use technology. No exceptions. The fact that Masxon believes the Brotherhood is somehow more qualified to use the technology they so readily seize just demonstrates his delusion. His order is made of the same beings that started the war. And the Brotherhood demonstrates that it is all-to-willing to start even more wars in the name of "peace". They use overwhelming shows of force to establish dominance and eradicate anyone who opposes them. 

    So it's not just that the Brotherhood will inevitably be overthrown or destroyed, but that they will effectively repeat history and send humanity back a step in their misguided attempts to restore what they consider peace. A system of power that colors everything in blacks and whites is fundamentally incompatible with the world of human existence, will not see any measurable success in the time they are in power, and will repeat history under a different flag. Because war...war never changes. 

    • 538 posts
    May 17, 2017 12:31 AM EDT

    And thank you for complimenting my work, D3LTA and Motty. I put these up on ning but I've been lazy about reposting my art gallery. 

    • 108 posts
    May 17, 2017 5:31 PM EDT

    You are right Legion. The Brotherhood might have gotten stronger with Maxson leading them, but they have lost the very thing that was the foundation to their rise to power. The foundation that Lyons laid when he decided to help the people of the wasteland. Their fall is inevitable. But, hey. As long as their here, I'll have some fun on the Prydwen.

    • 538 posts
    May 19, 2017 12:31 AM EDT

    Lyons was a solid person, I do miss her. But I agree! I downloaded a mod that cleans up the Prydwen so it looks a little more presentable because the Brotherhood is legitmately fun to side with. Like I said, I really enjoy the Brotherhood conceptually. They inspire me to make art and poetry. Neither the Institute nor the Railroad have done that for me. I think that part of enjoying something means understanding it's flaws and how they contribute to its overall beauty. The Brotherhood inspires strong emotional responses in people, and what is art but the expression of emotions? They inspire, for better or for worse.