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Does Fallout 4 need a karma system?

  • Paul
    • 773 posts
     
    March 1, 2016 8:07 AM EST

    Interesting video here (thanks to Chris D for posting it first) about whether a karma system would help make Fallout 4 into a better roleplay experience.

    Do you think it would help if Bethesda were to add in karma (whether by patch or DLC)? Or is it something that foundered on the horns of a voiced protagonist? Discuss here.

  • Deleted Member
     
    March 1, 2016 9:51 AM EST
    Hmm, I think the karma system is inherently flawed because it can't take into consideration the motive of the player or the roleplay. If there were more axis, they maybe, but I feel a characters roleplay and alignment should be left to the players.
  • Chris
    • 1441 posts
     
    March 1, 2016 12:09 PM EST

    Also, as one commenter posted, the world ain't black and white. A person commiting morally wrong acts could rationalze as doing something good. Take for instance Death Note's Light Yagami, True, he was using a supernatural notebook to kill people, criminals at first, then anyone who threatened his reign as "god of the new world" but he believed he would be making the world a crime free place. Or the Justice Lords, an AU version of the Justice League. True, they;ve made Earth into a totalitarin world, but it is free of crime, and quite clean

  • Zonnonn
    • 585 posts
     
    March 1, 2016 3:15 PM EST

    My opinion for all RPGs is that more detail is always good. While I never thought karma was a top priority in previous Fallout titles, it was still always there for me to worry about, and helped me shape my character into more than a walking gun.

  • Benjamin Swanson
    • 3 posts
     
    March 1, 2016 9:06 PM EST

    Honestly, karma doesn't affect gameplay too much, bu it is good for roleplaying. The main fact about karma is that it doesn't punish you when your karma goes down, you just feel either like "The Great Destroyer" or "Really Bad After Killing That Guy" depending on how you play. I think karma is better off in the base game, having something so simple as DLC is just unreasonable. I don't think Bethesda wants a repeat of Oblivion's Horse Armor, and neither does anyone. The whole "Do We Need It?" question can be answered with one word. No. We don't, but we also don't need V.A.T.S, we never really needed any of the things that make Fallout Fallout. Imagine if V.A.T.S had never been added to Fallout, if combat stayed as it always was, point-shoot-reload until the target dies. Would Fallout be so different? Would the world this game creates be any the lesser for never having seen this feature? Not really. Fallout would have a less creative community (Character Building does some cool stuff with V.A.T.S), but the game as a whole would still be great. But then again, the same can be said about laser weapons, and power armor, and crafting, and all the great perks, like Mysterious Stranger or Party Boy that we all know and love. The question that needs answering is not as much "Is it necessary?", but more, "Is the game better for having it?" I think it is. The advantages that role-play and character building communities get is astounding. Without Karma, and the level of depth it brings, Fallout would be eerily similar to an open-world COD, and I think we can all agree that we're better off without that in the world.

  • Chris
    • 1441 posts
     
    March 1, 2016 9:21 PM EST

    I like COD, though I haven't REALLY liked it since B02. I mean, Advanced Warfare was pretty good, but I jist didn't like it as much

  • Albino
    • 179 posts
     
    March 2, 2016 1:21 AM EST

    I always thought Karma was needlessly tacked on before, so I really don't see the need to add it back.

  • Chris
    • 1441 posts
     
    March 2, 2016 1:25 AM EST

    Most people liked having a morality system in RPGs, especially open world ones. Like KOTOR, 

  • Teccam
    • 189 posts
     
    March 2, 2016 1:45 AM EST

    Yeah, I think this is the core of the issue. What's the point in a karma system when the dialog system so inherently limits roleplay and character freedom? This is one of the big flaws of FO4 that really keeps it from standing up to prior entries in the series for me. It got the gameplay just fine, but that's only a tiny piece of why most of us like Fallout. The dialogue, the freedom, the intricate system balancing perks, SPECIAL, and skills all together ... These are all diminished noticeably. Adding karma would just feel like a cosmetic change unless they revise the dialog -- both the writing itself, and the system (the wheel, limited options, maybe even the voiced protagonist).

    Some might say karma was cosmetic anyways, but I think it at least served as a benchmark system that would help gate off thresholds for certain options -- quests, relationships, etc. Instead of just saying "evil characters get discounts with this shady merchant", it could be "characters below x karma score get discounts with this shady merchant." The reference tool makes it easy to plan characters, and also can be super useful for mod authors to use as a reference for adding new content.

  • SpookyBorn2021
    • 1467 posts
     
    March 2, 2016 1:48 AM EST

    I think there are so many different flaws in the Roleplaying system of Fallout 4, that Karma shouldn't even come into it yet. At the moment, there are dozens of things that are broken (imo) that fixing this tiny thing wouldn't matter much.

  • Chris
    • 1441 posts
     
    March 2, 2016 2:07 AM EST

    I kind of like the perk system, it allows you to see the perks anytime, so you know how much of X skill or Stat you need

  • Golden Fool
    • 627 posts
     
    March 2, 2016 2:12 AM EST

    That's the interface not the system itself.

  • Deleted Member
     
    March 2, 2016 3:35 AM EST

    Hi guys, FO4 is an RPG so of course it would benefit from personal karma, I personally like to be neutral good, but of course there are others who like all combinations of the above, do I think they will add it as a patch or DLC no chance, thanks to the bloody voiced protagonist, your characters "definition" has been set by the folk that made the game, bit of a cheek really don't you think

  • Bryn
    • 1913 posts
     
    March 2, 2016 11:10 AM EST

    I hated the old system, as said by Gopher on YouTube, the old level up system was the simplest and dumbest system ever... I mean, let's just take Fallout 3: By leveling up small guns just cause I wanted to be good with pistols... I've become a shotgun master. Why? Shotguns and handguns are nothing alike... 

    In New Vegas by simply leveling science to be good in hacking... I became a nuclear physicist and now understand multiple types of science... WHAT?!

  • Bryn
    • 1913 posts
     
    March 2, 2016 11:16 AM EST

    To me, karma was lame always. It was just a music cue and made the game act like a scolding or overly praiseful parent... You took that item without paying, bad man!... Despite we just nab whatever wasn't nailed down everywhere before especially from those we kill or were dead (what makes these people so special? They're NPC's?! So are the raiders!!!) You helped this child find a home with his aunt, good job!...even though I did it clearly for the experience gain and monetary reward... Matter of fact I forgot the boy existed for 3 in game months... How did he survive? He must not need someone to look after him, game you're full of shit....

  • Chris
    • 1441 posts
     
    March 2, 2016 12:49 PM EST

    Well, Raiders are inherently marked as evil, as they murder, pillage, rape, do drugs, and all sorts of bad things like that. If an item is marked as unowned, then I you can just yoink it, so maybe its unowned?

  • Benjamin Swanson
    • 3 posts
     
    March 4, 2016 1:26 AM EST

    My personal favorite thieving experiences were in Oblivion, where if you sweet talked someone enough, they just don't care what you did, you could actually MURDER people within inches of them, and they just went,  "oh, how unfortunate." and went back to whatever they were doing. 

  • Benjamin Swanson
    • 3 posts
     
    March 4, 2016 2:00 AM EST

    I didn't like AW, it was too bunny-hop simulator" for my taste, BO3 is okay, but I prefer BO2 or even MW3, I honestly preferred Ghosts to AW. DM me if you agree or disagree, and we can talk without clogging this thread.